OT: Backstraps Anyone???

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I posted this over on the OT forum but I know many don't usually read it and are deer hunters as well so here is the LINK if you want to read more...

In keeping with this forum, I will say that our deer camp is on 380 acres of private Michigan northern thick woodlands and owned by a friend. We take my FORD 8N and my Dearborn Disc Harrow up there twice a year to work the food plots in the spring and fall. We don't use bait as far as bagged corn, beets, or carrots, never have, and now it is illegal to bait in that area due to CWD and such. We only plant rye and wheat mostly on the plots as food plots are legal. The cabin is only heated by the fireplace and we use well water. Somewhat rustic...


Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
DEER SEASON

 

[Ultradog MN]

Good post Tim.
This is a C/P of a post I made on a hunting forum yesterday.

The Hail Mary Doe

Well, the gun season ended yesterday. We stayed at it - about 70 hours in the stand over the course of the 3 weekends. Only saw one small buck the whole season. But lots of small does and a lot of fawns this year. I had a doe permit, Mike was bucks only. Mike had family stuff to do yesterday afternoon so we could only hunt till about 9 am, then drive the 2 hours home. I figured it was useless but went out anyway. Hadn't even seen anything for the last 2 days. But by golly, about 8:30 a decent doe and 2 fawns walked out. I had to make a snap shot on her before she went behind the brush again. But the bullet was true and she ran about 100 yards and toppled over. Hooray!! She's no trophy but towards the end it sure was looking like tag soup for us this year.

 

[Del Huebner]

Since my old wooden tree stands are not safe anymore ( fell through the ladder on one last year ) I no longer bow hunt. Waiting for the gun season to open and will hunt with muzzleloader from my portable blind. My 8N is my ATV and I can drive it to within 100 yards of my blind. Lots of deer on the trail cam but no nice bucks.

 

[R Geiger]

I got a cd with a song about hunting camp in upper Michigan, funnier than heck.

 

[Kenockee 8N]

R Geiger,

You must have the Yoopers CD... Second Week of Deer Camp...


As for deer season for me, it has been my slowest year ever. I saw only a few deer all of bow season and even fewer in gun season. I just moved to a place I can hunt on my own land now and have lots of pictures on my trail cameras but all at night.

Next year I will be using my '52 8N to do some clearing and working of the ground for a food plot.

 

[Steve Oller]

Im curious, if a food plot isn't baiting what is it?

 

[Kenockee 8N]

Steve,

I don't know what the rules are for you but in Michigan, we had a "scare" with CWD a few years back and they outlawed all baiting for a few years. CWD is a disease that is transferred from one animal to another by nose to nose contact.

Bait would be any grain, mineral, salt, fruit, vegetable or other food material that lures in deer. Food plots in Michigan are considered like a farm field and not bait. However, you cannot put a food plot on public land.
Basically what they were and are trying to stop people from putting a giant pile of carrots, apples, corn, sugar beets, beans, pumpkins, ect... out for the deer to all congregate at where they could touch noses. If you are in an area where they allow baiting, they want you to spread the bait out over a large area and they limit the amount of bait you can put out at one time and location.

All of this being said, what happens when apples fall from an apple tree? I don't think they get spread out over a large area. I get what they are trying to do, but also think that deer have plenty of opportunity to be in close contact with each other in naturally occurring situations.

 

[steve19438]

in PA if it does NOT have "roots" it is bait. at least that is my understanding.

 

[BlackThumbHomesteader]

I wish I had deer out here. Had a herd of 14 get hunted/predated(predatored?) down to 2 over the past three years.

What I DO have are 40 irritating elk that I can spit on from my porch because they're so bold.

 

[HFJ]

"Im curious, if a food plot isn't baiting what is it?"

here's the baiting rules from the michigan hunting:

Baiting and Feeding Prohibitions for Deer and Elk
Bait means a substance composed of grains, minerals, salt, fruits, vegetables, hay,
or other food materials, which may lure, entice, or attract deer as an aid in hunting.
Baiting is illegal in the core CWD area (DMU 333) and the CWD Management
Zone (DMU 419), As well as DMUs 001, 004, 060, 068, and 452.
In the rest of Michigan, the following rules apply:
• Baiting may occur only from Sept. 15 - Jan. 1.
• Bait volume at any hunting site cannot exceed two gallons.
• Bait dispersal must be over a minimum 10-foot by 10-foot area.
• Bait must be scattered directly on the ground. It can be scattered by any
means, including mechanical spin-cast feeders, provided that the spin-cast
feeder does not distribute more than the maximum volume allowed.
• To minimize exposure of deer to diseases that may be present, the DNR
recommends not placing bait or feed repeatedly at the same point on the
ground, and only baiting when actively hunting.
Feed means a substance composed of grain, mineral, salt, fruit, vegetable, hay, or
other food material, that may attract deer or elk for any reason other than hunting.
Feeding of any kind is illegal in the core CWD area (DMU 333), the CWD
management zone (DMU 419) and DMU 487.
In the rest of Michigan, the following rules apply:
• Feed volume at any residence cannot exceed two gallons.
• Feed may be no more than 100 yards from a residence on land owned or
possessed by that person.
• Feed must be scattered on the ground. It can be scattered by any means,
including mechanical spin-cast feeders, provided that the spin-cast feeder
does not distribute more than the maximum volume allowed.
• Feed must be at least 100 yards from any area accessible to cattle, goats,
sheep, new world camelids, bison, swine, horses, or captive cervidae.

[i:9bc0876883][b:9bc0876883]Food plots[/b:9bc0876883] — naturally occurring foods, standing agricultural crops, or food placed
as a result of using normal agricultural practices are not considered to be bait or
feed. Constructing or maintaining any food plot or any artificial garden to attract
wildlife on public land is prohibited.[/i:9bc0876883]

long story short, food plots are perfectly legal on private land. which is a good thing, since i have one here

 

[HFJ]

... from the michigan hunting guide*.

 

[Ultradog MN]

We can not bait deer here. But we are one of
the few remaining states that still allows
baiting bear.
We can have deer/wildlife plots here. The
reasoning is that it provides food for many
types of wildlife all through the growing
season.

 

[Steve Oller]

Kinda like fishing with explosives.

 

[HFJ]

"We can not bait deer here"

in michigan, it comes and goes. when bovine tuberculosis was first found, they banned baiting statewide for several years. now, it's back to being banned in the TB hot zone, and the CWD zone too, and not in the rest of the state. next year? no one will know till the new guide is published around the 1st of august. i could call our DNR here many things - one thing i won't call them is predictable. they certainly caught me offguard this year by allowing the use of (some) modern rifles to hunt where i am. formerly called the shotgun zone, only shotguns, black powder rifles, and handguns .35 or larger firing straight walled cartridges. now, that .35 or larger straight walled cartridge is legal in a rifle too. i still use my old beat up 12 gauge with buckshot.

i personally dislike hunting, but like eating venison. for years, i've tried to convince them to come up here and cut their own throats. it hasn't worked yet, but hey, i'll keep trying - i'm a starry-eyed optimist.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Well, a wise man once said, "...there have always been hunters and gatherers, but to not believe in hunting is unnatural..." I am a hunter and believe in everything it stands for. Yes, there are many slobs out there ( note I don't call them 'hunters' ) always have been, can't get away from that fact and I have much respect for the DNR too. They make sound decisions based on scientific data not whimsical political pressure. This years' rule changes are perfect examples. In our DMU, 487, with the standard deer combo/restricted license, you can take an antlerless, yes, and antlerless with no special tag needed, or a buck with 3 points on a side and a buck with 4 points on one side -total of two in any combination. The discovery last summer in Ingham and Shiawassee Counties of CWD allowed the DNR to put the restriction sin place there as well on baiting. Baiting issue will go on as well. It is a multi-million dollar business and when they started banning and implementing restrictions, it PO'd a lot of people, mainly gas stations and Stuckey stops who buy in bulk and sell at marked up prices. The Michigan 2016 Hunting and Trapping Rule book defines BAITING AND FEEDING of wildlife -two separate issues. Baiting was started when city guys, unlucky 'hunters', who are strapped down to a desk 51 weeks a year head up north for a week of wife/girlfriend/kids free beer drinking card playing hell raising let off steam fun with guys couldn't get a buck and figured they needed a quicker way to bring the deer to them instead of doing their homework and pre-season scouting, siting in their guns, and such. These are the same bunch who will be target practicing at 10:00 on opening day morning in deer camp because they got cold and came back to came get warm and/or they took a shot and missed. Oh, yeah, they will also blast up stop signs and no trespassing signs and deer crossing signs and private property signs and mailboxes as well. So, yeah, I support my DNR and all law enforcement agencies.

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

All plants have 'roots'...grasses, brassicas, turnips, carrots, beets, et al. I know they mean to ban stuff like 50# bags of apples, carrots, corn and sugar beets. The ironic part of the Michigan scene is that bags of that stuff are sold everywhere, even in the places where baiting and feeding is illegal. How do they get away with that? The MI DNR hasn't yet figured out how to completely ban the sale in those areas that do and avoid a lawsuit from those retailers. One thing you can bet on for sure is that if the products are being sold in baiting and feeding banned areas, it most certainly is being used there illegally as well, probably on private land mostly.

Tim

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Well stated, Jerry. My rye plots provide food for every type of wildlife out there. I watched turkey, partridge, and woodcock, but no bear which is unusual, come in to feed every day while out there all day as well as nuthatches, bluejays, woodpeckers, and other critters. Years like this one where the acorn crop was non-existent, the rye will help them get thru the tough Michigan winters. The spread of CWD, TB, and EHD has been documented to be spread because of the close proximity of deer feeding together on huge piles of bait and sharing saliva and other bodily fluids. The Michigan Hunting & Trapping Digest states that baiting in any one (legal) area not exceed two gallons and must be spread out over a 10-foot by 10-foot area. Food plots fall into the farmland category and do not qualify for this restriction because they are mostly planted on over a much larger area, if not acres of land. I have seen areas in the past on both private land and state land where there were literally dump trucks of apples, corn, beets, and/or carrots pile dup for drawing deer in like magnets. Private 'hunt clubs; especially were into this practice big time because they wanted their city boy cliental to be successful and return next year to spend their big lawyer/doctor dollars on them. In my opinion, the DNR should have stepped in a long time ago and headed off this disaster.

Tim

 

[HFJ]

[i:b0db08ca18][b:b0db08ca18]"Private 'hunt clubs; especially were into this practice big time because they wanted their city boy cliental to be successful and return next year to spend their big lawyer/doctor dollars on them. In my opinion, the DNR should have stepped in a long time ago and headed off this disaster."[/b:b0db08ca18][/i:b0db08ca18]

and if and when they DO ban such private hunt clubs, where the game is imported and fenced in, i might start respecting the DNR. it is because of one such club that we now have the CWD issue. it's very difficult for me to agree with your assessment of the DNR's worthiness, tim, as long as they continue to allow this to go on. the only reason *I* can think of that it's acceptable is MONEY. i find it difficult to attribute the continued existence of such businesses to "sound decisions based on scientific data," as u put it.

 

[Kenockee 8N]

What I don't like about baiting is people seem to be able to carry multiple 50# bags out into the woods with them but can't carry the empty bags back out!

 

[HFJ]

[i:d8ab036e7c][b:d8ab036e7c]"One thing you can bet on for sure is that if the products are being sold in baiting and feeding banned areas, it most certainly is being used there illegally as well, probably on private land mostly."[/b:d8ab036e7c][/i:d8ab036e7c]

on this we agree. i asked the owner of a place that sold bait all thru the banned years why he did it. his answer was that "i don't have any way of knowing where people are using this stuff."

ironically, i also remember him commiserating with one of his customers who was nailed, not once but twice, for violating the bait ban.

 

[HFJ]

[i:ff8e4777bf][b:ff8e4777bf]"What I don't like about baiting is people seem to be able to carry multiple 50# bags out into the woods with them but can't carry the empty bags back out!"[/b:ff8e4777bf][/i:ff8e4777bf]

amen to this. don't even get me started on this topic, i could rant forever about it. i have [i:ff8e4777bf]major[/i:ff8e4777bf] issues with anyone who feels entitled to just leave trash laying around.

 

[Kirk-NJ]

Here's the before photo of a nice shooter buck on trail cam.

Kirk

 

[Kirk-NJ]

Here is the after photo of the buck. Shot in Ohio. My son sent this to me. Hopefully he passed along some of those genes before his demise. My son has the chance to hunt this property and asked me if I wanted to go.

Kirk