OT: Self Driving Cadillacs - Yikes!

[JML755]

Read an article in the Detroit Free Press about Cadillac's Super Cruise. It scared the bejeezus out of me:
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2017/09/29/cadillac-hands-free-super-cruise/715553001/

some excerpts:
"The system won’t let the driver completely tune out. It monitors the driver’s face for open eyes and to make sure you look out the windshield reasonably frequently — no napping or reading on your iPhone behind the wheel.."

So what's the point? If you've got to pay attention, then......PAY ATTENTION and you may as well DRIVE!

"If the driver completely ignores Super Cruise when it tries to get his or her attention, the system decides there’s been a medical emergency, slows to a stop, turns on the emergency flashers and tells GM’s OnStar service to call emergency vehicles. [b:a8607814de]Coming to a stop in the middle of a highway is less than ideal,....[/b:a8607814de]"

No, really? :roll: Can you imagine people barreling along at 75 or 80 with a car at a dead stop in their lane? Sure, you should be in control of your vehicle and aware at all times but I can imagine dozens of Caddy's with Super Cruise stopped on the Interstates when their drivers fall asleep in the middle of the night. Hey Jon, watch out for them!

"Super Cruise doesn’t recognize traffic cones, but it can follow lane markings through [b:a8607814de][i:a8607814de]some[/i:a8607814de][/b:a8607814de] detours in construction zones."
Ok, what about the others?


"[b:a8607814de]It’s also blind to semis carrying wide loads that extend outside their lane, [/b:a8607814de]but keeps the car centered in its lane when passing normal-sized vehicles." :shock:

Nah, you never see that on the highway! :roll:

Call me a cynic but I think that a self-driving vehicle is a solution looking for a problem. They'll NEVER be able to program a system that takes into account all the possible scenarios of driving and select the correct reaction. A human can't do that ALL the time. That's part of the reason we have accidents. (Granted, in many cases, accidents are caused by actions that an autonomous vehicle would NOT do.)

Plus, paying attention means being alert and ready for the unexpected. If you're relaxing and cruising along and the system suddenly flashes and says "HERE'S THE WHEEL", you'll first have to become alert, figure out WHY you've got the con, then react in the proper manner. Meanwhile, you've just crashed into that piece of debris that flew off a truck or tire that came over the median or .... (insert your situation).

The system most certainly wont work in snowy or icy conditions so once we get to fully autonomous vehicles we'll have a bunch of drivers who are not used to actually driving in GOOD conditions let alone POOR conditions. It'll be like having roads full of brand new teen-age drivers who are new to to actually controlling the vehicle.

It's the millenials pushing for this, along with shill reporters like Mark Phelan who are beholden to the auto industry and wouldn't dare write a negative comment. If they did, the execs wouldn't return their calls and they wouldn't get to test drive all the fancy new cars ahead of everyone else.

:lol:

 

[moresmoke]

They assume all highways have legible
lane markers...

 

[ss55]

That could lead to so many jokes, so many many jokes.

 

[TomH in PA]

It doesn't have to be perfect. It only has to be better than most drivers (which isn't hard).

 

[Leroy]

And you are not trying to park in your garage.

 

[kcm.MN]

(quoted from post at 16:14:35 10/04/17) It doesn't have to be perfect. It only has to be better than most drivers (which isn't hard).

...Lemme get this straight - a system that chooses to hand over control of a vehicle moving at 70+MPH to someone who likely isn't even aware of what's happening around them.......and that would be better than "most drivers"?

 

[JD Seller]

Well I hope everyone Loves "Big Brother". First off your going to 100% traceable. Then your turning your life and safety over to a computer/satellite system. Not for me!!!

 

[Stephen Newell]

I don't trust electronic devices at all so I don't like it. On the other hand when people are driving they have everything else on their mind but their driving so I don't know. If they are going to do something like this I think it would be enough to have some kind of alarm to wake someone up if they are approaching a situation which needs attention.

 

[robgIN]

as poor as Cadillacs quality is overall, someone actually trusting this scares the crap out of me. There are already too many features added to vehicles that people think
makes them invincible and able to drive 70 mph in thick fog on ice, no one has any common sense anymore. I felt safer driving a car with bias tires and 4 wheel manual
drum brakes back in my younger days than I do now with all the distracted maniacs out there today.

 

[kcm.MN]

There's only one way I ever see this kind of technology truly working, and that's ONLY if every single vehicle on the road is using a similar computerized system, and they are all talking to each other, and there is no way that the entire system can go awry or be hacked into. ...Anyone ever see that coming in the future? I sure don't!

 

[Dean]

Yeah, but it does not text or talk on the cell phone....

Dean

 

[Josh-nhihguy]

There are so many things to say about this
subject. As a full time truck driver and as
all of you know there are infinite
possibilities that could happen. Human
reaction can be fast or slow depending on
the situation. What happens when the
computer doesn't react fast enough? Who is
at fault for that? Depends on situation.
And an area where many precedents will get
set.

As a more abstract line of thinking, I
halfway blame Hollywood and the like. As
the movies flirt with new ideas with
technology (and other aspects), people
expect these things to become reality. Cell
phones, wireless-everythings, flying cars,
self driving cars, robots, AI, fun desk
jobs... Ha you get my point. Obviously this
has been going on for decades. And we are
just a part of a long history of
technological advances. They always create
new problems and I guess it'll probably get
better and better eventually.

We don't like it. I can't imagine anything
better than my wife by my side scooted
right next to me in my pickup driving
around the country side waving at neighbors
checking fields while Merle is hanging out
the passenger window ready to bark at any
animal that's not him.

I like to MANUALLY drive my vehicles. If
something goes wrong then there's nobody to
blame but me. But I do see the other side
of the argument where many people who are
pathetic and refuse to learn to responsibly
handle their PRIVILEGE of driving are all
for it and will probably be less accidents
and tickets for them in the long run.

It feels like we will inevitably be forced
to conform to this change in the long run
and that's not at all appealing, in my
opinion. It violates our upbringing of
responsibility for our own actions and
honestly I worry that my own future
children will never get to experience the
same way.

In my opinion.

Josh

 

[donjr]

To be honest, it might be (as much as I don't trust something that drives itself) a good thing because most of the askholes that
drive Caddies, Mercedes, BMW's and Audi's seem to be perfect jackasses that are always in a big hurry, and a SDV just might slow
them down a bit.........

 

[jeffcat]

Not to be a pain. This is another good reason why YOU need a dashcam.
If it is very obvious what is going on in front of you and that
footage could save your bunns.

 

[Thomasthetankengine]

How the heck do you convince a
self driving pickup to drive
into a field and back up to a
hay wagon?

 

[kcm.MN]

(quoted from post at 19:21:57 10/04/17) How the heck do you convince a
self driving pickup to drive
into a field and back up to a
hay wagon?

If you've got a self-driving vehicle that you're using in the hay field, YOU DON'T NEED TO BE FARMING!! **ROFL**

 

[47fivewindow]

I'm still surprised automatic transmissions caught on.

 

[Sprint 6]

What's to be scared of? It's only built by a company that forgot how to build engines that won't burn all it's oil between changes. Or the
company that forgot how to build automatic transmissions that shift good, or last 100K.

 

[ss55]

That was my first reaction, self driving luxury cars can't be any worse than most luxury car drivers.

 

[Ian Beale]

At the top of the Small Dead Animals site

"Where the self-driving car meets the uncontrolled railway crossing. "

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/

 

[JML755]

(quoted from post at 06:33:56 10/05/17) At the top of the Small Dead Animals site

"Where the self-driving car meets the uncontrolled railway crossing. "

Yup, that's one of them situations where the software programmers go "oh we didn't think of that".

 

[4520BW]

I thought I seen a self driving caddy yesterday but once a passed it I seen blue hair below the steering wheel.

 

[vista2016]

I've got to admit, some of the arguments in this thread are funny. You truly think that if they can develop a car to drive itself, follow lane markers, etc. that they would actually design the car to slow to a stop in the MIDDLE of the highway instead of following the lane marker and pulling off to the side.
Everyone says how much they hate electronics, but I don't think they understand how consistent and repeatable electronics are. You simply don't like them because when they're broken you can't fix them.
How many of you fly? Do you know the amount of electronics in an airplane? Autopilot? That's been working for years.
Self guided missiles, same concept. The list can go on and on.
I remember hearing countless stories from grandparents about old vehicles and tractors that always had to be "fooled" with on occasions so they would run.
Put yourself back 100+ years ago when the first motorized vehicles were being introduced, I bet everyone said the heck with them I'm keeping my horse. Now look where we are.
I'm not advocating for the SDV, they still have a long way to go, but simply think about some of the points you make first.

 

[W_B]

(quoted from post at 02:19:50 10/05/17) There's only one way I ever see this kind of technology truly working, and that's ONLY if every single vehicle on the road is using a similar computerized system, and they are all talking to each other, and there is no way that the entire system can go awry or be hacked into. ...Anyone ever see that coming in the future? I sure don't!

My company had a "hacker" that works for GM do a presentation on autonomous vehicles and security issues. He basically said there is no good solution as the more code they write the more they are vulnerable to hacking. He said one issue is the car companies have been going to wireless control of vehicle functions instead of "running copper" and that is an avenue for someone breaking in and gaining control of the vehicle. He said one make, I think Jeep Grand Cherokee even has electronic emergency brakes! Showed a short video where him and his buddy hacked into a car and took over some functions. He also said he doesn't see much changing on car security issues in the near future.

 

[Jegs]

I've been in the automotive industry for 22 years, self driving cars are coming and that's that. I gotta say that I'm all for it, most people and I mean most, have no clue how to drive anymore. It cracks me up when someone says I'm going to turn the car on ... I've always started the car fired it up, started the engine, in my book you turn on an oven, a light etc, you start a car!

A car nowadays is purely a means to get from here to there without missing anything, they promote office software, hands free phone and texting, heck you can buy movie tickets from your car without talking on the phone! Driving is a lost art, which is all you should be doing behind the wheel, I've always preached to my kids, "what are you doing when your in your car?" And they answer, "driving Dad, we know".

The point is driving is as dangerous now as it has ever been, a car that can drive itself, by the time it's available to most people (15years) will dramatically reduce accidents, I guarantee you ... A computer controlled car will drive better than most of today's humans. C'mon, they relied on autopilot to get guys to the moon in the 60's, the auto manufactures will get this done and they will do it right. I see the biggest problem being what are the states and municipalities going to do without traffic fine money? They will have to get it from somewhere keep an eye on those taxes and fees. Oh, insurance rates would go down too (yeah right) just my two cents.

 

[rustyfarmall]

I know a few folks, well let's just say the highways would be much safer if those folks were all in self-driving cars.

 

[JML755]

(quoted from post at 07:28:34 10/05/17)
[/b]

In reply to some of your comments:
" [b:c2996416c5]You truly think that if they can develop a car to drive itself, follow lane markers, etc. that they would actually design the car to slow to a stop in the MIDDLE of the highway instead of following the lane marker and pulling off to the side.[/b:c2996416c5]"
Yes, the engineer said they "actually" did just that. It was not speculation on my part.
"You simply don't like them [i:c2996416c5](electronics)[/i:c2996416c5] because when they're broken you can't fix them."
No, I just believe simpler is better in many cases. Also, there are good electronic designs and there are poor electronic designs and automakers are not known for their robust designs. With them, cost is king.

 

[kcm.MN]

Some of us were raised on the premise, "[i:7e9aeaba48]If you want it done right, do it yourself[/i:7e9aeaba48]". It's getting more and more difficult to do everything myself, but the more time goes by, the more I feel I "need" to do for myself....just so it gets done right!

For years and from all parts of the country I've heard reports on how employers couldn't find "good help". Heck, now many of them can't even fill positions (GOOD-paying jobs!) cause so many people just don't want to work anymore.

I don't trust electronics, but I don't trust people even more!! And THAT'S where I think things are eventually going to go south for us. My fear is that "humanity" (what a laugh!) is headed towards being SO inept (in general) that technology will have no choice but to take over control for us. .....So do you think they'd keep us? ...Like pets, maybe? :shock:

 

[rustyfarmall]

Pretty soon, the most secure vehicle will be a '48 Chevy with 3 on the tree and the starter on the floor. Today's generation of thieves will never figure it out.

 

[kcm.MN]

(quoted from post at 07:43:26 10/05/17)
Pretty soon, the most secure vehicle will be a '48 Chevy with 3 on the tree and the starter on the floor. Today's generation of thieves will never figure it out.

ROFL

I think you may be right!

 

[olgentdc]

Sounds like GM JUNK

 

[CenTex Farmall]

I made a living flying airliners. Yes, autopilots have been around for decades but you know what?, they fail and they often fail in complex ways. That's why they still have two fully trained pilots up front. Many times I've had to "take over" when "george" quit or couldn't hang in there. Usually they were pretty straightforward faiures but I've seen them do some weird things.

In order for an autopilot to functional, *all* the inputs have to be working properly. There are primary, secondary and often tertiary layers at work to ensure safety. Aircraft are maintained to a very high standard, internally anyways.

From what I'm seeing on the self driving cars they barely have the primary layer working. What about icing conditions? blowing sand? Sleet? Road salt?

They're a solution looking for a problem and are going to end up being a massive headache.

 

[CenTex Farmall]

From what i've read so far they are totally ignoring the needs of rural customers, such as me pulling a four row shredder behind a pickup truck: Oncoming lane clear I can overhang into it, somebody coming?, now scoot over and overhang the ditch, *but* don't wipe out mailboxes, culverts, etc. It's all in the timing and when to zig and when to zag.

Not long ago I was going down a one lane back road and a haybine comes around a curve and is taking up the full width of the road. My solution? *speed up* in order to pull over with good timing onto the edge of a driveway. Plenty of room now. Everyone waves and then keeps on down road. Would a self driving car think to do that? Did I mention the steep ditches on each side?

Can they drive on a gravel road with three tracks in it?

 

[CenTex Farmall]

Two years ago we had unusually intense rains in October that caused flooding. On a paved, formerly gravel, road near here a pair of six foot culverts washed out. The water undercut them and when they got loose it pushed them right out of the way and they got stuck in a tree line. Now the road has about a 12 foot washed out gap. The water is running *level with the road*.

Of course any human driving down the road is going to see the water rushing along in the creek and then level with the road and then see the culverts washed out to the side and correctly recognize a deadly situation.

They are saying so far that the SDC's can not even "see" a pothole and drive around it. What happens when the SDC comes upon our washed out culverts while human passenger is playing on phone and not paying attention?

When the water went down the gap was about 10 foot deep.