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Pertronix Ignitor Ignition

Yesterday's Tractor Forums
T

thornvilleloboy

Member
Any body have a picture of an installed system and what it looks like under the cap on a side mount distributor ? Wanting to make mine easier to start in cold wet weather .
 
simple maintenance would be the first step.

all the ignitor does is get you spark.

points will get that for you too.

if the rest of the engine is not maintained or wore plum slap out.. all you will have is an expensive electric module that makes good spark.

that and a clapped out 60 psi compression engine with rusty fuel tank won't get ya far.

get her running good on points.. THEN decide if you want to spend enough money on the module that would buy points for 2 tracgors for the rest of your life..

soundguy
 
thornvilleloboy ,I agree with soundguy,a Pertronix igniter ignition system will not magically repair a worn out engine,rings,valves ect. or a rusty contaminated fuel system.Get it running right first with a quality set of points.then change it later if you must.
 
Do a search for electronic ignition in the archives here. You will see LOTS of posts about it. Most of them are a bunch of whining or ridicule about how much EI costs. You'll also see a lot of bragging about how long their points have lasted or some pitiful plea to "keep it original". Not much real info though.
And never any actual help. If you have a sidemount I can probably help. I've never done a front mount though.
Keep in mind that people who know more about electrics than me say not to use EI in a 6V tractor. Something about voltage drop while cranking that will cause not enough juce to feed the EI.
So the info I'm giving you here pertains to a 12V
Negative ground system. OK?
On a side mount install you will have the little plastic "black box" with two wires coming out of it that goes into your distributer. You will remove your points and condensor. Install the black box in place of the points. Screws right in. The two wires will go to your coil. Thread the two wires through the hole in the side of the distributer where the one wire used to be. I used a dab of silicone to prevent abrasion there. Hook Red to + side of your coil, Black to - side of the coil. Set the roundish magnet over the point cam - it just slip fits on, put your distributer cap back on and go. It really is that easy. Instructions may say something about setting the air gap between the round magnet and the black box. Mine needed no adjustment there.
You will also want to adjust your timing - either static or with a timing light. But you do that with new points anyway.
Viola. Never touch your points again.
Guys here huff and puff, pout, rant and scoff at me but I still say my tractor starts quicker - especially in extreme conditions - wet, cold etc.
I also know the the dwell is always perfect and does not vary as the points wear. Thus the tractor is giving it's optimum performance and might ever gain you 1/10th of a horse. I also know that you would have to have extremely worn distributer bushings for them to have any effect on your air gap. Not so with points.
If you like the idea of "set it and forget it" EI is definately the way to go.
 
You guys forget that points are a mechanical part so there is wear associated with it. That being said, as time goes by the point gap will change and that changes dwell and timing.
You do not have that with electronic ignition. Wear in the dist. shaft will also change point gap. A small amount of shaft slop will not effect the EI.
Bottom line is less Maint. and better running engine.
 
a premium set of points on a properly lubed cam checked yearly, should be fine for points wear.

no reason not to do a tune up yearly...ei or not..

I won't live long enough to make up the price differential in points vs ei vs years of use I'm getting , and that is just on 1 tractor. if I looked at all my tractors.. I'd have to live a thousand lifetimes to come out money wise..


soundguy
 
Another way to look at it Soundguy is how do you want to spend your money. You enjoy spending your money on tractors. And you have a lot of them. If you had to use up or wear out all your tractors you would have to spend several lifetimes to do it. So what if a guy spends a few bucks on EI. Maybe he doesn't like to set points. Maybe he has to pay someone to do it for him. It is not this board's job to tell a fellow how to spend his money. Any more than it is our job here to tell someone how many tractors they need.
 
I didn't tell him how to or not to spend his money.

My first post on the subject was to get the tractor running good, and then decide if he wanted ei or not.

No reason to put an ei on a tractor that is so clapped out you have to pull start it.. etc.

all that aside...

IMHO.. if someone doesn't have the mechanical capability to set points, they likely don't have the mechanical ability to maintain a tractor, or do basic maintenance. If I had to pay someone to chang emy tractor oil, or wire up a lamp.. or any of the minor to moderate repairs we see here every day.. I might as well sell my tractors. couldn't afford them.

As to knowing how? The first time I did points I sat down beside a tractor not knowing how, when i got up, I knew how. Prety much the same deal with anything I've ever taught myself how to fix. you start out not knowing and at some point cross a line and know.

to go along with that. I equate the besic 'electrical' ability of installing points with roughly the same amount of technical know how of installing an EI.

in other words.. if you can install an EI.. you should be able to do points.

If you have points.. try setting them at least once before moving on.

kinda like kids with lace up or velcro shoes.

Many parents I know won't let their kids get a velcro shoe UNTIL they learn how to tie a lace. once they can tie laces.. then they let them choose.

I think that's a safe analogy to apply here.

if your ignition craps out on you.. you should have the basic know how to troubleshoot it onthe roadside or out inthe pasture. whether it is moving breaker contacts, or understanding how to test your ei to see if it is working.

I'm not against ei... I'm 'for' knowing how to handle or install/maintain both
, and knowing why / when you may need something fixed vs bandaided.



soundguy
 
Is thornvilleloboy's tractor worn out?
I don't know. I haven't followed his tractor.
If it's worn out then the electrics of whatever variety are not going to fix it.
It might have a fresh engine for all I know.
Bruce VA has honed and refined a good "How To" on front mount distributers. For a person who wants to get up to speed and on that page and do the learning it is pretty much bullet proof.
The presumption that is made however is that the questioner WANTS to do all that learning.
When I go to my CPA for taxes she is always helpful and excieted about explaining all the legal deductions she took on my behalf and all the money she has saved me.
Invariably as she explains the ins and outs of tax law to me my eyes begin to glaze over and I start wondering if I left the milk out this morning. Despite my tax lady's and Bruce's best efforts there are some things people just don't want to learn. And so next year come tax time or points time I will have to go through the drudgery of listening to tax law or Ohms law again. Not worth it to some.
There are others that want their tractor to start first time every time and not have to fuss with the points. EVER! Should they be driving an old tractor? That is not my call to make.
Should I not be a sole proprietorship because I don't understand the rudiments of tax law?
I have understood how to put in a set of points since I watched my cousin check the points in an old Lawson single cyl at the age of about 8. I continue to advocate for EI because I think it is the best answer for people who do not want to have to mess with points, do not want to relearn about electrics ala You, Bruce, Zane and others even once a year.
 
(quoted from post at 02:26:59 09/11/11) " Bottom line is less Maint. "

I agree.

" and better running engine. "

I disagree.
50 Tips
Click to expand...

If you don't know how can you disagree... I have converted dozens of engines,,, all of'em ran better, performed better especially cold start ups... Myself like the nay-sayers i am to cheap to fess up for EI but would if I depended on the tractor... The only time points can compete with EI is when every thing is brand new,,, form their its all down hill...
 
When I hear that someone wants their tractor to usually start every tie and never set points, I think I hear them wanting a diesel.. :) not a gasser.. :)

soundguy
 
What I am trying to do is to get this tractor to start in winter time , it has to sit outside under a tarp . It won't fit in my garage , with my two cars and atv . If I could make it , where I could count on it to start and be able to plow out the drive way . I could get rid of my atv that is only being used for snow plowing now that I quit hunting . Last year I used a battery warmer and a block heater , that only added to my electric bill ! The battery was brand new just before winter and tractor was tuned up and carb was rebuilt that fall . All fluilds were changed to winter weight and antifreeze . Last winter I had to put one of the cars out and drag the tractor into my garage with my atv . It sat in there for three days before it would start . I have never seen any thing that so cold blooded ! What gets me is , it runs perfect all summer and fall ! Last winter I even put a new carburetor choke fly assembly on it , thinking it had some thing to do with the choke . The old man I bought it from never used it in the winter , he always went south for the winter . He owned this tractor over 40 years . Maybe the tractor hasn't figured out it has a new owner yet , and needs to work in the winter .
 
It's probably sacrilage here.. but.. while I do own an 8n and a 2n.. I really never use them for work anymore. Up untill a couple years ago I still used the 8n with a conical seeder/spreader to put out seed.. the N was a hair more nimble than a slightly larger 00/01.. but even that.. I've given over to a rowcrop... I can turn my 740, 950 or 951 way tighter than an N can think of turning.. and I can see better from 'up there'.

Once I hit the 55-64 models.. I really had little use other than nostalgia for the 39-52 models. More hp, more options.. same price range.. same realitive level of technology / parts / know how to work on them.. etc...

UNless an N literally fell into my lap.. I don't forsee buying another one. at least not a plain jane one... now.. if one with a howaerd or everette.. or sherman live pto went up for sale cheap near me.. sure.. I'd hop on it for some collector value.. other than that.. 27hp bad breathing flatty with a non live 4spd and non live hyds? no thanks.. :)

I love my 65+ models too.. but really.. not as much as I like my 55-64 row crops. I bought that 2000 ag chassie.. just so I could have a 4 cyl 2000 and 4000.. but I love the 4000 wf rc way better than the 2000.

I do like the easy starting 175 diesel in my 3000.. all it wants is a hot battery and it's ready. I just am not fond of the chassie. if it were a row crop non platform like a NF prior model.. I'd be happy as a clam.

my 5000.. again.. GREAT work tool. I like driving it moreso than my newer 7610s.. partly nostalgia, and beause I wanted a 5000 long before i got the 7610s. As for the 7610s.. it's a good machine.. for a newer one.. owes alot to the older design the 5000 was based on. that said.. it's simply not as maintenance free as the oldies. If I don't start and service and run that tractor every quarter.. I have to work on it. the 5000? I can leave it set a year , charge the battery and go...

used to mow a bit with a 2000 3cyl gasser.. wasn't impressed compaired to my 3000 diesel. wheezed and chugged along. a carb issue I'm sure. had to use a clothespin to hold choke open to get her to roll sometimes... looked at buying one like that one day, and decided what the hell for.. :)

at this point.. with economics as they are.. I'm saving my money for the oes I really like.. 55-64 rowcrops... i will say though.. that 4600 I picked up... pretty nice. just big enough to feel like a real tractor like the 5000.. yet not so big as to be hard to maneuver...

soundguy
 
FordFarmer stopped by my house a year or two ago and while he was here I started my cobbled up gasser for him. This summer when I met him at the tractor show he mentioned that tractor had the quietest, nicest running engine he had ever heard. There is something to be said for them after all, given the stink and noise of a diesel.
 
Thornville Ohio?
If so you are in Cold Country. Fellows from the south don't know Cold. There is one best fix for hard starting in cold country.
N will do mighty deeds in the snow if properly equiped with ballast, tire chains and for cold starting, 12 volts.
 
I'm always amused by this argument. It's really up to the owner and his/her pocket book. I'm starting the tear down on my 8N in the morning. Needs at least rings but I'm couning on a full rebuild. It's getting IE and 12 volt as it goes back together. I have several reasons.

1. I use it hard year round.

2. It has to start year round even at -30 up here in MN.

3. With a front mount and bad knees I really don't need to be fussing with a tune up once or twice a year.

I've put about 200 hours on sense Jan. Keep in mind that I plow anywhere from 3-11 acres a years with it plus to the other tilliage work with it, plant corn peas and beans with it and cultivate the same. Cut brush and finish mow 5 acres plus maintain fence and spray pasture. On top of that I do a little custom work with it too. I use a back blade to maintain my drive and push some snow in the winter. Oh I will add a newer Ford, just a tad bigger as soon as I can afford to but it's what I have now.....and I don't see Jerry dropping one off on my door step any time soon :P :P :P .

Rick
 
Boy , I didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest ! It seems like electronic ignition is fighting words ! I have a 52 8n 6 volt side mount distributor tractor . Mechanically in very good condition and orignal sheet metal for being almost 60 years old in pretty good shape . The motor is very strong and does not use or leak oil and no blow by . Motor was overhauled back in 2006 from invoices given to me by second owner . He had the tractor over 40 years . He remarried at 78 years old and was moving to where his new was waiting on him in Texas . He sold it to me for a fast $1000 , which included bush hog , grader blade and 30 inch soil scoop . We became friends when he had bought a new car and car had locked him out , his keyes were on the seat . I seen he was having problems and gave him a ride home to get spare keyes and took him back to get his car . It ended up he only lived about 2 miles from me . Out here in the sticks , he is a neigbor . I would see him out mowwing and yell at him on my way home and tell him he was too old to be out on a tractor . He stoped by and asked me if I wanted that tractor because he was going to have a tag sale and it had to be gone or it would go for more if I waited .
a48953.jpg
 
if I have a gasser, I like an underslung exhaust.. for a diesel.. I don't mind an overhead.

as for the sound.. i actually like the rattle of an oil burner... in fact.. I just got rid of my old gasser dodge truck in favor of an old ford diesel truck... 2 diesels i have now.. my good clean one a 1.5 ton for hauling, and this lighter 1 ton now for farm chores..... going for an all diesel family... ;)


soundguy
 
I was putting off going to 12 volt after paying $135 for 6 volt battery last year . Then have switch to 12 volt battery and lights , plus cost of the kit on top of that. Most of my plowing is done in the dark , either before work or after work . My drive way is over 300 yards long and I am too old to shovel that now !I did shovel it a few times when I was in my thiries . Last year we had the large earth graders out here plowing snow ! Regular snow removal trucks were stuck in drifts . We got hit over 24 inches of snow in 3 days , then we got high winds . All that snow from the open fields made huge drifts . We had snow removal people in here from other states ! That was the same time , they had to move football games because of the snow !
 
Well said Hobo.
The fiercest advocates for points here have never even tried EI.
Just as the fiercest advocates for 6V are generally from warmer areas of the country.
 
Played with so called electronic ingnition on a 38 Dodge back in the 50s.Couldnt see that it improved anything and added parts that could fail.The ignition went to the junk yard when the Dodge blew a piston.It didnt run any better or increase HP or gas mileage 100 percent.I dont like to call it electronic ignition be cause all gas engines we have now use electrons to make a spark.It amuses me the a bunch of suckers will pay 100 bucks for an epoxy turd with 4 bucks worth of parts in it.Met a fellow at a gun show that asked if there was an auto parts shop near by.His Ford truck just ate its 4th ignition module.I have had a chevy hei module flop backing out of the driveway.A friend lost a epoxy turd out on the highway.It cost him 300 bucks for a long tow and repair.A fellow had so much trouble with the ss ignition crapping out in a Dodge truck he went the junk yard for an older point distributor.My tractor has lost its spark twice in 24 years.Got it going by cleaning the points with a pocket knife.Points run hot and form oxides that insulate them.In any case after youve dropped a hundred on the epoxy turd you will need a 45,000 volt ignition coil and a dual exhaust system that will double the horsepower of your 9n.Just be carful that you dont strip all the teeth off the ring gear with the hugh increase in horsepower.
 
I bought a 6 volt battery last year for 58 bucks.That was a big increase from a few years before.I expect the loss in demand created by 12v convertor turkeys is responsible for the price hike in 6 volt batteries.Name the store where you paid 135 bucks for a 6 volt battery so we can all avoid it.All battery prices increased by 5 bucks a few years ago.
 
Have you ever actually installed EI on your tractor? Or are you one of those people who practice the usual form of contempt prior to investigation?

Do you use modern oils in yout tractor? Modern radials on your car? Transistors instead of tubes in your radio, TV or computer? Have a cellphone? Use modern gunpowder in your bullets? Get modern gas mileage and lengthly tune up intervals in your truck? Use a modern skillsaw, chainsaw or cordless drill? Enjoy modern medical technology?
If so why Coupe?
Why not go back to the 50s with all those things if everything was so good?
I'm not one of those who are Lost in the Fifties Coupe. Nor the 40s or 30s or whatever era it is that you so fondly remember and identify with.
EI for a 12V 8N sidemount is $73. That is not a lot of money Coupe. And it's not your money he's spending. Is it?
 
[i:654c4848f0]"I expect the loss in demand created by 12v convertor turkeys is responsible for the price hike in 6 volt batteries."[/i:654c4848f0]

LOL
Modern technology is gonna catch up with you like it or not Coupe. Already the points you buy are junk. Pretty soon you wont be able to get any at all.
Better get your order in now for EI before the price goes up.
 
Back when I was a young man , I had a 69 chevelle SS with a dual point distributor . That was a big pain keeping it running right ! It was like hitting a wall and it would start missing at a certain rpm . That was high tech back then !
 
You got ripped off w/ the battery. I get 6-8 years out of Deka batteries; $69. That price is about 10% higher than other 6v batteries.

A conversion to 12v & EI ($200 or so) might solve your problem of cold weather starts. But, you could just as easily have a 12v tractor w/ EI that won't start either.

If you parse out all the pro/con advice here, you will see that most everyone is telling you to solve the hard starting problem before you convert it to 12v or add EI.

You do not have a compression problem. You have a spark or fuel problem. Both can be resolved cheaply & easily if you systematically troubleshoot the problem.

No matter what else you do, the battery must be fully charged. A float charger is helpful. If you need to jump it, see tip # 43. No, it doesn’t need to be 12v. Plenty of N’s start just fine on 6v in below 0* temps.



Clean grounds & battery terminals are always important. Don’t forget to loosen the starter from the block (see tip # 36) and polish the block & all starter mating surfaces w/ sandpaper to insure a good electrical ground.



If you can’t remember the last time you replaced the battery cables, it’s time to do it. Just because the terminals are clean doesn’t mean there is no corrosion under the insulation. And, this is another case where size matters (see tip # 41)



A charged battery, clean grounds & new cables aren’t going to mean much if the tractor needs a tune-up. At a minimum, every fall, remove the cap (or distributor if it’s a front mount) check the points for pitting or burning, re-gap them & put a dab of lube on the cam. (BTW…..if you’ve wondered why some folks get years of use out of a set of points…….this is one of the reasons).



Distributor gaskets are important on a sidemount & critical on a frontmount. As is the gasket under the coil. Just like with the battery cables….if you can’t remember when you replaced the gaskets, do it this year.



Push the clutch in when you start the engine (tip # 29)



This tip won’t make it start easier, but it will make it run better: turn the main jet out ½ to 1 full turn for cold weather operating. Cold air is denser so you need a richer mixture.



At least ½ open throttle, key on & gas on 2 full turns; keep your hands off the choke until the engine is turning over! If you think an N floods easy in the summer, just wait until it’s 20*. If you flood it, the plugs are fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. Replace the plugs. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in lacquer thinner.



The general consensus seems to be that a battery blankets or magnetic oil pan heaters work better than lower radiator hose heaters or dipstick heaters. Freeze plug heaters are difficult to find for N’s because of the limited space in the water jacket. Magnetic oil pan heaters on the intake manifold will help as well. Or even a light bulb.



While water in gas today is unusual because of all the ethanol, it’s not unheard of. A little water goes a long way at 20*; use a fuel stabilizer.



This is one of my favorite quotes regarding cold weather starts:



"kilroy



07-25-2009 19:19:52

72.13.217.35

724129 <http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=nboard&th=724129>









my 48 8n is 6v with points in a front mount, and at -30 it fires right up, no block heater, just have to tend the choke for a minute. Have run in the rain and snow and have never had to dry the disributer, just used all the little gaskets and guess it sealed up. I like the points because if they do get wet, dry them, they work again, dont know if the electronics are that way but they cost alot more to replace than points I'm sure"
50 Tips
 
This past summer I more or less replaced the whole electrical system . I was out bush hogging down a huge brair patch and tractor wires came in contact with brairs . The brairs won ! They ripped out my wires ! My neighbor laughed seeing a little 600 pound atv towwing a 2500 pound tractor back to the house ! That little honda 450 foreman sure has some guts . The tractor ended up getting a new wiring harness , battery cables , voltage regulator , key switch and spark plug wires . My headlight wires were the only thing that didn't show signs of the fight !
 
nice tractor, great price

tractor outside, brutal cold and wind, deep snow
plowing with lights on...........

go 12 volts first, THEN go EI if wanted/needed
(6volt EI's are a little iffy, especially in real cold,
when the starter draws the battery down below the minimum
required by the EI)

for what you paid for the tractor, you could do 12v AND EI
and still be in the great deal territory

read the post by Bruce and others to get your tractor
at its absolute best BEFORE you do either
good luck
 
[i:654c4848f0]"my 48 8n is 6v with points in a front mount, and at -30 it fires right up, no block heater, just have to tend the choke for a minute. Have run in the rain and snow and have never had to dry the disributer, just used all the little gaskets and guess it sealed up. I like the points because if they do get wet, dry them, they work again, dont know if the electronics are that way but they cost alot more to replace than points I'm sure"[/i:654c4848f0]

Another advantage to having EI is water doesn't cause it to short out in the distributer.
On a front mount N with a snow plow, fine drifting snow can still get in there even with good gaskets.
It's one thing to have to dry out your distributer cap when it's - 10 degrees and you're laying in a snow bank. It's entirely another to have to dry out the internals of your dist if it gets wet.
That "little epoxy turd" is sealed and doesn't short out.
 
I agree with Ultradog MN on converting from standard to Electronic Ignition on the purchasing of points, condensers, etc. Plus the fact trying to get a 6 volt tractor battery.

I made that decision back in early 2000 to switch from the points system to EI. The initial converting cost is there, but, once done the cost factor is basis zero. Of course one must understand the engine has to be in very good to good running condition.

I just recently switch back to the "original" factory look on my 8N. I no longer have the 12 volt Alternator setting out there on the right front side. I've taken my original 6 volt generator and had a person in Ohio to install 12 volt armature, 12 volt field coils, and new bearing, etc. Also, re-install a 12 volt voltage regulator, and wired it all back to the original writing factory settings. The 8N now looks just like a 6 volt system with the exception there's a EI module in the distributor instead of points, condenser parts and a 12 volt round canister coil mounted on the engine. However, there is one slight difference, the carburetor is a Zenith type.
 
I drive a big truck for a living and I asked one of the old mechanic's at work about it . He told me to throw away the tarp to cover it ! Said all it does is drawl in moisture , is doing more harm than good . I wish I could have seen better out in the dark , to see moisture under the cap . I wasn't working in ideal conditions , it was dark , snowing , windy and damn cold ! It started 3 days later in my garage and I hadn't even had time to work on it . I had been out digging myself out and working long hours . I just tried it , it fired right up , surprised me !
 
I called around to find a battery . They were the only one who could get it within a few days . They don't sell deka batteries in this area . NAPA said it was a special order battery and would take a week to ten days to get and would have to pay inadvance . Most told me they no longer sell 6 volt batteries .
 
I never buy things I dont need.I still hunt with a muzzle loading shot gun and rifle.I have several tube radios.I have a cellphone thats turned off, my wife insists I have one because I work in the woods alone.I have several hand saws and bow saws and use them often.This is my wifes computer.I use it because its here..The cell phone is the biggest pest ever invented.My 54 Ford tractor does all the work I need.I keep a few hens for fresh eggs and kept a milk cow for many years.I use the things I need and reject things I dont need.My house and barn were built in 1806 and they suit me fine.I cook my meals on a wood burning stove most of the year.Life is changing.On a trip with my wife driving I notice every house large and small has a big pile of sawed firewood in the yard.At 73 bucks the epoxy turd is a big rip off.Im too old to see the end of gas and oil but its coming.Its going to be a big mess.
 
(quoted from post at 17:06:39 09/11/11) This is my wifes computer.I use it because its here
Click to expand...
You use it because without it and the digital technology that connects it to the rest of the world virtually nobody would hear your voice. I'm still not sure if that counts as a strike against technology or not.


TOH
 
(quoted from post at 15:12:25 09/11/11) [i:49b10bfac3]"my 48 8n is 6v with points in a front mount, and at -30 it fires right up, no block heater, just have to tend the choke for a minute. Have run in the rain and snow and have never had to dry the disributer, just used all the little gaskets and guess it sealed up. I like the points because if they do get wet, dry them, they work again, dont know if the electronics are that way but they cost alot more to replace than points I'm sure"[/i:49b10bfac3]

Another advantage to having EI is water doesn't cause it to short out in the distributer.
On a front mount N with a snow plow, fine drifting snow can still get in there even with good gaskets.
It's one thing to have to dry out your distributer cap when it's - 10 degrees and you're laying in a snow bank. It's entirely another to have to dry out the internals of your dist if it gets wet.
That "little epoxy turd" is sealed and doesn't short out.
Click to expand...

The archives are full of misinformed info,,,info folks used to become a Guru... They and their gang have been proved wrong before using that info... I have asked the naysayers simple EI questions one time,,, they all when and hid under a rock... I spec to them you are a liar...
 
I'm still getting a chuckel out of this.....

1. We move to MN in 71 and onto the farm. I was still in school and many of my new found friends were farm kids. There were a bunch of farmers here who were still farming with 6 volt tractors, some with dizzies and some with mags. Most of em had a hard time getting em to start when the temps dipped below +20F. At 0F they had em plugged in overnight when thay had to use em the next day. At -30F most used a car or truck to TRY to pull start em!

2. When my dad was a kid he worked from his uncle who had an auto electric repair shop (mid 30's). That was the day of rebuildable lead acid batteries! My dad was always on people about "clean tight and bright". HE bought a AC CA, rebuilt the engine with new pistons and everything plus had the valves done. It had a magnito that he rebuilt that had good hot spark. 10WT winter oil and that thing was a nightmare to start under -10F and it was converted to 12 volt! Plug in the block heater for 4 ours, put the battery booster on it, say a few prayers and just maybe if you held your face right it would start at -30!

3. Back in the day when everything was 6 volt they sold a barn cleaning system that consisted of a bucket and a rail. In warm weather when those new or nearly new 6 volt tractors would be hooked to the manure spreader and parked so that when they cleaned barn, forking manure into the bucket by hand, they would then push the bucket outside and over the spreader and dump it. In the winter when those new pretty shiny 6 volt tractor wouldn't start they whould run the bucket outside and just dump it on the ground and then in the spring load it and spread it. Some even went so far as to build fires unter the tractors to try to warm them!


I wish someone with a tractor that still 6 volt would park that thing in my yard, outside exposed to the elements, with no heat source and show me how well it starts at -30F!

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 20:48:25 09/11/11) I'm still getting a chuckel out of this.....

1. We move to MN in 71 and onto the farm. I was still in school and many of my new found friends were farm kids. There were a bunch of farmers here who were still farming with 6 volt tractors, some with dizzies and some with mags. Most of em had a hard time getting em to start when the temps dipped below +20F. At 0F they had em plugged in overnight when thay had to use em the next day. At -30F most used a car or truck to TRY to pull start em!

2. When my dad was a kid he worked from his uncle who had an auto electric repair shop (mid 30's). That was the day of rebuildable lead acid batteries! My dad was always on people about "clean tight and bright". HE bought a AC CA, rebuilt the engine with new pistons and everything plus had the valves done. It had a magnito that he rebuilt that had good hot spark. 10WT winter oil and that thing was a nightmare to start under -10F and it was converted to 12 volt! Plug in the block heater for 4 ours, put the battery booster on it, say a few prayers and just maybe if you held your face right it would start at -30!

3. Back in the day when everything was 6 volt they sold a barn cleaning system that consisted of a bucket and a rail. In warm weather when those new or nearly new 6 volt tractors would be hooked to the manure spreader and parked so that when they cleaned barn, forking manure into the bucket by hand, they would then push the bucket outside and over the spreader and dump it. In the winter when those new pretty shiny 6 volt tractor wouldn't start they whould run the bucket outside and just dump it on the ground and then in the spring load it and spread it. Some even went so far as to build fires unter the tractors to try to warm them!


I wish someone with a tractor that still 6 volt would park that thing in my yard, outside exposed to the elements, with no heat source and show me how well it starts at -30F!

Rick
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o offense intended, &amp; it is clearly your choice, but, I do know that if it were me that I would solve that -30 cold start problem the very first time it occurred..........I would move!!!!!!!!!!!! FYI, I'm cold anywhere below 70F.
 
For 10 years or more I've been reading the same reasons for not installing EI on a tractor, usually from the same bunch of people. But I installed it on my own tractor a few years ago and it has worked good and to me was worth the dough. I don't really care how a fellow spends his money, or doesn't. Nor do I care whether he uses points or EI.
It's not my business in the least.
I also know I'm not winning any popularity contests by these frequent battles. But I don't care much about that either.
All I'm trying to do is clear the smoke and expose the mirrors.
When the day comes that a fellow can ask how to install EI on his tractor and he gets some legitimate HELP - with pictures, diagrams and drawings - without a lot of dire warnings, denunciations and heresay - I'll figure I have contributed something of value to this board.
 



LOL the natives up here call it God's country.......in the winter it's a god forsaken frozen waste land!

Me I like cooler temps, 20-60 is good......but -30F is down right brutal!

Rick
 
There is a battery used in Early Ford cars that is hard to find, groupe 2L but the tractors use a common battery size.Sams Club and TSC stock the battery at just under 60 bucks.I put a new battery in my 640 last year for that price.batterys may be higher now because of high scrap prices.Walmart does not stock 6v batterys which I find odd because there are a lot of old tractors here.NAPA is getting 14 bucks for a 6203 bearing .I never paid over a buck each a few years ago.You have be careful when you buy now.Lowes and Home depot sell 3/8x 3.5 carriage bolts for 54 cents each.I buy them by the pound for 12 cents each.
 
I have a good supply of original Ford points on hand.The points from the V8 and 6 cylinder Ford cars and trucks will fit the n series tractor.Side mount points are the same as cars and trucks.There no shortage of US made points and condensors.Blue Streak makes them in the USA.Friends have a 9n and 8n so I keep a few parts for tractors.I can repair Ford generators and starters,turning the armatures if needed.Delco made points and condensors for Ford cars trucks and tractors.I have condensors for Fords made by Delco.Need points for a 38 Dodge or Indian motor cycle,I have them.I was working for a Ford dealer when the 57 Ford was a new car.I bought and sold parts for many years.There no shortage of good parts for the old tractors.I have a sign in my shop that says this.If you want good clean oats you must pay a fair price,If you are willing to buy oats that have already been thru the horse they are cheaper.This holds true for tractor parts.
 
yikes. I think I would have hotwired it and drove it back.

really only need the spark polug wires hooked up and a wire from bat to coil.

ps.. if sparks are good.. ei won't specifically help you.

suggest you look at fuel if it is hard starting.

soundguy
 
LOL Sound. Last winter the N got new plugs point and condenser, new batt and 00 cables. Was running 90-105 compression and had a fresh rebuild on the carb. Wouldn't start at -30 without a boost, at 0 pull the choke, step on the clutch, hit the starter and she would fire right up.....leave the choke at about 3/4 for a couple of min....was good to go! Same with dads CA except you had to apply heat on it too by plugging it in for a while before starting. We did everyting to that CA, engine, mag rebuild carb.....just a cold natured tractor.

What I'd really like to know is where some people say they have had/seen 6 volts start at -30.......was that -30 wind chill????? -30C????? Or was that -30F, no wind or the wind chill being much lower than that????

Up here ask for the temp you get the temp, in F, witout wind chill. Someone wants to state windchill they tell tell you it's -30 with a -50 windchill.

Rick
 
Most of em had a hard time getting em to start when the temps dipped below +20F.
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I don't want my tractor to start at 20* , if it is too cold for the tractor to start , then it is too cold for my candy arse to be outside , grin .


I think we have about 4 or 5 days a year that the low temp drops into the teens .
 


Well Ken you sould experance this! Come visit in Jan or Feb :shock: ......Like I said it can be brutal....and of corse something is going the break when it's -30 and yer gonna have to cold figer it to make the repair :evil: .....and the day after it's fixed it will get to +15 or so :cry: !
 
Generally, there is a reason the "electronic turd" fails. Usually it's a voltage spike caused by someone removing a clamping diode or a poor connection...
 
(quoted from post at 18:04:16 09/10/11) Any body have a picture of an installed system and what it looks like under the cap on a side mount distributor ? Wanting to make mine easier to start in cold wet weather .
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ell, thornvilleloboy, your question was really very simple, but............ain't it just typical of the responses we see here way too often.........you got 51 one answers to a question(s) that you didn't ask and not a single response to the one that you did ask! Amazing, huh....as Dell would say. Where is he anyway? No see in a day.
Well, I can't 'exactly' answer your question either, but can come closer than 51 people did. This is a Jubilee/NAA, but I have held the 8N kit in my hand and it is very, very similar. HTHs.
Pertronix_Jub1.jpg
 

Thank you for the great photo JMOR.
Did you just take this? I have not seen it before. I agree that is all he asked for. Would have done it myself but don't own a 4 cyl. It does show how blessedly simple an EI installation is. Maybe someone could snap a similar pic of EI on a front mount...
If in the future we could just answer questions about electronic ignition WITHOUT all the jealous references to points the board would be a more harmonious place.
To also quote Dell here; "Simple eh?"
 
(quoted from post at 16:28:28 09/13/11)
(quoted from post at 08:59:13 09/13/11)
Maybe someone could snap a similar pic of EI on a front mount...
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here ya go UD
This one also has a coil conversion
pertronixfrontmount.jpg
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Excellent.
They have been such a mystery for so long. But it was all smoke and mirrors. Anyone can see from your and JMOR's photos how easy they are to do.
Thanks.
I hope you didn't have to pull that distributer just to post the picture. But if you did, Double Thanks!!
 
All I wanted to do was get it out of the briars ! They ripped my t-shirt and I was bleeding from several wounds . I was digging out thorns for several days later ! They were ripping me up as bad as my wires on the tractor .
 
I want to thank you , that is what I was wanting to see ! Looks real simple with no mods and if I want to , could return it points later if I wanted to . I see it does harm distributor at all , so returning back , there is no tell tale signs of it being changed !
 
You are welcome. I was mainly prompted by the all too often responses on not just EI but nearly any topic where responders fail to answer a simple question such as yours and instead run off on their opinions/irrelevant experiences/etc. Just one of my many pet peeves, I guess. It does not mean I am a proponent (or opponent) of EI for these old Fords, as I have two Ns plus other tractors, combine, old trucks, etc., all still with points. A person just needs to know the facts, go in eyes wide open, make their own choices on how to spend their money. I know how & what I am doing, comfortable with it & really like being able to fix my equipment out in the field/in the boonies with what I have in my pocket. Everybody isn't the same. Different strokes for different folks. Have a good tractor day! :)
 
That flag terminal on the coil could draw an arc from the hi tension lead.That will wipe out the hall effect transistor.My 640 has arced down the coil tower when it was raining.This may be the reason for failure of many epoxy turds.
 

For 5 years I carried around a bubble packed set of new points and condensor under the hood of my tractor thinking if the EI ever failed I could just install the points and keep on trucking. Failure never occured so I ended up using the points in another tractor.
 
You may have had worn spark plugs.Tests on a flathead Ford on the 1/4 mile proved that a magneto was no better than the stock dual point ignition.The current practice of putting an ignition coil on top of a hot spark plug is a perfect example of stupid engineering.Ford has some trucks that have to have the cab lifted to remove spark plugs.
 
(quoted from post at 08:36:33 09/15/11) The current practice of putting an ignition coil on top of a hot spark plug is a perfect example of stupid engineering.
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Hmmm - once again you are at odds with the modern world professionals. I don't suppose there is any chance those stupid engineers considered the heat issue or did anything in the way of thermal isolation using space age materials when they design coil-on-plug (COP) systems. Here is what Delphi thinks about their stupid COP design team:

The Delphi Advantage

Delphi has a deep understanding of ignition systems and the combustion process. We offer the benefits of more than 100 years' experience in ignition systems and today we build millions annually.

• Improved dwell accuracy decreases module and coil temperatures for greater reliability
• Noise abatement material between laminations reduces audible coil noise
• Cassettes have improved primary connector for greater ease of assembly compared to designs with one connector for
each coil
• Lower primary inductance provides high-speed performance
• Early and precise electronic spark timing helps improve fuel economy and provides faster crank-to-run
• Higher energy delivered to combustible mixture provides cleaner combustion to help manufacturers meet on-board
diagnostics (OBD II) requirements
• Direct connection to spark plugs (via small boot) eliminates spark plug wires
• Composite iron coils provide programmable energy
• Coil per cylinder dwell overlap electronics deliver better high speed performance and better heat dissipation compared
to some conventional technologies
• Coil per cylinder ramp and fire electronics decrease power dissipation and increase efficiency

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 09:38:36 09/15/11)
(quoted from post at 08:36:33 09/15/11) The current practice of putting an ignition coil on top of a hot spark plug is a perfect example of stupid engineering.
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Hmmm - once again you are at odds with the modern world professionals. I don't suppose there is any chance those stupid engineers considered the heat issue or did anything in the way of thermal isolation using space age materials when they design coil-on-plug (COP) systems. Here is what Delphi thinks about their stupid COP design team:

The Delphi Advantage

Delphi has a deep understanding of ignition systems and the combustion process. We offer the benefits of more than 100 years' experience in ignition systems and today we build millions annually.

• Improved dwell accuracy decreases module and coil temperatures for greater reliability
• Noise abatement material between laminations reduces audible coil noise
• Cassettes have improved primary connector for greater ease of assembly compared to designs with one connector for
each coil
• Lower primary inductance provides high-speed performance
• Early and precise electronic spark timing helps improve fuel economy and provides faster crank-to-run
• Higher energy delivered to combustible mixture provides cleaner combustion to help manufacturers meet on-board
diagnostics (OBD II) requirements
• Direct connection to spark plugs (via small boot) eliminates spark plug wires
• Composite iron coils provide programmable energy
• Coil per cylinder dwell overlap electronics deliver better high speed performance and better heat dissipation compared
to some conventional technologies
• Coil per cylinder ramp and fire electronics decrease power dissipation and increase efficiency

TOH
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ow come on here, TOH! If 36coupe didn't have something/someone to complain about, run down, criticize, whine about, b!tch about, etc., the old feller just couldn't make it through the day.

Sad part is that if I make it to 86, I may be a mirror image. :cry:
 
Take a close look at the epoxy turd and tell me why you would drop 100 bucks on it.Mark up is 20 times what it cost to build.My Lincoln welder cost 93 bucks and weighs over 100 pounds.
 
(quoted from post at 02:46:23 09/16/11) Take a close look at the epoxy turd and tell me why you would drop 100 bucks on it.Mark up is 20 times what it cost to build.My Lincoln welder cost 93 bucks and weighs over 100 pounds.
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Are you related to Ted Kaczynski? He shares a lot of your anti technology views.
 
(quoted from post at 05:52:22 09/15/11) You admit to using obsolete points in a tractor.
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Is this a question or a statement?
If it is a question it should have had a question mark at the end of it.
If it is a statement I wonder why you would feel the need to parrot me.
Either way it is silly because I just said I used the points in another tractor.
 
Im not anti technology.Spent most of my working years in electronics.I choose what I can use and reject the swindles.
 
You admit to using old methods when it suits you. at the same time you ridicule me for using points.You are several bricks short of a load.I give you the finger ultra mutt .You insult dogs as are they are smarter than you.
 
The computer and the cell phone are an awful pest.Wife and I were at a friends cook out Sunday.Woman sitting across for me was trying to eat, but a cell phone pest wouldnt leave her alone even after she said she was trying to eat several times.Drivers with cell phones are a menace on the road.The computer is used by strange types to send out viruses to other computers.Pedophiles use the computer a lot.
 
(quoted from post at 01:53:16 09/17/11) The computer and the cell phone are an awful pest.Wife and I were at a friends cook out Sunday.Woman sitting across for me was trying to eat, but a cell phone pest wouldnt leave her alone even after she said she was trying to eat several times.Drivers with cell phones are a menace on the road.The computer is used by strange types to send out viruses to other computers.Pedophiles use the computer a lot.
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36 that is just funny, my cell phone can be turned OFF! Heck a lot of the time I don't even carry it with me. Lots of things can distract you. SIL wrecked a car cause she was distracted by a bee. How many have been wrecked by someone trying to change a tape or cd or just the station on the radio.

I've got a swather, M IH and the 8N plus 8 small engines and 2 outboards to maintain every year. Anything that reduces the work load is great cause I have livestock and fields to work on too, plus I like to annoy people on here. I don't care if you run points or not. Thats up to you. I don't as of yet have a heated shop so 4 months of the years not much gets worked on.

Now the original poster ask a simple question. Most of us, you, me and others ignored that and gave our exalted opinions and have turned this into a circus.

Now me, I'm hard headed. If I had been in your camp and not been a fan of EI conversions having never done one but having owned vehicles with EI you would have convinced me to try it because you are so against them without justifiable cause from what I can see.

I can change points no problem, rebuild carbs, engines, staters, genny's, auto trannies too. Know all about dwell and timing. Don't mean I want to do that every day or even once a year. Because I use my stuff that's not a hobby it's work. Heck between the haybine and balers I've spent a good 60 hours repairing things just this spring. Having to rebuild the carb, put new points and condenser, plus rewire and convert to 12 volt the M this spring in between rain storms wasn't what I call fun. It wasn't bad but I wouldn't say gee when I got nothing else to do I want to pull the rollers out of the round baler and replace bearings!

Rick
 
Getting them started is the easy part, keeping an engine running is the problem now.The gas seems to be fire proof under 30 degrees.Never had any trouble cleaning the barn when I worked on a dairy farm .We used a horse and tip cart.Spreading manure on frozen ground is stupid.I worked part time on a dairy farm in the early 60s.A 48 Ford 6v dump truck hauled manure away from the barn all winter.In extreme cold a battery charger was used because of the short run time of the truck.Not to start the truck but to charge the battery after it had come back from dumping the load.A Ford 8n 6v kept the long drive way plowed all winter.We kept the equipment in good repair so it would start in cold weather.In any case a spreader full of frozen manure will ruin your day.
 
(quoted from post at 04:22:57 09/17/11) Getting them started is the easy part, keeping an engine running is the problem now.The gas seems to be fire proof under 30 degrees.Never had any trouble cleaning the barn when I worked on a dairy farm .We used a horse and tip cart.Spreading manure on frozen ground is stupid.I worked part time on a dairy farm in the early 60s.A 48 Ford 6v dump truck hauled manure away from the barn all winter.In extreme cold a battery charger was used because of the short run time of the truck.Not to start the truck but to charge the battery after it had come back from dumping the load.A Ford 8n 6v kept the long drive way plowed all winter.We kept the equipment in good repair so it would start in cold weather.In any case a spreader full of frozen manure will ruin your day.
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Parts of the country stacking manure isn't good. Here, when it's time to plant that stacked manure will still be frozen hard. Been there done that kinda thing. So it sits all summer cause you ain't gonna drive over a planted field to spread it. So farmers here spread on frozen ground cause they really had no other options till manure pits came into being. Don't get me wrong, we made that old 6 volt stuff work when it was -30F with no wind chill because we had to. I spent time helping dad when I was home on leave milking, then several hours on well maintained tractors just to get em started some days.....and that was with the old gas not the stuff we have now. That AC CA whould start pretty good if the block heated was plugged in for four hours, booster on and the plugs pulled daily and pre heated in the oven! Them kinda temps the 1206 diesel starts better than the M or the N, just start cranking and push the ether assist button!. And the M may be ok this winter cause of the 12 volt conversion, going to find out! Maybe I shold go EI on that too.....

Rick
 
I think that telling a 12 volter or pertronix nut that they have blown a lot of money on things they dont need.They know it and get wild when you remind them.Its a lot like telling a fellow his wife has become the town pump.You stand a good chance of getting punched in the mouth.The Romans used to kill the messenger that brought bad news.There are 111,000 entries on pertronix problems if you look.My chief objection is the cost of the pertronix epoxy turds.There are 2 or 3 parts that are not worth over 3 bucks in the module.Nothing is fail proof.I have seen many failures with SS ignitions.I have had a point spring break on the road in an old Ford.Fixed it for 4 bucks, dual points Genuine Ford parts.If an epoxy turd fails when you have hay down you will lose the hay.I have spare points and condenser in a bubble pack hanging on the shop wall.Been there over 20 years.I have had my tractor stop twice in 24 years.Clean the points with a pocket knife, back to work.A fellow with and old AC round baler said he had all the rollers fall out the back of the baler.
 
Im getting old and foolish but I would never go mowing in a briar patch.I am getting so I look at the forums just to see the 12v conversion turkeys and the pertronix nuts get wild.The gun bugs and welders are pretty good too.
 
(quoted from post at 08:09:53 09/17/11)
........ they have blown a lot of money on things they dont need......
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You should have just a pair of mules that dont have points to replace .
 
(quoted from post at 08:09:53 09/17/11) There are 111,000 entries on pertronix problems if you look.
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That's the type of "statistic" that I find incredibly stupid and downright deceptive when politicians toss similar nuggets out in support of their political agendas. Care to share where you searched and what search criteria you used? Here are my results:

A search of the YT N-forum archives for "Pertronix + problems" returns 183 hits.

A search of the YT N-forum archives for "Electroinc + ignition + problems" returns 454 hits.

A search of the YT N-forum archives for "points + problems" returns 7,595 hits

What does that tell you about the relative reliabilty of EI in general or Pertronix specifically vs. points? Absolutely nothing and if you think it does you are either a fool and/or totally clueless when it comes to the proper application of statistics.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 05:19:47 09/17/11) Im getting old and foolish but I would never go mowing in a briar patch.I am getting so I look at the forums just to see the 12v conversion turkeys and the pertronix nuts get wild.The gun bugs and welders are pretty good too.
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You just don't stop do you? I can come up with a few reasons to convert to 12 volt but only one for staying with 6. Only reason to stay with 6 volt is for a trailer queen that gets used for parades and shows. On the other hand alternators are more reliable than generators, 6 volt is getting harder to find, chargers with a 6 volt setting are getting harder to find, other people in a pinch have no problem jumping them instead of having to know how to jump from 12 to 6. I can mount a plug in for my cell phone :twisted: and change cd's in my player :twisted: and other wise be destracted while plowing too :lol: :lol: ! Plus I can get one of those plug in coolers to keep my beer cold :shock: :shock: ! ROFL!!!!!!!!


Rick
 
(quoted from post at 05:35:18 09/16/11) You forgot to mention high failure rate and price.
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I also forgot to mention that along with significantly improved performace there are no plug wires, distributor, cap, or rotor to fail, replace, or service - [b:cce3d2bdb4][u:cce3d2bdb4]EVER[/u:cce3d2bdb4][/b:cce3d2bdb4].

For my 1997 Dakota a set of quailty plug wires costs $32 and a cap and rotor costs $24. I changed the wires once and the cap and rotor several times in the 200K+ miles I owned that truck. It's called a tune-up. That is routine maintenace on the vehicle and it's something every one that has a vehicle with a distributor expects to do one or more times.

My 2004 Ram 1500 5.7L Hemi with coil on plugs has no HT wires or distributor to maintain or service - EVER. A replacement COP module costs $42 should it ever fail - none have in the first 110K.

So even though the failure rate of an individual COP module probably is slightly higher than an old style coil which had a near zero rate the very short MTBF of the HV wires, caps, and rotors that went with it has been totally eliminated. And I suspect more than one engineering study has been conducted and found that vehicle performnce is significantly improved, that the overall MTBF of the COP system is lower, that it reduces vehicle manufacturing costs (e.g price), and that it costs the vehicle owner less to maintain over the life of the vehicle. That's why I don't beleive the engineers are "dumb" in the slightest. The real dummies are the people who focus on one tiny "statistic" in an effort to justify their preconceived distaste and suspicion of all things new and miss the bigger picture.

TOH

PS&gt; Anecdotal data - I have three distributor-less vehicles with over 400K combined miles and not a single coil-pack failure to date.
 
(quoted from post at 08:19:07 09/17/11)
(quoted from post at 05:35:18 09/16/11) You forgot to mention high failure rate and price.
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I also forgot to mention that along with significantly improved performace there are no plug wires, distributor, cap, or rotor to fail, replace, or service - [b:10b1273c17][u:10b1273c17]EVER[/u:10b1273c17][/b:10b1273c17].

For my 1997 Dakota a set of quailty plug wires costs $32 and a cap and rotor costs $24. I changed the wires once and the cap and rotor several times in the 200K+ miles I owned that truck. It's called a tune-up. That is routine maintenace on the vehicle and it's something every one that has a vehicle with a distributor expects to do one or more times.

My 2004 Ram 1500 5.7L Hemi with coil on plugs has no HT wires or distributor to maintain or service - EVER. A replacement COP module costs $42 should it ever fail - none have in the first 110K.

So even though the failure rate of an individual COP module probably is slightly higher than an old style coil which had a near zero rate the very short MTBF of the HV wires, caps, and rotors that went with it has been totally eliminated. And I suspect more than one engineering study has been conducted and found that vehicle performnce is significantly improved, that the overall MTBF of the COP system is lower, that it reduces vehicle manufacturing costs (e.g price), and that it costs the vehicle owner less to maintain over the life of the vehicle. That's why I don't beleive the engineers are "dumb" in the slightest. The real dummies are the people who focus on one tiny "statistic" in an effort to justify their preconceived distaste and suspicion of all things new and miss the bigger picture.

TOH

PS&gt; Anecdotal data - I have three distributor-less vehicles with over 400K combined miles and not a single coil-pack failure to date.
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Great reply TOH! I'm going to add that I know some old farmers back in the day didn't want to convert to electric start cause they could hand crank, convert from Magnitos to distributers cause the Mag worked, from horses to tractors, milking by hand to milkers and so on. I met one old guy around 72 or 73 who refused to buy a bale elevator cause he had always put hay in the mow by hand......he was 81, still milking and the farmer I worked for and I helped him out first cutting.....the next cutting my boss towed his elevator over and we used that......that old guy went a got an elevator a few days later!

I kinda like the 100K tuneup interval myself on the newer cars and trucks! If we were not progressive we would be chiseling these words in stone!

Rick
 
I'll stay out of the argument, but would like to add that 6v chargers are readilly available.

Most electric golf carts still use bans of 6v LA batteries.

walmart sells a 12/6v schumacker charger.. so does napa ( napa brand ).. and advance auto.

chinese store sells a 6v charger.. not to mention you can make one out of an old phone power xformer and 3$ of radio shack hardware.

as for alternators being more reliable. Nope.. sorry.

the gennies on my tractors are decades old. New cars and trucks seem to get about 10ys out of a oem starter and alternator and then you start the cycle of replacing the remans every 3-5 ys.

i work at a general contractor.. 90% of our equipment is new enough to have alternators.. some of them are early external reg alts.. most are newer internal reg alts. the other 10% are from the 60's with gennies.

I've been at that company since 87 on and off till 93, and from 93 till now full time.

I know of 1 genny we have replaced. ALL of the external alts, many times on various equipment.. and alts on the newer equipment every few years.

takes 1 second hooking a bat backwards to cook an alt. An alt on some of hese machines runs 350$.. that 350$ cooks in 1 second. :(

now.. For people that want or need an alt.. go for it. no argument that if you have more electrical needs than 18-25a and alt is sure the way to go. If you need low rpm charging for an idleing machine and need amps.. an alt is the way to go... gennies suck at making power at idle... they are however darn robust and very fault tolerant.

jumping a 6v machine is easy.. just takes 10 more seconds and a handfull of common sense.

as for parade queens the only use.

naa... if I buy a tractor and fix it up and it has an operating 6v system.. no reason for me to go buy a 70$ battery, 55$ alternator and the the brackets to change it over, plus other new electrics.

it's unneeded cost.

I have a mix of 6v and 12v machines.. they all run, start, and charge. any that came with gennies, still have them.. any that came with alts.. still ahve them.

couple came with nada, or bad alts.. and those went to gennies. Out of the gennies, about60% are 6v.. the rest are 12v. and work fine.

now.. back to the fighting!

soundguy
 

Sound I hate to say this....er no I don't, but the average genny of yesteryear got brushes adn bushings which is a repair about every 80-90K miles. Last time I had an Alternator apart it had 235,000 miles on it. SUV before that never had an Alternator problem and traded it with just over 200K on it. So I's say that they are a tad more reliable. In fact I've never had an alternator go out with less than 180K on it. When I was first driving most of the stuff I could afford had gennies.....I've repalced a few sets of brushes and bushings.

As far as battery chargers go I only have a large one with 200 AMP boost. The one I have now that's about on it's last legs has 6 volt but all of the new large ones I've looked at don't have a 6 volt setting. I have no need or desire to have a small charger, I'm looking for one with 300-400 amp boost on it. My local NAPA has one charger in stock with 6 volt and it's so small that I will not even consider it. Nearest farm supply place only carries small chargers with 6 volt. Maybe they can get one but I'm not fooling myself. Chargers that have a 6 volt setting are fast becoming a thing of the past. I didn't mean to say you or give the impression that you could not find them but they are getting harder to find. I replace the VR on my M twice in 2 years because 2 different sons burnt the VRs up. Not quite sure how but they did. I haven't had any problems sense converting to an alternator.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 14:55:57 09/17/11) Go look again.Not in the YT forum.Just type in pertronix ignition problems in yahoo or google.
Click to expand...

No sense in arguing with you 36.......seeing as yer always right but I'm going over to EI when I finish my rebuild anyways. 12 Volt too.

Rick
 
Do a search on coil pak failure .I got 3 million results.One fellow lost 2 at 100 bucks a pop aftermarket, more for oringal parts.
 
(quoted from post at 17:55:57 09/17/11) Go look again.Not in the YT forum.Just type in pertronix ignition problems in yahoo or google.
Click to expand...

I quess you are just too stubborn and proud to let it go and acknowldege thosse numbers are worthless. A similar query to Google with "ignition point problems" returns 25 million hits.That sort of a metric is utterly worthless for a whole host of reasons. Consider you are also getting hits for content that has wording like "Pertronix electromic ignitions eliminate many of the problems inherent in traditional contact breaker point systems". Repeat after me - "yes I realize that such numbers are meaningless as a reliabilty metric" If you want to defend your position feel free - but don't expect people to be swayed by absolutely bogus numbers - it only reduces your credibilty which is already greatly in question.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 18:05:56 09/17/11) Do a search on coil pak failure .I got 3 million results.One fellow lost 2 at 100 bucks a pop aftermarket, more for oringal parts.
Click to expand...

I got 17 million Google hits for "ignition point failures". And I lost a distributor for a 1994 Ford Probe - cost me $650 for a new OEM unit. OEM coil packs on my two Cadillacs cost about half that and I haven't lost one yet. Read my lips - search engine hit counts neither prove, disprove, or even vaquely support any of your cost and reliabilty clains. It's a bullsh!t metric. Give it up before you get a pig-headed Dufus reputation you will never shake.

TOH
 
I gotta take some exception to a few of your comments Soundguy.
On alternators vs generators - I usually run my pickups about 150 K miles before I trade.
I have had 5 new pickups since about 1990 and never replaced an alternator on any of them. Never had to oil the bushings, never had to replace brushes either. Nada.
Also when it comes to replacing an alternator, for most people they take it in to Oreilly's and have it checked. If it is bad you buy another one and install it. No deciphering if it's the Vreg or the genny that crapped out on you. No flashing bat to arm. Alternator is easy. Just plug and play.
As for jumping a 6v tractor off of 12v. Just a number I'm picking out of thin air here but I'll bet 70% of Americans know how to jump 12v to 12v.
I'll bet when the task is to safely jump 6v off of 12v that number falls down to under 10%.
Also, you speak of common sense. Electrical common sense is not so common. Just look at the number of electrical questions here. Again, a number I'm picking out of thin air here but I'll bet a full 25% of the questions here are electrical.
Some guys like yourself just can not seem to grasp that electrics are not easy for most people to get their head around.
I really do think that a fellow ought to be able to enjoy owning a tractor WITHOUT having to own a multimeter. If he pays someone to install 12V with an alternator, new wiring harness and install EI for him he will likely NOT have to touch his electrics other than to clean his battery posts a couple of times between battery changes. And he could probably avoid even that drugery if he uses dielectric grease.
 
They simply ARE NOT getting harder to find. I don't have an auto store in my 3 city area that DOES NOT have one. a internet search ( you know you CAN buy things online nowadays ) had 17 PAGES of hits for '6v charger' I got tired of looking after 3 pages... 6v chargers are out there.. plus anyone with half a brain and a couple bucks worth of radio shack parts can MAKE one.....

as for needing a 400a boost on 6v.. that begs the question of why? Are you trying to jump start 3 N's with dead batteries in parallel at one time?

most places that sell motorcycle parts also sell 6v chargers.. same with electric carts.

if for some reason you have a use for a 6v 400A booster and really need one, buy a gold cart battery and a 1a 12/6 float charger and a light duty hand cart and a set of good 12v 0 jumper cables, and 2 battery terminal ends and a bunji cord and a 2' piece of 1x3 wood

bunji the battery to the hand cart, remove one set of cables and add ends.. attach to battery, attach flaot to battery. when not in use, plug in.. when needed, roll cord up and roll cart to the item needing that HUGE boost you speak of.. attach cables and go. when cables not needed, attach to the 1x3 wood that is lashed mid way up the cart frame as an insulator.

you can get that rig for about 100$ if you shop around..

turn the batteries sideways, pop in an isolator a/b switch and drop in a 12v car battery, up the price to 175$ and you can do 6v OR 12v

I'm an electronics guy.. and simply have never had an alternator in a piece of equipment or vehicle, new or not, ever last.. certaintly not into the 200K range. Hard to get them into the 100k range... Just what I've seen on my vehicles I have to maintain, plus our fleet of vehicles at work.

still laughing about that 400a 6v booster you need. Man that must be a huge 6v tractor!!!

soundguy
 
I have repaired generators and alternators as a business for 40 years.Break downs are about 50 /50.Alternators with a bad internal regulators will destroy the battery every time.Alternators have small brushes that wear faster than generator brushes.I have a JD H that I bought in 1966.Had to take the generator out when I replaced the muffler.Looked at the generator brushes ,they were ok.Replaced a rusty screw. Ive yet to see a weather proof alternator. alternator.The generator on my Ford 640 has been running ok for 24 years now.A few drops of oil is all it needs.
 
I'm good with electronics.

Virtually nothing electronic hits the refuse pile at my house.

most stuf I can fix or at least salvage..

I've never had an oem alt make it 150K on anything I or my wife owned.. certaintly not on a piece of work equipment that has 365 different drivers per year.

I don't need to take a gen or vr to orielies to know if its bad or not. takes about 30 seconds to motor test or full field / jumper the cutout. :)

not to mention looking at where they are putting those suckerts these days. gone are the days you open the hood, remov ethe long hinge bolt and the bolt on the tension arm, push it dowm slip belt off, unplug the 2 wire clip, and unscrew the 10mm nut and take it off.

my wifes last car required taking the plasting intake plenum / shield off to get at the alternator :(

As for people in general not having the common sense to jump start.. well.. I'm not responsible for 'stupid'

I took the time to learn stuff... everyone else can CHOOSE to if they are above a certain IQ level.. those that aren't I give a pass to.

As for electronics being easy.. it wasn't school. I knew most of what Iknew about electronics before I ever hit college at 17.

Anyone can pick up a book and read and learn something.... library is free.. heck.. if it's ever been printed.. it's likely available on the internet.

anyone with enough smarts to use a modern computer or other tech equipment should be able to handle stuff made at the turn of LAST century...

being self suficient is just being smart these days.

I agree.. there shouldn't be a law saying you have to own a VOM.. however.. I think it's smart, and money saving to do so... same with a set of tools.

If I had to pay for every single thing I've ever taught myself to do.. i'd have to hit the lottery about a dozen times to break even ;)

I don't have anything against dumb people.. but I'll not make excuses for them either ;)

unless they have a medical pass.. it's their choice.. :)

soundguy
 

They are not dumb. They have different abilities. I'll bet you the last 10 presidents of the US could not do a motor test on a generator. Though Bill Clinton might.

I'm going to ask you to do me a favor.
Go read Tolstoy's 'War and Peace'. When you are finished reading it I would like you to report back and tell me what is the most fundamental theme in that novel.
Now I'm sure you are going to ask, Why in He77 would I want to waste all my time doing that?
To that I will answer that that is exactly the same thing you are asking people to do when you try to explain electrics to them. You are asking them to learn the basics of electrical theory so they can fix their tractor.
It is not any more worth it to them than War and Peace is to you.
But the presumption you make every day here is that they are willing to go read War and Peace. They're not. And if they read it from cover to cover they still might not be able to answer the question about what is the main theme in the novel. Just like you and othes here can explain a thing over and over to some and they still do not get it.
They are not stupid.They could probably look at the spur gear that drives the cam in an N and tell you what the addendum and dedendum is on it.
But they don't know electrics.
 
PS.. before the 'conceited, elitist snob' comments hit me..

I consider myself ballpark, run of the mill average intelegence and of run of the mill capability.

Plenty of stuff i don't know.

I'm not however, afraid to pick up a book and learn about it.

Or watch someone do it one, so I can get an idea of how to do it the next time.

As you point out with the electrical momment vs population... it still amazes me that a lamp circuit befuddles so many.,, and yet.. plumbing might be fine... considering yuo can describe electronics, in basic concept of current flow, as plumbing. That's where my 'doesn't try' comment comes in.

or if all else fails... do it via cookbook. Voodoo electronics. Manual in one hand, wire cutters in the other. :)

That's why there's so many greasy fingerprints on my repair manuals. I'm NO mechanic... I'm not afraif to wave a wrench over something though....

soundguy
 
(quoted from post at 18:44:14 09/17/11)

I'm an electronics guy.. and simply have never had an alternator in a piece of equipment or vehicle, new or not, ever last.. certaintly not into the 200K range. Hard to get them into the 100k range... Just what I've seen on my vehicles I have to maintain, plus our fleet of vehicles at work.

soundguy
Click to expand...

I have to go with Rick on this one - I have 4 vehicles sitting here right now - 110K, 2@135K, 165K - and all have the original alternators in them. The 110K one is domestic and the other three are German. I drive a lot of high mileage junk - err..... vintage vehicles and the last time I had to replace an alternator was ~15 years ago on a 91 Dakota with 200K+ on the clock at the time. I have no idea how long that NAPA rebuilt would have lasted - the truck died of other problems shortly afterwards.

TOH
 
Only one illegitimate child and that was Pierre Bezukhov (who was later legitimized wink)
But you kind of prove my point with the Ugh...
IE You really have to want it pretty bad to go through the effort of learning it.

As to intelligence vs electrical skills I think it's all about aptitude.
Some people have it for one thing, some have it for other things.
My pal Kenny is gifted when it comes to building/fabricating/welding things. He instinctively understands stresses and properties of different metals. he can look at a 10 page set of blueprints for a new 8 ton weldment for a 5" Navy gun mount and have the concept in his head in just a few minutes but he doesn't understand how the 3 branches of government works. And he couldn't read a map if his life depended on it.
To some that would make him dumb. But i don't think he is
As for the pariah from New England, Methinks I'm done responding to him. Like a puppy who chews for the sake of chewing, so he argues for the sake of argueing. I only hope that he doesn't wear out his teeth. He may need them for eating yet.
 
Show me a 6V system that will will run day in and day out with a 12V alt are EI ignition... I remember well my uncle converting every delivery truck around in the 60's with a GM alt... Every driver wanted to make their deliveries with out a dead battery 6 are 12V... Folks tend to forget a alt are a EI will do more than double the work and never break a sweet...
 
I could be wrong.. and it has been 22 or 25 ys since I read it.. but I took it that the count ,who was pierre's father, was known to have had many iligitimate kids.. but that pierre was his favored one.? Again.. it was a long 'books' :) i could be wrong.

I guess I'm just more comfortable with the 'jack of all trades' concept. seems to get more done that way.

if shipwrecked and stranded, I'd survive on a deserted island ( if it had a food and water supply ) I may not like it ( or maybee I would??? ).. but I'd be able to make shelter, weapons, hunt.. make ruidimentary plumbing. etc, etc. I know plenty of darn smart 'specialized' people that are top of their field.. that can't tie shoe laces and chew gum, that would die trying to swim ashore...

not sure what it is.. you mention aptitude? maybee... common sense? maybe.. I dunno...

soundguy
 
Sound I've got a good friend who is a good farmer who's making money at it and also a pretty good wrench turner.......who is afraid to touch anything electrical except to change out a starter, battery or alternator. Couldn't change a set of point if his life depended on it I don't think....well maybe. Any time he has a electrical issue on a vehicle he calls me. But he will split a 1586 IH in a heart beat. And from what I've seen he is the norm. Few years back when I was working in a shop we had a guy bring it a custom kit car he had built......to have us install a talor made wiring harness he had bought. He's a guy who can build an engine and tranny and build a kit who was convinced that he would mess up the wiring.

Come on we get guys in here like that fella from SD who gave up on that N who didn't know anything. He isn't the only one who has been on here who isn't a mechanic. I even know a fella who collects tractors. They all look and run great! And well they should considering the money he PAYS SOMEONE to restore them for him. I think if you gave him a hammer he'd have to ask what it's for.

AS far as the chargers, I only buy local, never shop online but may change that when I order the engine kit for my N. I try not to shop box stores too. But demand for 6 volt is going down. Lot of old stuff has gone to the crusher or been converted. The makers can produce the chargers a little cheaper by deleting the 6 volt circut and they are to keep the price down. Soon as I convert the N I'm replacing my dying charger for one with 6 volt becasue I will have no need for 6 volt. Except for the few tractor and car collector I know I don't know anyone still using 6 volt around here except me right now.

I wanna know what yer doing with yer alternators where they don't last 150k. I was thinking back and the last 7 or 8 cars and trucks I've owned have all gone 200K or more on the OEM alternator. Our Crown Vic had 235K with the oem and it was still on it when I traded it. The Town Car was about 210K when the alt went on it, my F250 was a 300k when I got rid of it, alt was changed at about 220k......ECT. But I bet you are not the only one who has had that happen.

Rick
 
I would like to see a 400a 6 volt booster.I built a 12v 50a supply years ago.It is heavy 2 transformers,giant tap switch, 100a diode bridge, steel chassis.My DC welding converter puts out 90 volts open circuit.It has a 10,000 mfd filter cap in it. I put a big wirewound resistor across the output to tame it.It has very easy starts, no pecking to start the arc.The fellow that wants a 400 amp 6 volt booster tends to be a windbag.His statements prove he isnt wrapped to tight.I was looking at a site on outboard motors and pertronix ,Saw much reference to the internally resisted coil.Read a pertronix ad.They claim hotter spark ,big increase in horsepower and gas milage plus increased spark plug life.One of the first things I noticed on GMs HEI ignition was the fact that it ate spark plugs.I have had a GM HEI module fail in the driveway.
 
(quoted from post at 04:20:04 09/18/11) The information is there.None of us could ever read it all.If I though my engine had 800 bucks worth of coil paks in stead of a 12 buck ignition I would be PO.I know people who have had to replace these paks.They aint happy.Never buy OEM parts from Ford.Lets go back to the days when you could buy a rebuilt distributor for a 40 Ford for 8 bucks.The crap that has been dumped on auto owners by learned engineers is awful.You have a Dufus image yourself.If you dont like what I post DONT READ OR REPLY.
Click to expand...

36, why the anger?

The math looks pretty simple to me. I just priced a set of points and condenser online for a 65 Ford Falcon, 21 dollars. OEM specks call for replacing them ever 12,000 miles. Now I drive my cars 200,000 plus miles, most of the time 240,000 or more so that would be 20 set of points and condenser and at that many miles you can count on at least 1 reamn dizzey at 50 or 60 dollars. so 20X21+50=470. Now ad in labor......my time is worth at least minumum wage so 20 hours at an hour each (that includes the time to get the points and put tools away) @ 7.25 an hour and we are up to 615 (and be happy that I know how to do a tune up cause if I didn't that labor would be more like 60 or 70 bucks an hour). I've driven our SUV (Chevy Suburban) 245,000 miles so far. I've replaced the plugs twice, plug wires once, 2 batteries and the alternator. So tell me again how great points are???????

I know I'm not going to convince you that I'm right and I know you are not going to convince me that you are right. I know a few old guys like you who just can't stand change. Thats ok too. Just let it go! I know another guy like you who can't stand EI in any form and the funny part is he can't even do a tune up. He's 60 this year and grew up between a farm in MN in the summer and AZ in the winters and can't do a tune up. He too was a cop, MP USMC (Nam Vet), farm hand, ruffneck, ranch hand and garbage man. He too has a CCW but I know he isn't you cause he's afraid of puters.

Oh and if it makes ya fell better go ahead and give all the electronic finges you want.

Rick
 
a 400a 6v charger.. I'm still wondering what a use for one could be... it's way more than is needed to jumpstart a 6v tractor with a dead battery, unless he's trying to jump start a couple of them at the same time with dead batteries.

heck.. harbor freight has a 2-10-55 12/6v starter / charger on sale for like 16$ right now.. that's as much as most old tractor owners need, right there..

I have an old 2-10-55 at home.. think its a sears.. probably 30ys old. works fine..


soundguy
 
(quoted from post at 07:56:07 09/20/11) a 400a 6v charger.. I'm still wondering what a use for one could be... it's way more than is needed to jumpstart a 6v tractor with a dead battery, unless he's trying to jump start a couple of them at the same time with dead batteries.

heck.. harbor freight has a 2-10-55 12/6v starter / charger on sale for like 16$ right now.. that's as much as most old tractor owners need, right there..

I have an old 2-10-55 at home.. think its a sears.. probably 30ys old. works fine..


soundguy
Click to expand...

Beware - that HF charger is junk. I bought one when I was looking for an inexpensive 6V charger and MTBF is about 15 minutes. I took 3 back for exchange before I gave up and bought a little Schumacher 6V/10A charger off eBay.

TOH
 

HF also sells a "float charger" they claim is good for all types of batteries, flooded, gel-cell, etc..

[size=18:f0b53ef57b]B. S. ![/size:f0b53ef57b]

The fine print says to NEVER use it on a recombinant (gel cell) battery.

What the box says...and what the instruction pamphlet says... two DIFFERENT THINGS!
 
(quoted from post at 04:56:07 09/20/11) a 400a 6v charger.. I'm still wondering what a use for one could be... it's way more than is needed to jumpstart a 6v tractor with a dead battery, unless he's trying to jump start a couple of them at the same time with dead batteries.

heck.. harbor freight has a 2-10-55 12/6v starter / charger on sale for like 16$ right now.. that's as much as most old tractor owners need, right there..

I have an old 2-10-55 at home.. think its a sears.. probably 30ys old. works fine..


soundguy
Click to expand...


LOL I don't need 400 amp for the 6 volt.....I want it for the diesels when I have snow up to my butt and forgot to plug in the blower/bale feeding tractor that's 12 volt! But the charger I ordered from NAPA yesterday has no settings for 6 volt! Don't wanna own 2 (2nd one is trickle for just my trolling motor batts) or 3 different chargers just so I can keep one tractor 6 volt.

And you and I have had this conversation before. You like the stuff u can get a HF, I consider em junk. No right or wrong there just preference.

Rick
 
since 6v (and 8v ) are oddballs.. you may just have to live with having 2 chargers.. it's not a big deal.

I don't own a HF charger.. mine is sears and old. i was just mentioning HF sells a 6v charger, as do every other place in town that even remotely looks like it might be auto or tool related. heck.. radi shack even sells a pre-manufactured 6v charger.

as for hf in general? yer craftsman wrench is made in china and has a liftime replacement warranty.. so does a hf wrench.. excpet you pay 4x more for the craftsman.

on simple things like a switch, metal box, cables and xformer and diode. not too much to screw up there. in any case.. don't matter brand much anymore.. go pick up a charger and look for COO tag.. most are some country that eats way more rice than we do... even if it's an american brand.

I currently' pun intended' know of only 1 battery charger that is actually made in the us.

soundguy
 


Nope, don't have to live with 2. Just going to convert the N to 12 volt and give the near new 6 Volt to my FIL for his Desota! Yea the NAPA place has some chargers with 6 volt but they are small chargers with no boost. Not what I'm looking for.

For what it's worth I don't buy Crapsman tools and haven't sense before 1990. Right now I'm buying the NAPA pro line. Kinda spendy but they are 8 miles. Crapsman are 25 miles if I have a problem and HF is 90 miles or a long wait with shipping stuff back and forth. When I need a tool I need it now, not next month.

And yea I know how much crap is made in China.....even some Snap On.

Rick
 
i'd wager just about all major brands are made in china now.

Not many places doig drop forgings here anymore.. foundries here are a thing of the past.

My point about 2 chargers was if you have needs for 6v.

I see you like to be obstinate and contort points I make. This hread has really opened my eyes abdout some of the members .. and the huge loss of credibility that accompanied the info in the postings..

end of discussion permanently.

soundguy
 
... ok... just took a half hour and read this whole thread.....

... I have had several alternators go... and even had generators go... My N's that I have had sometimes start easy when it's 0 out, then some days don't want to start when it is 20 out.... go figure....
I have had points go, I have had elecronic ignitions go.... guess it's just some strange thing that happens here in Columbia/Greene county NY...
... I have cell phones, computers, yet watch a tv from like 1978... I have a 2006 Ford F150, and a (woops) 1939 9N.... UH OH!!

My point is, go with "whatever" works for you.... people are just trying to help... everyone taking everything too personally.... I think everything mentioned on here is decent advice....
so as far as "points", or electronic ignition.... gens or alts... 12v or 6v.... it's like eating a bunch af raw clams.... sometimes you get a "bad one"...
 
(quoted from post at 22:25:35 09/21/11) ... ok... just took a half hour and read this whole thread.....

... I have had several alternators go... and even had generators go... My N's that I have had sometimes start easy when it's 0 out, then some days don't want to start when it is 20 out.... go figure....
I have had points go, I have had elecronic ignitions go.... guess it's just some strange thing that happens here in Columbia/Greene county NY...
... I have cell phones, computers, yet watch a tv from like 1978... I have a 2006 Ford F150, and a (woops) 1939 9N.... UH OH!!

My point is, go with "whatever" works for you.... people are just trying to help... everyone taking everything too personally.... I think everything mentioned on here is decent advice....
so as far as "points", or electronic ignition.... gens or alts... 12v or 6v.... it's like eating a bunch af raw clams.... sometimes you get a "bad one"...
Click to expand...
ame old story on any subject.....what I have/decided on is best for everyone. If a guy didn't take that position wouldn't he be admitting that he made a mistake? Such is life. :roll: :cry:
 
(quoted from post at 19:34:31 09/21/11)
(quoted from post at 22:25:35 09/21/11) ... ok... just took a half hour and read this whole thread.....


My point is, go with "whatever" works for you.... people are just trying to help... everyone taking everything too personally.... I think everything mentioned on here is decent advice....
so as far as "points", or electronic ignition.... gens or alts... 12v or 6v.... it's like eating a bunch af raw clams.... sometimes you get a "bad one"...
Click to expand...
ame old story on any subject.....what I have/decided on is best for everyone. If a guy didn't take that position wouldn't he be admitting that he made a mistake? Such is life. :roll: :cry:
Click to expand...


The thread that doesn't die...
I say the same thing. I don't care what you run for ignition, of if you prefer 6v or 12v or how you spend your money either.
Since i got started in this debate about 6 years ago i do think that this board is pretty intolerant of anything that is not original.
It is that intolerance that I despise. And it is that intolerance (which I think mostly comes from ignorance)that I will continue to fight against.
I do think that a big step forward has been taken with this thread if only because Jmor and No New Parts actually posted pictures of an EI instalation. Never has there been a pic here before - so far as I've seen. I think it shows that EI is not some mysterious thing that should automatically be despised - because the board says so.
The goal of course is to have it so a fellow can ask questions about 12v and or EI and have them answered - without all the second guessing and arguments.
 
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