OT: Teaching how to fish...

gahorN

Well-known Member
...
I’m a great believer in the old adage of ‘teach a man to fish’ rather than feed him every time he gets hungry. ...

Not picking on you, Bruce (VA) ... but just opening the dangerous topic....
I have a couple of friends who love to use that slogan "Teach a man to fish..."...

Many of those guys seem to be the good-ol'-converative-boys who think that slogan absolves them of any/all responsibility to their fellow-man... (while they faithfully attend church...or at least send their kids to Sunday-school while they/themselves either stay in bed or are out in the bass-boat "worshipping".)

I call it B. S. ...though, ... especially when the "fishing pond" is devoid of life like it is more and more these days. It 's just pure B.S. unless you really get out of bed and go teach someone....which MEANS spending your own valuable time and money to contribute something meaningful to helping your fellow man improve his lot in life.

(stepping back down off the soap-box...)
 
These discussions can be risky, but -- I think Bruce
does a great job of teaching tractor maintenance.
 

If my man fellow man makes no effort at all to improve his lot in life, then I be damned if I will help him at all. Some people just want everything handed to them.
 
That's an interesting perspective. Taken in that context, I understand what you're saying. And, in a broader context, I've witnessed the point you are making.


But, if we limit the analogy to the topic at hand (troubleshooting a tractor problem) I think "teaching a man to fish" is appropriate.

Probably 75% of the posts here are from folks newbies & 75% of those questions are pretty routine. "My tractor won't start" can have a dozen correct responses.....jump the ignition switch, turn the gas on, clean the battery cables, etc, etc. Rather than have the newbie run from pillar to post checking out all the individual possibilities (and learning nothing in the process) I'd rather tell them how to troubleshoot the basic fuel/spark issues.
 
Got to be smart enough to fish a lake with fish, any fool can throw a line in a dead pond and then complain it doesn't work and that he was screwed over by the Man. Helping your fellow man should only go so far, if he doesn't have the desire to make it, there is nothing you or all our tax dollars can do for him, let him sink.
 
The fishing opener is next weekend here.
But I rarely go till a couple of weekends later.
Need to get my license and I think the license on the boat is due also. Boat is good for 3 years here.
My next door neighbors came from Vietnam.
The boy was born here of course. He's about 15. He comes over sometimes and asks about engines and changing oil and the like. Knows more about EFI than I do. He's still trying to get his head around the notion of Torque X RPM.
I think that when he gets it he'll like it.
Had him pretty well awed when I was putting new pistons in. He knows how engines work but had never seen the inside of one.
He wants a Honda Civic real bad. I don't know if his dad will let him have one when he turns 16 but he sure knows already exactly how he'll have it decked out when he gets one.
In the past I've talked to him and his old man about going up to the lake and fishing one of these days. Pretty sure they would go.
This thread is what I needed to make it happen this year. Gonna bring it up again soon.
Teach the kid - maybe his dad too - how to fish.
Thanks
 
Build a man a fire, and he will stay warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire, and he will stay warm the rest of his life.
 
i like bruces answers,sometimes a mit edgey,but very helpful,he's already saved me a couple hundred dollars in the short time i've been here,thanks bruce.tom
 
I’m jumping in here pretty much knowing that I’m going to end up being a sacrificial lamb, but I’ll forge ahead and attempt to speak on behalf of all the guys who month after month, year after year, post the same repetitious questions about basic, elementary problems and then leave here bloody when they don’t ”get it” the first time. Most of these guys are wanting to “learn how to fish”, but, like me, they are starting from such a basis of ignorance that the learning curve is very protracted.

Most of these guys, like me, did not grow up learning how to set ignition points, kit carburetors, grind valves or change out seals and bearings. I had no one to learn from: even my Dad, who could build or fix damn near anything out of wood or steel, and who had two N tractors, knew very little about motor mechanics. We had a dairy farm, and between milking twice a day and going to school, I had little time to learn on my own.

In the later lean years simple economics forced me to learn how to do lots of things. I bought Chiltons manuals and learned how to do my own brakes. Chilton also taught me how to replace clutches in my 67 Cutlass and my 65 Falcon, as well as water pumps, steering pumps, etc. For many years I lived in the city, worked in an office, and had no equipment to maintain other than my auto. Now I have a few acres in the country, a couple of tractors and a couple of mowers, but I’m still basically ignorant on many aspects of N mechanics, especially the electrical part, but I try…

I recognize myself in many of the guys who post here; they want to learn, but the discussion on many of these questions---especially the electrical---pretty quickly leave them (us( in the dust.

To complicate matters for a newbie (or a “dumbie”) there are often conflicting responses. A newbie has no idea which poster to trust.

Another complication is that the guys here who know their stuff too often assume a level of understanding that does not exist on the part of the newbie. They tell the newbie to execute a procedure or test assuming he knows what to do and how to do it, or they use jargon or trade terminologies that (we) don’t understand. Really, guys, this stuff is not as intuitive as some of you seem to think it is---you need to speak very slowly. I think I’m correct in assuming that you gurus are here with the intent of conveying helpful information to the more developmentally-challenged who seek your counsel.

Often the newbie is scolded for not referring to the manual; well, here again, that manual can be pretty hard to understand if you ain’t been-there-done-that. Some guys, like me, are pretty much visual: I just about have to see it done.

And now, the biggest complication of all: some of the guys who know this stuff inside and out and who respond to questions simply are not effective communicators (BruceVA, who threw out the idea for this thread, is a notable exception). Whether it’s by mangling the language (purposely or unintentionally) , speaking in code or shorthand, or by the inability to make a point in a straightforward, logical way, some guys fail to convey what they understand so well themselves.

To the newbies, the dumbies, and all those truth-seekers who have had their feelings hurt by the way they got manhandled here, I’ll offer this:
Remember the “Soup Nazi” on Seinfeld? Well, it’s a lot like that here. But all in all, the boys who field your questions here generally serve up a pretty good bowl of soup. Sometimes, though, it will leave a bad taste in your mouth.

Apologies for the lengthy post. You can drum me off of the board now.
 
Some friends and got hold of a cutdown Model A Ford when I was about 14.They were the same age and younger.We had all done farm work.We could handle the milk room after school.We could feed hens, pick eggs.We still had a strong interst in autos.We worked on a neighbors dairy/poulrty farm.I got interested in radio at 12 years old, reading library books.The Ford had a cracked head, we couldnt loosen the head bolts.My dad started them but when he showed us how do something he made sure we did it our selves.Two of my friends have restored Model A Fords now.Four of 5 brother became good mechanics.None us had much education but we had interest in things.When we got are own cars we learned fast.When I see a post by some one who dosent know anything about trouble shooting an ignition I wonder why.I worked for a John Deere dealer, A Ford car dealer,in textile mills.TV service shops,saw mills.I the early 60s got laid off from a Tv shop.Farmer was haying across the street from my house, went to work for him fixing trucks and tractors.It was just part time.When a job came up in a hatchery I took that,It was a 1/4 mile from home Time was 6am to noon so that left me 4 hours in the after noon to work on the dairy farm.How does a young man fail to work on his own car.Did daddy buy him a new one?I bought my first Motors Manual on 3 time payments and bought many Audel books the same way.Built my own house, did the plumbing and wiring.I notice you can explain in simple terms how to repair a starter or generator and it goes right by many people.Some of the posts say that theres been zero effort to learn anything about the problem.First thing I did when I bought a Ford 640 was to buy an owners manual.The farms I worked on had Farmalls.There was a Ford 8n that hever had any problems.I kept it greased and changed the oil.That tractor plowed a long driveway and raked hay all summer. I think many new tractor owners are moochers and dont want to spend money on manuals.
 
An old friend had finished picking his peas, had all he wanted.Asked a neighbor lady if she would like some peas.She said Are they picked and shelled?
 

Great topic.
I was just saying to my wife, "Sometimes I don't know what the He** these guys are talking about!"
Second this Jerry. The only engine repair teaching I had as a kid was a week in Junior High School, (and my engine never did start...)
I have trouble with the search function and trying to locate past answers that would help me.
After an hour of fruitless searching, it's often the solution to just ask the stupid question.
One thought to the Mods of the site: Am I the only one having trouble with the search function and trying to locate past answers that would help me? There is so much valuable information in here, but I can't get at it. How about we set up a Wiki or something? (Wiki - a free online encyclopedia software system that anyone can edit)
 
A true teacher is one who can immediately come down to the level of the student and begin there versus trying too quickly to bring the level of the student up to the level of the teacher. If the teacher throws the book at the student and tells them to go read and understand this first and then come back to me will likely not hear from the student again.
 
I think one should attempt to teach your fellow man to fish but they have to want to learn to fish.

If they can't learn won't learn or simply don't want to learn, then you are best to stop trying.

One of those casting your pearls before swine things...
 
Have to agree with the people that don't want to learn. Most just want the fish or the answer. They will go to the parts store and buy anything and everything someone told them it might be, but they won't buy a test light or a DVOM and learn how to use it.
Anyone ever asked someone to do a fuel flow test or test for spark with a spark tester and report the results?
 
(quoted from post at 12:19:23 05/07/11)
(quoted from post at 21:03:06 05/06/11) Build a man a fire, and he will stay warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire, and he will stay warm the rest of his life.



Now that just ain't right! :lol:

JK
h, it could be.
Another one from the same book, but somewhat more to the point in this context, even if it does point in the wrong direction:

"After all, when you seek advice from someone it's certainly not because you want them to give it. You just want them to be there while you talk to yourself."


Terry Pratchett, quote from Jingo
 
As a life long rotating shift worker that used email as a main means of communication with the day working engineers and management I found it is a rare person that can consistently communicate technical issues in a clear and understandable manner using exclusively text. More than once I was told my emails were too blunt. The problem of transferring information through text is that there are no visual ques. When I first joined this forum I too thought some were "blunt" but on self reflection I realized the shoe was now on the other foot. It quickly becomes pretty clear who consistently gives good advice even if sarcasm is occasionally injected into the conversation. Thanks to everyone that contributes to us less knowledgeable weekend mechanics.
 
(quoted from post at 17:52:37 05/06/11) These discussions can be risky, but -- I think Bruce
does a great job of teaching tractor maintenance.

i think so too.
 
Yesterday's Tractor Forums

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top