OT. TV outside antenna troubles

[SparepartsTN]

Hello all, this is way outside my skill level, hope someone can help. Eight years ago I bought and installed a
Samsung flat screen Plasma TV, and since I live in a hole out in the country I put a Winegard HD8200U antenna on the
hill with 200 feet of coax to the house. I installed a Winegard AP-8275 pre amp rated at 29db to help the signal per
sellers instruction, then it goes to a splitter with 8 feet of coax to the main TV and 50 feet of coax to the bedroom
analog TV with converter. Everything was fine until a month ago when most of the channels went blank, "weak or no
signal", from 19 channels to 5 channels. When I remove the pre amp from the circuit I get 11 channels. Bought a
Channel Master CM-7777 pre amp with 30db, same results, sent it back and bought a Winegard LNA200 pre amp with 20db,
same results. I am confused, the "techs" at Solid Signal where I bought all this on line haven't any answers either.
No lightning strike evidence, coaxial cables check out fine, no visible damage anywhere. All the stations come from
Nashville TN which is 40 crow flying miles to the east, antenna is rated for over 100 miles. The antenna is on a 10
foot high mast surrounded by thick tall forest, best I could do by myself, not ideal.

Anybody have any suggestions?
TIA Warren

 

[jimg.allentown]

Start with this: antenna ratings by mileage are nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Why, you ask?? Because there is no reliable way to predict reception range.
Current TV signals are on the UHF band. Signals of such a high frequency are pretty much strictly "line of sight" from the tower to the receiving antenna. So, having said that, the variables that come into play are the heights of the transmitting tower and the receiving antenna. The higher the tower, the longer the range. The higher the receiving antenna, the better and more distant reception you will get.
In your case, I would suspect that your pre-amp is either on the antenna or at some remote location. I suspect that it is not getting power. A pre-amp does not make a good pass-through device, and would seem to result in the problem you are having - less stations with the pre-amp than without. Next possibility is that something is somehow causing leakage of the signal. A bad piece of coax? Wrong impedance coax? Center conductor bent and not making proper contact somewhere in the system?

I suggest that you start by verifying that you actually have power to the pre-amp. Then check all of your coax connections. After that, look for a "leaky" piece of coax. There is a lot of potential for "critter damage" to a 200 foot run of cable.

BTW, there is no better brand of antenna equipment than Winegard. They are the Rolls Royce of antenna and reception equipment makers.

 

[Bob]

"coaxial cables check out fine, no visible damage anywhere."

ASSUMING you don't have mega thousands of dollars of test equipment to verify the coax is OK, and you've replaced the amp and the setup was previously working, you might go WAY out on a limb and run some new co-ox.

 

[docmirror]

Go all the way to the antenna connection. Clean everything. Use a steel wool pad, or 600 grit, or something to clean everything at the antenna on the mast. Just replace the coax to the new pre-amp. Check the pre-amp is getting DC power from either the coax(in some cases) or the DC line to the pre-amp. I would just replace the coax from the pre-amp to the house. If you want to keep it, you'll need an O'scope to check the signal level at the output of the pre-amp and compare it to the output in the house. There's a certain amount of dB loss expected, but an O'scope or RF sensitive power meter is needed to check that. Better to just replace it.

Since both TVs were working fine before, you can sort of discount the wires FROM the splitter, bit go ahead and get a new splitter while you replace the coax. Or - you can try the splitter first, as it's the cheaper, and easier thing to swap, but more likely the outside cable. sorry.

 

[UncleTom]

Try running auto scan on your tv. I have had my tv loose its channels and it displays no signal. Run Auto scan and it found them again.

 

[AlinArk]

yes get rid of programed tv [i haven't had it for close to 25 years and lovin it ] we rely on internet or cd's

 

[MarkB_MI]

Replace all your coax connectors. Use compression-type connectors, they work better.

 

[OldFarmTractor]

Is the preamp right at the antenna? If further down the line, you amplify noise with signal.

How about taking the TV or a small TV out to the antenna. Connect it directly to antenna with a short lead and see what you get. Then move on down the line until you don't get a good signal anymore.

No fancy test equipment or anything complicated.

Also, check out this link, put in your info and find out what you might be getting and in what direction.
Find Your TV Signal

 

[K Effective]

We have a similar system, but right outside the house. After about 10 years of use, something related to the amplifier went bad up at the antenna- sorry, can't be more specific. the guy came out and replaced the item up there, all good since.

 

[Jaden]

I have had a couple of these "balun" transformers fail for no apparent reason.

 

[jm.]

I am 100 miles west of Nashville and on outside antenna I ge 22 channels so you have something going on.

 

[paul]

Coax went bad somewhere. Not sure how you tested it. The connector ends are like battery cables, look good but go bad. Or water gets in somewhere.

Wire feed off the antenna itself, those 2 wires can be flimsy, break inside the insulation.

Friend of mine slowly lost stations. I stopped by with a bunch of stuff. Looked at the tv and as I touched the connection to the tv station would come and go. Previous owner had a glop of connectors to include VHS, etc. I unscrewed that, he has nothing like that, hooked direct to tv, and he gets 3x as many stations as he ever did. Took 5 minutes....

That preamp wants no splice clear line between the antenna and the powered part in the house. You don't add an extension or some such.

Somewhere between the antenna rivets and your tv connector you got a bit of wire or connector that got wet or broke inside the insulation.....

Paul





Paul

 

[55 50 Ron]

"Coaxial cables check out fine, no visible damage anywhere" Did you check further beyond "visible" by using some instruments? Sun shining on the cable for "8 years" can cause degradation. Lots of good ideas given by previous posters.

 

[K Effective]

I have had a couple of these "balun" transformers fail for no apparent reason.

That's what went bad on ours!

 

[Hoenes]

Go ahead and replace the cable. That's what fixed mine.

 

[Tramway Guy]

100 miles with digital TV is fantasy; unless it's 50 feet high, MAYBE.

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 10:15:47 02/04/17) 100 miles with digital TV is fantasy; unless it's 50 feet high, MAYBE.

Depends on your elevation. If your house is 50' higher than the broadcasting tower, then it should work.

 

[JDEM]

I've had the same sorts of issues several times. I have three little "antenna farms" on my property. Three different locations and all 200-400 feet from the house connected to a A-B-C coax switch. I've got RG6 coax to the 200 foot run and RG11 to the 400 foot run. One of the antennas is a HD8200U. Preamp is a Channelmaster CM7777 but have also tried it with the Winegard AP8275 (worked the same). Most distant stations are around 75 miles with NO line of sight due to the mountains. When we lose out signal, or it gets weak - the first thing I do is go out to the antenna in question. I hook up a TV set right there, on site. Easy to do with a small TV and a portable AC power-pack. This test eliminates all the coax except for what is up on the antenna. If the TV works - I know the issue is downstream. If it still does not work - often it is just some moisture that got into one of the coax connections. On rare occasion, it is an amp problem. One time after losing our best channel - I found out it had temporarily changed frequency during transmitter repairs and that one drove me nuts until I spoke to engineers at the TV station. I suggest you test at the antenna first like I described. Also note I have spoken to the Solid Signal people many times. Great parts and prices but none there I know of are antenna install experts. You might find out you need a line/distribution-amp down at the house. It is cheap and sometimes it is what makes the difference. If your "test" TV works well at the antenna, but not at the house - a line/distribution-amp may be all you need. I have several. If you want a cheap amp with just one output, the 25 dB Eagle-Aspen is less then $20.

 

[Spudm]

Try a set of "Rabbit Ears" next to your tv. It might surprise you.

 

[SparepartsTN]

Thank you all. A lot of good ideas that I didn't think of, too close to the problem. Yes, I don't have thousands of dollars of tools for this problem, and I left my oscilloscope behind when I moved in 1991 (if I'd only known this day would come!!). However you have all given me good directions to explore. Forty years ago the Army thought I would be good at repairing their computers, they were wrong, but trained me anyway, so some residual knowledge remains. After considering your ideas, I think the coax/connectors sound like the best answer. It seemed obvious that the pre amp failed until two new ones acted the same. I don't have a portable TV but if I put low voltage power to the house end of the 200 foot coax I should be able to confirm if it is getting to the pre amp mounted below the antenna, I already checked the short lengths of coax with the meter for breaks. I'll report back when I discover the solution, meanwhile the Super Bowl is on Fox 17 which I no longer receive, I better get busy!
Warren

 

[buickanddeere]

As everybody else has already stated. It's probably a coax ,connectors ,mechanical damage or a moisture problem.
The eyeball coax test is rather limited . Meggering with 500volts between the center and shield will find shorts . Running an amp or two to supply a light through the shield and then the center wire will find a high resistance partial break.
Is there a brand new high powered FM broadcast station close by? The FM broadcast tower 3-4 miles from my place messed up reception.

 

[sotxbill]

your preamp, or power supply for the preamp went bad...

 

[SparepartsTN]

OK, all those who suspected the coax, you can come and pick up your gold stars anytime! The voltage test showed that the needed 18 vdc was not getting through. The coax looked good until I crawled into the thickest, most difficult brush that had grown in the last 8 years, some rodent chewed some chunks out of it.

Time to do it better. I have some power line poles laying out here and a post hole auger for my farm tractor, guess I will go play. I can move it closer, gain 20 feet in height, and shorten the coax run to get a stronger signal and keep the coax up off the ground, if they want to snack they will have to climb. I can pull the brush and level the ground a bit with the tractor, then I have to find a willing worker to assist with the pole and getting the antenna and mast attached to the side of the pole. I think the tractor front loader should lift and place the pole but I want someone here in case it goes wrong.

Thanks again, Warren

 

[JDEM]

You can buy direct-burial RG6 pretty cheap. It is impregnated with sealant that keeps it moisture proof. I had many chew holes in my cables that were not buried or hanging in the air.

 

[ss55]

This would be a good time to price out an antenna tower next to the house.

 

[buickanddeere]

(quoted from post at 13:15:47 02/04/17) 100 miles with digital TV is fantasy; unless it's 50 feet high, MAYBE.

I installed this toy antenna on the peak of my daughter's bungalow house in Sarnia, aimed to Detroit 65 miles away.
Reception is sharp and clear on 4 NBC, 7 ABC, 29 CIII, 42 CTV, 56 PS and 62 CBS . 14 channels in total .
Fox on 2.1 , 9 CBC, 14 CW, 21 MYN, 33 TVO and 38 IND will require more gain and height.
http://www.winegard.com/flatwave/air

 

[Jim Naden]

(quoted from post at 14:47:04 02/05/17)

(quoted from post at 13:15:47 02/04/17) 100 miles with digital TV is fantasy; unless it's 50 feet high, MAYBE.

I installed this toy antenna on the peak of my daughter's bungalow house in Sarnia, aimed to Detroit 65 miles away.
Reception is sharp and clear on 4 NBC, 7 ABC, 29 CIII, 42 CTV, 56 PS and 62 CBS . 14 channels in total .
Fox on 2.1 , 9 CBC, 14 CW, 21 MYN, 33 TVO and 38 IND will require more gain and height.
http://www.winegard.com/flatwave/air

I put one of those up in December, sure does work a lot better than it looks like it would. I would recommend it if it fits your requirements.