Paint mixing 101

[Ryan Renko]

I need opinions on the whole paint mixing theory!! How do you begin to know how much reducer to use to thin the paint?? What about the ratio to the hardener?? I welcome all answers!!! Thanks, Ryan

 

[Patsdeere]

Any paint that is any good will dictate what mix you should use.

What brand/line are you using?

 

[Stephen Newell]

Nobody is going to be able to answer your question. Each different brand and product line has a different formula. Without knowing exactly what product you are trying to use, it wouldn't be possible to tell. If you are using an automotive paint, I would suggest you get a product sheet on the paint you are using from where you bought the paint. Its the instructions that should be on the can but there isn't room because of hazzard warnings in three languages and California's oppion of the product. I would also keep the lids on the cans until you do a lot of homework on the paint. Many paints are not compatable with each other and the primer. You can do a fine job painting and then have the paint peal off the primer because the paint wasn't compatable with the primer.

 

[Ryan Renko]

I am going to be painting a D17 IV. I was really thinking about buying Agco paint but might consider another type. Who even makes Agcos paint?? Should I buy another brand?? I aint trying to be cheap. Ryan

 

[glennster]

there should be a spec sheet and msds sheets that come with the paint from your supplier. they will gie the correct ratios. stop by a body shop supply and get some paint mixing cups. they are usually 1 quart cups with ratios marked on the side. example, some urethanes, like crossfire (martin senyor) are 8-4-1. 8 parts paint, 4 parts reducer, 1 part hardener. find the 8-4-1 on the cup, fill paint up to 8, then thinner to 4, then hardener to 1. the mixing cups are plastic and disposable.

 

[glennster]

the implement paints from the ag dealers are modified alkyd enamels. not of the same quality as an automotive line, but perfectly fine for painting a tractor, and well within most folks budget. it does off u/v resistance so sun fading over time is reduced. it is easy to apply, even for a beginner, and pretty forgiving. hardeners pose a problem with the toxic chemical exposure. wear appropriate saftey gear, a disposable paint suit, nitrile gloves, and painters hood. even lacquer thinner is nasty stuff. it is readily absorbed thru the skin.

 

[Stephen Newell]

The Agco paint is a little easier to figure out. To answer your initial question, with an alkyd enamel you use as little thinner as you can to where it will go through your sprayer. First try it with no thinner. You'll have to check with the specifications on the paint but probably its best to use naphtha to thin it with for spraying it. Glennster is correct that an alkyd is a lot simpler to use. It dries so slow that you don't have to worry about orange peal and will adhere to most primers. Just don't use it over a rattle can primer. Chances are a rattle can primer is lacquer type product with is only suitable for a lacquer topcoat. As far as the hardener, the amount to use is probably on the can. More than likely it will be somewhere around 2 oz. per quart. Any paint left over that has had the hardener put into it should be disposed of.

I did a little searching for Agco paint and it appears Agco is the MFG. I also agree with Glennster that any alkyd paint is inferior to an automotive paint. If you're to the point of purchasing the topcoat, I'm sure you're aware of how much work it is to paint a tractor. Only you can decide if its worth a couple hundred dollars to not have to paint it again for many more years. The Agco paint is better but I was trying to be cheap one time and painted a Kubota tractor with Valspar tractor paint with hardener in it and it only lasted a year. After two years it's was more white than orange in places. Then the floor plate where I knew there would be a lot of foot traffic, I put six coats of paint on it letting it dry a week between coats. After eight hours of use there was bare metal showing. With this experience I will never paint another tractor with an alkyd. I think it's worth the money to purchase a automotive urethane, either Dupont Nason 2k or PPG Concept. These finishes are more complex to use and need some homework before using but in the end will last a lot longer.

 

[CNKS]

The answer is very simple. Buy quality paint (not farm store stuff), and you can get a spec sheet from the dealer or off the manufactuer's web site. Follow those instructions exactly, and you will never have to change them. Use HVLP guns and set them to the manufacturers specs, and you won't have to mess with them either. In the 10 years I have been doing this, I have never had to modify anything. I use acrylic urethane. Be sure you have a supplied air system to protect your lungs.

 

[CNKS]

Most tractor dealers sell paint made by Valspar. Valspar makes many lines of paint, everything from quality paint that competes with PPG and DuPont, down to the 1930's alkyd enamel. Agco is probably an acylic modified alkyd enamel which is adequate for tractors, as glennster says but will come with minimal instructions.

 

[Ryan Renko]

Thanks for all the great tips!! After spraying your first coat of paint, how long should you wait till you apply a additional coat of paint??

 

[CNKS]

10-15 minutes at 70 degrees--assuming quality paint.

 

[Stephen Newell]

If you are still talking about the alkyd, you should wait 24 hours at 70 degrees. It would need longer if cold. The best thing to do is find an inconspicuous place and press your thumb into it. If it leaves a print, its not dry enough to recoat.

 

[CNKS]

That's a recoat if you decide later on that you need another coat. If you are applying 3 coats, for example only a short time is needed for the previous coat to "flash", then another coat can be applied. If you delay,then you should probably wait 24 hours or so. Some paints do not give a time for recoating, then we are on our own.

 

[Stephen Newell]

I don't agree. You don't rush an alkyd. Each coat should be completely dry before applying another coat. It's not an automotive finish. It's more like enamel house paint. It doesn't flash, it just slowly cures without a recoat window.

 

[CNKS]

Probably why I don't use it, among numerous other reasons. If what you say is true, it would take me three days to paint a piece of sheet metal. Alkyd was used by body shops not too many years ago, perhaps even into the 80's. It was developed in the 30's I think, and was the original "high gloss" paint, so it IS automotive paint, just not current. I suppose they had a heated drying booth, otherwise they would never get anything done.

 

[Rod (NH)]

Not all alkyds are the same. For example, PPG's industrial alkyd ALK-110 w/o hardener has a 10-15 min flash time between coats and should not be recoated after 3 hrs and before 3 days to prevent lifting. Similarly, PPG's industrial acrylic modified alkyd ALK 200 w/o hardener has a 5-10 minute flash time between coats and should not be recoated after 3 hours and before 4 days to prevent lifting. It's difficult to generalize with today's paints. That's why it is always important to obtain (and follow) the manufacturer's detailed written instructions to avoid problems. If those instructions are not on the can label and the manufacturer does not publish a detailed technical data sheet, then perhaps a different manufacturer should be found.

 

[Stephen Newell]

I've never seen a alkyd paint that worked any different than house paint. I've used enamels that would flash and had a recoat window but they were a synthetic enamel, not alkyd. I looked for spec's on the Arco paint online but couldn't find anything. The last tractor paint I used was the Valspar Tractor Paint from Tractor Supply. It would stay completely wet for at least four hours. Any dust or bug in the county was sure to find it. I would only spray it at the end of the day and stay gone until morning. While searching for the spec sheet I came across a couple of places that said the Arco paint was manufactured by Valspar. I could only conclude the Arco was a better product line of the crummy paint I used.

 

[El Toro]

If you buy any of the name brand auto paint the instructions will be on the cans. If you want it to look better than when new here's a WD45 painted with Martin Senours Crossfire paint. I man in Ohio painted this tractor and this is what he uses when painting tractors. Hal

 

[Bodyman]

My 2 bit's worth, if your tractor is worth the time and effort to do a quality job why Cheap out and have a tractor that in a year or two looks like it was painted 20 years ago and sat out in the weather ever since ? Not trying to start anything here, just have seen it may times and hoping to save someone all the anxiety after all the time and money spent.

 

[CNKS]

Alkyd and synthetic are the names for the same product. Compared to todays paints, alkyd (snythetic) are poor paints and the differences in quality between brands are not surprising. But, I consider alkyd to be alkyd, none will last very long unless kept inside.

 

[Stephen Newell]

The synthetic I was refering to, their name for it was quick dry enamel. It was more similar to rattle can enamel. I don't like alkyds either. Some are better than others though. I painted a utility trailer with Sherwin Williams All Surface Enamel three years ago and except for damages it still looks brand new. I did use hardener in it and the color was a light grey so fading wouldn't be noticed anyway. The Case tractor I just finished painting, I used Nason 2k.

 

[rustyj14]

Yes, CNKS, that enamel paint from many years ago was all we had, besides laquer, and it was good for about 3 years, if ya didn't buff it out occasionally, although i never had to buff my jobs, because i put the shine in the job. And, we baked the paint in one shop i worked in. Had to use a "baking liquid" but i can't remember how it was formulated--boss kept that recipe to himself.
I found out much later the dangers of using hardener in the paint, and the fact that the regular two filter mask didn't protect our breathing very well. Until it was too late!
I'm pretty much over it now, but for many years, i couldn't be near a shop that used enamel hardener. I'd start gasping for breath, wheezing, and coughing, until i could drive around and keep my head in the air coming in the window, usually with some one else driving!
So, all of you neophyte painters, heed our warnings. Also, if you were ever allergic to chicken meat, or eggs, stay away from those paint hardeners! Aan air supply mask helps, but there is that one time you don't use it------

 

[rustyj14]

When i was working at auto refinishing, one day the factory paint rep came in. He saw a complete job i had just finished, and complemented me on it. Then he asked how i measured out how much to thin the paint. I told him:" When it looks good, running off the paint stir stick, i figger its about right! And i spray it on the job."
That guy gave me a fishey eyed look, folded his tent and left, shaking his head.
I guess he forgot the word "experience".