Pacemaker and welding

[JerryD]

I just had a pacemaker installed and was told to stay away from arc and mig welding. They said the EMF could be harmful to the pacemaker. If anyone out there has a pacemaker installed what do you do if you need welding done and you are the only one around? They also said NO MRI's and stay away from strong magnets of which I have some VERY strong magnets from A/C radar magnatron tubes that I use on occasion.

 

[504]

Magnets and electrical pulses can turn your pacemaker up,down or OFF. Do what the makers of the PM says, or buy lots of life insurance. My wife is on #3.

 

[Paul in MN]

There is a great deal of difference in welding processes and thus the amount of electro-magnetic field created. I am not an expert on this, but I'd guess that you can get good answers from the company which made your particular pacemaker. You probably received a card to keep in your wallet that gives the brand and model #. Call the company and ask for technical service. They should have data available to answer your question.

From my general knowledge, I suspect that the magnetic field is much greater for AC welding, and this field can be shielded (many applications of shielding done in electronic equipment). Field strength can be measured by a Gauss meter. Field strength is inversely proportional to distance from the arc, i.e. 2 x the distance = 1/4 the field strength. Field strength is proportional to the amperage of the arc. There is a whole section of science devoted to this subject, so my guess is that the pacemaker manuf just puts a legal precaution warning label to protect you and them in all cases. We are constantly exposed to electric fields, like even driving under a power line or walking past a running electric motor, so it is really field strength we are concerned about with regards to the pacemaker.

I have heart issues and stents, but have not had to go to a pacemaker yet. But I may need to know these answers within a few years. Meanwhile you should have no pacemaker trouble when Oxy/ Acetylene gas welding. With farm equipment repair, the gas welding process has very limited application.

When you find out some solid answers, please post back what you have found out.

Paul in MN

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

504, When you say your wife is on #3, are you talking about pacemakers or husbands? The subject was pacemakers until you brought life insurance into it. That's why I ask.

Stan

 

[rustred]

we are tractor doctors, so i would be taking your doctors advice. your welding days are over.

 

[504]

3 Pacemakers, she is stuck with me,38 years so far. Heartache at 39ys,60 now

 

[george md]

Jerry,

Seems to make a difference whether you have medtronics
or st jude . Medtronics says limit of 125 amp ,St jude says
limit of 400 amps. But in any case stay away from coils of
lead ,and pull the leads out straight. Also a good idea to
twist the leads to make them somewhat self canceling.
I have st jude and last fall I welded grouser bar on a
loader at 250 amps or better. I have used the hi frequency
for tig on small stick ,but have not done tig yet. The hi
freq worries me more the than the stick welding .

Email me if you want to chat. After thought -- Info is
posted on their sites.

george

 

[Roger in Iowa]

Chainsaws and weed eaters are a no-no too! Buddy got hit 38 times )by defibrulator) until he could get to the hospital to get it (pacemaker) corrected. He had been running a chainsaw.

 

[M-MAN]

It's called 'hiring the job out". If you're determined to play Russian Roulette just go ahead a keep doing what you've alway's done. Nobody's funeral but your's. Used to have an old guy at the dealership that did all their welding. After he got a pacemaker he would just holler at me when a welding job came up. Said he didn't feel like dying today. Something to think about.

 

[steve19438]

FWIW
Untitled URL Link

 

[ss55]

I don't think you will get many replies from the guys that didn't survive taking that risk - pun intended.

 

[David G]

I would follow their advice and not push the limit.

Give it up.

 

[Mark - IN.]

DO WHAT THE SAWBONES TOLD YOU TO DO.

There are a lot of areas covered on this site by folks that own and work on tractors or would like to, but in all of the years that I've been coming here I don't recall anyone here being a physician. There are folks here that play lawyers, electricians, plumbers and you name it, but I haven't seen anyone playing a physician. Your sawbones told you to stay away from those things and why, SO DO IT.

Good luck, and I hope that you have a long, safe, trouble free life ahead of you.

Mark

 

[WNYBill]

I have a pacer and live a in a rural area so my Doctors are familiar with welders, chainsaws and etc. If you have a simple pacemaker, not one with a defibrillator, your worries are minimal. Just keep the chain saw at arms length (don't hug it). Same with the welder, don't sit on it. Pacers have come a long way, microwave and even a MRI are OK for the one I have.

Disclaimer: your results may vary

Bill

 

[DrCharles]

I am one, but am no expert on pacemakers even with my EE degree too! Magnetic fields do drop off exponentially with distance, so spacing is important... George MD gave some detailed information.

However, you should follow YOUR doc's advice. As others have pointed out, what's the risk/benefit ratio... is it worth potentially messing up your pacemaker's programming, possibly fatally, to do a little welding?

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

ss55; If there's a pun in that sentence, I couldn't find it. I suspect that one of us has a different understanding of what a pun is than the commonly accepted definition.

Stan

 

[coshoo]

"A/C Radar Magnatron"? That sounds scary, and I don't even know what it is. Seems like your "occasional use" needs to drop to zero, if you value your life. Ditto the welding. We have to start making compromises in our activities as our bodies start going sideways with age. Welcome to geezerhood.

 

[Frank Dodson]

'Your results may vary"

That statement couldn't be more correct. I am not a M.D. however I have a graduate degree in human biology and I taught college human anatomy and physiology for over 20 years before going into college administration. I also have been wearing a pacemaker for 20 years. There are several conditions that may cause the need for a pacemaker. I have 3rd degree heart block(heart stops for few seconds). After wearing the pacemaker for approx. ten years I became confident that I could do anything so I picked up a strong magnet and my heart begin to skip beats, race etc. I put the magnet down and my heart went back into rhythm. In April I had a "silent" heart attack and fell on an end table and wood floor and broke my shoulder. The doctors were concerned with my shoulder and only made a x-ray of the pacemaker to see if it or the wires were broken. Things went down hill from there. I went into severe heart failure and for two days I was in critical condition. They found that the hard lick caused my pacemaker to deprogram. I am better and will start cardio rehab next week. I am also allowed to drive my tractors and dozer. I have given my welder to my son-in=law.

DON'T USE THE WELDER BECAUSE IT ISN'T WORTH THE DANGER!

 

[4520BW]

A guy I worked with had one and welded all the time, we had a big manga-flux machine for checking heads and blocks for cracks and it laid him out!

 

[jacksun65]

find you a tin foil suit and hat you should be ok LOL

 

[Chris(WA)]

Wife just got one so I asked the tech the same question. He said keep a little distance from the welder itself, don't stand on the leads. Limit exposure to the things that would generate a large magnetic field.(Car alternators too.)

What he said would happen is that you would probably not damage the pacemaker but that it would not function if your heart needed it to while it was exposed to the field as the electromagnetic field would be stronger than the signal from your heart. It should go back to working afterward but he would not guarantee it...said to run the diagnostic on the base unit afterwards.
Your results may vary but I have her stand back away a few feet from the welder and leads. I do believe I could have her hold something while I welded it if we were wary. Have not had to yet, but the day is young! Best of luck!

 

[RayP(MI)]

Son and I both have pacemakers set to defillibrate only. We have done about all the "no-nos" with no problems, except perhaps shooting high power rifles left handed. Mine is right where the but of the gun would go. Son's is more centered. We have welded, run chainsaws, weed whippers, heavy machinery, ham radios, carry cell phones on left side, and use phones on left ear. He works as a computer technician, some times in warehouses full of running computers. Between us, probably 5 years experience. We have had no problems. I believe the later models are far better sheilded than early ones. His is a St. Jude's, mine a Boston Scientific. I believe the scary warnings may have been valid for early models, not so much on newer models. When I got mine, I asked the technician if the warnings were written by the doctors, engineers, or lawyers. He allowed that probably was the lawyers. That said we keep welding, chain saws and weed whippers away from uppe left quadrants. Never had any problems.

What blows me away is the battery life they get on those things. Mine is rated 12 years, son's somewhat less. They have a lot going on in there, sensing, pacing, defibrulating (and that is a pretty big charge). Ours also communicate with a base on the bedside. And they self trouble shoot. Now if I could get that kind of battery life out of my cell phone!

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Chris; a long time ago my brother-in-law taught me something he had learned from years of working as a remodeling contractor---alone most of the time. What he told me was that there's always a way to do a job by yourself. Often it takes longer than if you had some help, but there are advantages too, not the least of which is that you never have to work with people who don't understand what's going on (or, in the worst case, you always do).

Stan

 

[JerryD]

Thank you for all the reply's. With what you all have said I will NOT use the welders. Why take a chance. At age 79 I probably don't need to be doing any welding. I'll get my neighbor to weld for me if I need anything done. Besides he is a lot better welder than I am.
Thanks again for your input.
Jerry

 

[Musky]

I just got my 3rd placed less than a month ago. Talked at length with the fellow that programed it to my requirements. I was able to ask several questions about my device. Welding was one that I asked about since I do fair amount of it for repair etc. He told me that my new device could possibly shut down with exposer to magnetic fields but, would resume its duties as soon as the field was eliminated. I also asked about battery operated tools such as drills, saws, etc. He said they also would be no problem. Suggested maintaining as much distance as possible while working with the equipment that generates those fields. BTW, my old device saved me on four different occasions in the last year Its not a pleasant experience but better than the alternative. Been event free last six months,, hopefully changes in Dr.,meds, and this new device will keep it that way.

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Musky; good luck. Hope you'll be well from now on.

Stan

 

[Stephen Newell]

There is a lot of information out there. There is no way anyone can answer your question. Only the manufacturer of the pacemaker can answer your question. You know it wasn't long ago you would go in a business and there were signs all over saying microwave ovens in use. This was because the early pacemakers were sensitive to the use of a microwave oven. Today's pacemakers and microwaves are better so it's no longer the threat it was. It's the same way with some pacemakers and welding. Only the manufacturer can tell you if their equipment is safe around welding. Then some people say keep the welder away from where you are actually welding and keep 2' between the pacemaker and the arc and work in a dry place with dry gloves and shoes. You just need to do some homework and call the manufacturer.

 

[jim buford]

I have had a medtronics pm for several years and was told by cardiologist to stay away from chainsaws, autos and the like but the card from Medtronics says it has been insulated against electromagnetic impulses.
I do what I always did but had my wife with me when first used chainsaw but no problem. An older friend had the same experience. I am 79.

Here is the deal, be careful until you know how yours will react. Many doctors and pm manufacturers will err on the side of caution because of liability. If they don't say don't use a chainsaw and you are using one and hurt yourself for any reason not related to the pm
they are afraid of a potential lawsuit. Mine is not a defib so can't speak on them.
Hopefully, our age has taught us to not be foolhardy, but probably not.