Overhauling my 806

[Dugger]

Hey guys
Im in the process of overhauling my 806 diesel and need
To know what is the best engine kit to get
Any suggestions would be helpful
Thanks
Dugger

 

[caterpillar guy]

You will need to more importantly then whose kit you get, check the counter bores in the top of the block and check for flatness of both head and block before buying any parts.

 

[Janicholson]

These Kits have been used often and help support the site we enjoy. Jim
Right here on YT.

 

[Dugger]

(reply to post at 08:45:27 06/20/21)

Block is good
Bores are good
Crank is turned
Cam is new
Just need some advice on kits
Thanks

 

[EP]

Good luck, I haven't seen a decent kit in
years. Unfortunately there isn't even a
more expensive kit that is a better
quality. Even the expensive green kits
aren't what they use to be. Just got an
OEM from them that had a .025 thick head
gasket and the pistons protruded .015. Not
saying an aftermarket kit won't work but
you must check every sleeve, piston, ring
end gap, every bearing, head gasket
thickness. Not uncommon for new sleeves
and pistons to have more clearance than
one that is worn out. The aftermarket
engine business is a mess. Not trying to
be Mr negative but be cautious with every
part.

 

[the tractor vet]

Welp not to be Mr. Neg. here BUT over hauling a D or D T 361-407 really not for the novice . As this is NOT lets just stuff parts at it and all will be good. You say your block is good to go NOT . Did you have it LINE BORED ???? These blocks CORE SHIFT . No you just don't have some get in and get out machine shop line HONE IT ya have it LINE BORED then ya bore the block .010 over off the center line of the crank and fit each sleeve to the hole , you also do the counter bores so all sleeves stand out to SPEC's . then each piston is FIT to the bore once all sleeves have been checked for wrinkling yep they will wrinkle . I get my parts from a jobber supply house and piece a kit together . i use Victor gskt. Perfect circle pistons , sleeves and rings, Clevite bearings . And don't for get to have the rods done on both ends. Head work ah here again vary important to get the valves set in correctly . they are vary fussy on how the valves set in the head.

 

[Dugger]

(reply to post at 20:31:05 06/20/21)

Always mr negative
The rest of us are just dumb
My machinist included
I just wanted to know what kits are available
I will quit asking

 

[the tractor vet]

ZI was just tryen to help ya , i have seen several guys plum screw up when tryen to do one , one guy destroyed five blocks and none lasted past 30 hours of run time . Like i said on KITS i deal with and engine parts jobber and we peace meal a good kit together with USA made parts . NOT everybody knows all the little quarks . Or has done many rebuilds . I have seen a lot of socalled machine shops that really do not know what they are doing . Yep i am OCD when it comes to engine building been that way for darn near 60 years . So yep i do not think i know more then most i know it.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

The market for "kits" has dwindled greatly over the years. What old tractors needed overhauled, have been overhauled, and they just don't get the hours on them like they used to so they last forever.

That means you don't have many choices like you used to. Reliance (which many people hate) and ???

 

[EP]

Those are all critical things to do on those 361 to 407 blocks. I believe they are one of the most difficult engines to get right. I don't know what you have against line honing? Unless the tunnel is way out of wack or has damage to a housing bore. If the caps are cut properly cut not just throw on the cap grinder and whacked, 9 out of 10 blocks only need a couple thou taken off. I do realize with line honing if you butcher a bunch off of the caps too much material will need to taken from the block as the hone takes equal amounts from the block and caps. This would result in loosing your gear lash. The block can also be honed in the upright position to help take more from the caps. I suspect you once had a line hone done by an inferior shop and they screwed it up. But what do I know, I run a crank grinder and CNC equipment and make a living in the tenths of thousands of an inch

 

[MikeJM]

I dont understand why some of you guys are stuck on the sleeve counter bore? The sleeve on these engines doesnt sit on the flange, it relies on the heavy press fit to stay in place. The sleeve on a D/DT407 is supposed to be .040 above the deck.

Whats important on these engines is the parent bore is straight and round with the proper dimensions to get the proper press fit. Once the sleeve is installed it should be checked and roundness and honed to get it there.

Like others have said, kits are getting more difficult to get. Recently couldnt get standard main bearings and the kit I did manage to find after many hours of calling around. And two of the lower shells were .020 under.

I dont enjoy doing them, especially the head, theyre just big and heavy.

 

[the tractor vet]

That is the big thing with the with the hone , i prefer to just lightly dust the block and take a little more from the caps . engine machinists that know what they are doing around here are getting fewer by the day. And young people want nothing to do with it or even try and learn . I had one vary close friend that had the best shop this side of the big creek .Dick and i went back to 1961 together as he was five years older then me when we first meet . He was working as a diesel mechanic and me i was mowing lawns and sweeping out the shop and offices. when i became of age for the CAR and the lest go fast bug bit it was the OLD GUYS that helped me and taught me how to . The grass mowing and sweeping gave way to learning the finer arts of welding , fabing ,engine rebuilding , trans missions, finial drivers , truck driving , and equipment operation, and learning how to do machine work . . During the off season we spent the winter months getting ready for the dirt moving months . Everything was done in HOUSE . Dick left and went on his own in 65 starting in a Gulf Gas station that be came Ford central for performance . Little at a time he kept building his shop till he moved out in the bushes away from prying eyes and kept on building his shop bigger with the latest equipment . He had a line bore that could do a V 16 . Yes i could set up a block and line bore , not as fast as he could . Loved his boring bar set up only one this side of the big creek . Could bore a 2.5 horse Briggs or a huge V16 diesel up to 12 inch bore . Line bore a block , take it over to the boring bar and set up off the center line of the crank pop out any dowell pins and deck the block cut the counter bores then do a + .010 over bore to correct any core shift on a D 361 -Dt407 and it was perfect . All was good till his health went down hill , he tried to teach his kid to take over but his kid wanted nothing to do with it . Dick offered it to me but there was no way i could come up with that kind of money as my friendly banker was NOT that friendly . Now around here we are hard pressed to find a place to do good work in a timely fashion . Or one that even has a clue of how to do the job .

 

[used red MN]

I would have hoped Pete 23 would chime in, he always
seems to be soldid in IH knowledge and would hope he
could make a recommendation, no email either. I do not have enough
experience with putting in tractor kits. Used to be you could trust
Perfect Circle kits but I think they are now only available for
common automotive applications. Only thing I might
suggest is calling Elmers Repair in KS ..see link.. not sure
what brand they carry but I dont think he is the type to
send junk out the door.
Poke here

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I thought core shift occurred before the block was poured. How does this affect what Dugger wants to do?

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Never mind. I see what youre talking about now.

 

[Dugger]

(reply to post at 06:52:08 06/20/21)

Hey tractor vet
Where do you take your blocks now
Or can you do it
Dugger

 

[MeanGene1]

You are correct in that core shift happens before or during the pouring process, when the sand cores move out of position before or during pouring the metal. Many cast iron blocks do move around and take a set a bit after use, but that is not the same as core shift. A sonic test can map out the cylinders and detect core shift. An align bore is necessary when main caps have been replaced or are otherwise way out of line, usually an align hone is called for when an engine has been run and still has it's original caps and there has been no incident that disturbs the alignment. Align honing tends to remove less metal and disturbs the relationship with cam tunnel bores etc less, removing metal moves the cam & crank closer together, shortens the deck height etc. Of course the decision on which way to go follows close inspection. Some blocks move more than others, one that almost always benefits from an align hone is the small-block Chebbie. I do a lot of 427 Fords, which can suffer from core shift in the cylinders, but the mains tend to stay pretty stable, but may still need a light align hone to get the bearing crush correct