Planter Help/Suggestions

[MaddrCow]

I'm starting to look for a planter for next year, or maybe later this year. I want a planter that can do multiple things, I want to experiment. It's more important to me to be able to do things differently, and to try all the old methods, than to do it the best/current/most efficient way. I'd like a planter that can do many different seeds easily. From cucumber/pumpkin, to beans, peas, and corn, maybe even wheat, radish, beats. I don't plan on doing rows much narrower than 36" - but I wouldn't mind the option to go as low as 30" in the future. I also want to do some inter-seeding, or co-seeding. So if there's a fertilizer box, or another box I can also have seed drop out of, that would be great.

I will be using a A-C D15 Series I, that's about 35 drawbar horsepower, 40 pto.

All of this has led me to believe I want a plate type planter. Probably a JD 494A, with fertilizer and chem boxes. However - I see 1250, 1240s, Cyclos.

What does it take to change seeds with a cyclo planter? How bad is maintenance? Will 40HP run the pump and leave me enough to pull it?

The 1240 is a finger type? Can you set it for different seeds, easily? Are they finicky?

I think the 1250 is a plate planter, does it use 494/694 plates? Can it only drill, or can it check corn?

Is there a planter that can do double duty, maybe help through winter wheat, beats, or tubers in the ground? Again, don't necessarily need maximum efficiency and I would accept 36" rows, as it's better than nothing, better than doing it by hand, and cheaper than buying a drill.

These JD planters tend to be the ones in my price range - readily available - and can do more than drill rows, albeit less well than modern planters. There doesn't seem to be one solid concise location for detailed information on these planters for me to peruse, and I'm getting a headache from trying to piece together info across the web. So I was hoping one person knew a bit about them all and could provide guidance, advice, and suggestions.

Again, I'm not really interested in the "right" way, or the "best" way, or the "current" way to do things. I want to experiment, learn the ways it was done in the past, and do them and learn for myself why the right, best, current, way is what it is. So a flexible, versatile, robust, planter is what I'm ultimately looking for.

 

[DeltaRed]

I have a 4 row JD #71 on three point hitch in western Colorado.Set on 30",but easily adjustable.Double diamond bars;gage wheels;markers;box of plates;'book;Gandy' boxes,liquid fertilizer attatchment.more. Like to get $1500.

 

[MaddrCow]

I have a 4 row JD #71 on three point hitch in western Colorado.Set on 30",but easily adjustable.Double diamond bars;gage wheels;markers;box of plates;'book;Gandy' boxes,liquid fertilizer attatchment.more. Like to get $1500.

I'm not really sure about what all that means, can you explain a bit to me? I have a vague understanding, but just not certain. Also, Western Colorado is a bit too far for me I think.

 

[Red 56 Binder]

I'm not really sure about what all that means, can you explain a bit to me? I have a vague understanding, but just not certain. Also, Western Colorado is a bit too far for me I think.

Where are you located ?

 

[MaddrCow]

Where are you located ?

Western South Dakota.

I'm really just looking for an education on all the planter options.

 

[Brendon-KS]

I'm starting to look for a planter for next year, or maybe later this year. I want a planter that can do multiple things, I want to experiment. It's more important to me to be able to do things differently, and to try all the old methods, than to do it the best/current/most efficient way. I'd like a planter that can do many different seeds easily. From cucumber/pumpkin, to beans, peas, and corn, maybe even wheat, radish, beats. I don't plan on doing rows much narrower than 36" - but I wouldn't mind the option to go as low as 30" in the future. I also want to do some inter-seeding, or co-seeding. So if there's a fertilizer box, or another box I can also have seed drop out of, that would be great.

I will be using a A-C D15 Series I, that's about 35 drawbar horsepower, 40 pto.

All of this has led me to believe I want a plate type planter. Probably a JD 494A, with fertilizer and chem boxes. However - I see 1250, 1240s, Cyclos.

What does it take to change seeds with a cyclo planter? How bad is maintenance? Will 40HP run the pump and leave me enough to pull it?

The 1240 is a finger type? Can you set it for different seeds, easily? Are they finicky?

I think the 1250 is a plate planter, does it use 494/694 plates? Can it only drill, or can it check corn?

Is there a planter that can do double duty, maybe help through winter wheat, beats, or tubers in the ground? Again, don't necessarily need maximum efficiency and I would accept 36" rows, as it's better than nothing, better than doing it by hand, and cheaper than buying a drill.

These JD planters tend to be the ones in my price range - readily available - and can do more than drill rows, albeit less well than modern planters. There doesn't seem to be one solid concise location for detailed information on these planters for me to peruse, and I'm getting a headache from trying to piece together info across the web. So I was hoping one person knew a bit about them all and could provide guidance, advice, and suggestions.

Again, I'm not really interested in the "right" way, or the "best" way, or the "current" way to do things. I want to experiment, learn the ways it was done in the past, and do them and learn for myself why the right, best, current, way is what it is. So a flexible, versatile, robust, planter is what I'm ultimately looking for.

When it comes to all-around versatility for seeding many different crops an old-fashioned plate planter would be hard to beat. A "unit planter" like the Deere #71 that DeltaRed mentioned is highly versatile since each row unit is an independent planter equipped with its own drive wheel. This allows you to gang as many of them together as you want on a toolbar in whatever row spacing you desire. Plates are available to plant just about anything - I've used mine for various types of corn, peas, green beans, soybeans, melons, pumpkins, milo, zinnia flowers, and onions (using the special vegetable hopper attachment).

A Cyclo planter is simple, functional, and very simple to change from crop to crop (speaking from experience as I have one) but finding the correct drums suitable for the various seeds you want to plant could prove difficult. And, I don't know how well they would work with thin, flat seeds like melons and cukes. The pump for the blower doesn't take much power so I would think that 40hp might work as long as the tractor was physically heavy enough to control the weight and you weren't in a hurry.

For what you are wanting to do I would avoid a finger pickup planter. These are nearly exclusively a corn and soybean planter with the finger pickup meter used for corn and a secondary feedcup meter for beans.

If looking at a vintage planter you would for sure want to go with something equipped with disk openers. The old-fashioned runner openers are from the days when every field was moldboard plowed and had little to no residue on the surface at planting time. Disk openers give you the ability to plant into at least some residue, even if the planter isn't a true "no till" model.

One thing to note: your early-series D15 tractor has a low volume/high pressure hydraulic system (assuming that it is original) that wouldn't be ideal for the cylinder sizes on a pull-type planter. Your tractor will put out about 1000 psi more pressure than what would be considered standard in the industry but at a much lower flow rate. This means that the cylinders on the implement need to be smaller diameter and higher pressure rated than what you'll find on any pull-type implement not specifically intended for that vintage of Allis-Chalmers tractor.

 

[crsutton81]

I'm starting to look for a planter for next year, or maybe later this year. I want a planter that can do multiple things, I want to experiment. It's more important to me to be able to do things differently, and to try all the old methods, than to do it the best/current/most efficient way. I'd like a planter that can do many different seeds easily. From cucumber/pumpkin, to beans, peas, and corn, maybe even wheat, radish, beats. I don't plan on doing rows much narrower than 36" - but I wouldn't mind the option to go as low as 30" in the future. I also want to do some inter-seeding, or co-seeding. So if there's a fertilizer box, or another box I can also have seed drop out of, that would be great.

I will be using a A-C D15 Series I, that's about 35 drawbar horsepower, 40 pto.

All of this has led me to believe I want a plate type planter. Probably a JD 494A, with fertilizer and chem boxes. However - I see 1250, 1240s, Cyclos.

What does it take to change seeds with a cyclo planter? How bad is maintenance? Will 40HP run the pump and leave me enough to pull it?

The 1240 is a finger type? Can you set it for different seeds, easily? Are they finicky?

I think the 1250 is a plate planter, does it use 494/694 plates? Can it only drill, or can it check corn?

Is there a planter that can do double duty, maybe help through winter wheat, beats, or tubers in the ground? Again, don't necessarily need maximum efficiency and I would accept 36" rows, as it's better than nothing, better than doing it by hand, and cheaper than buying a drill.

These JD planters tend to be the ones in my price range - readily available - and can do more than drill rows, albeit less well than modern planters. There doesn't seem to be one solid concise location for detailed information on these planters for me to peruse, and I'm getting a headache from trying to piece together info across the web. So I was hoping one person knew a bit about them all and could provide guidance, advice, and suggestions.

Again, I'm not really interested in the "right" way, or the "best" way, or the "current" way to do things. I want to experiment, learn the ways it was done in the past, and do them and learn for myself why the right, best, current, way is what it is. So a flexible, versatile, robust, planter is what I'm ultimately looking for.

On a IH Cyclo planter, there were different drums used that have different hole sizes, spacing, and hole counts to help match up to the seed size and population that is intended to be planted. Between the drum selection and the seed drive transmission, that is how the population is set. We have an 8 row model. Different drums are hard to find if they're not included with the planter purchase. I know it would plant everything you listed with, maybe the exception of cucumbers and pumpkins. From experience, my suggestion would be to look for a plate type planter which will be much more adaptable for the crops you want to plant. Appropriate seed plates can still be obtained for different crops and seed sizes. The best universal planter would be a JD 71 like Delta Red mentioned as each row unit is totally independent from each other. The press wheels on each of the units are what drives itself. It also does have double disk openers, which is waaay better than shoe / runner openers. These same JD 71 planters are now being made by the Yetter company new, albeit pricey. They also will adjust to any row width. I think you will be borderline on being able to handle a 3pt hitch 4 row with a lighter weight planter like this by the time there's 4 loaded hoppers, toolbars, and guage wheels to support the toolbar, with the size tractor you have. A 4 row trailer type will be even less than desirable if there are any hills or loose ground, as you will not have enough tractor weight to handle it. I do not have any experience with the other JD models mentioned, but IH did make a model 56 plate planter that was trailer type, had insecticide hoppers and dry fertlizer hoppers, with double disk openers. They were available from 2 row on up. There are some listed from time to time reasonable as they have aged out of their prime days of being the new thing. Hope this helps.

 

[MaddrCow]

When it comes to all-around versatility for seeding many different crops an old-fashioned plate planter would be hard to beat. A "unit planter" like the Deere #71 that DeltaRed mentioned is highly versatile since each row unit is an independent planter equipped with its own drive wheel. This allows you to gang as many of them together as you want on a toolbar in whatever row spacing you desire. Plates are available to plant just about anything - I've used mine for various types of corn, peas, green beans, soybeans, melons, pumpkins, milo, zinnia flowers, and onions (using the special vegetable hopper attachment).

A Cyclo planter is simple, functional, and very simple to change from crop to crop (speaking from experience as I have one) but finding the correct drums suitable for the various seeds you want to plant could prove difficult. And, I don't know how well they would work with thin, flat seeds like melons and cukes. The pump for the blower doesn't take much power so I would think that 40hp might work as long as the tractor was physically heavy enough to control the weight and you weren't in a hurry.

For what you are wanting to do I would avoid a finger pickup planter. These are nearly exclusively a corn and soybean planter with the finger pickup meter used for corn and a secondary feedcup meter for beans.

If looking at a vintage planter you would for sure want to go with something equipped with disk openers. The old-fashioned runner openers are from the days when every field was moldboard plowed and had little to no residue on the surface at planting time. Disk openers give you the ability to plant into at least some residue, even if the planter isn't a true "no till" model.

One thing to note: your early-series D15 tractor has a low volume/high pressure hydraulic system (assuming that it is original) that wouldn't be ideal for the cylinder sizes on a pull-type planter. Your tractor will put out about 1000 psi more pressure than what would be considered standard in the industry but at a much lower flow rate. This means that the cylinders on the implement need to be smaller diameter and higher pressure rated than what you'll find on any pull-type implement not specifically intended for that vintage of Allis-Chalmers tractor.

Thank you so much! Sort of confirms what I suspected.

Is it just one drum in the center units that need changed on the cyclo? (I think I've seen some 6 row with two and some with one center 'hub'?) I was warned parts would make them very expensive to own.

The plates look like the would be easy to 3d print and get something to work. And I think I've seen people mention doing so. Is there no such "aftermarket" options for the cyclo? How troublesome is maintaining the vacuum system?

Is the pump part of the unit, or will I have to source a PTO hydraulic pump if it doesn't come with?

There's a 400 near me they're practically giving away. Can the cyclo check/mound corn, or just do straight rows? Are there fertilizer and chem boxes for them?

I would prefer a mounted type planter, because they seem more compact/controllable. I have water in my tires. A wheel weight on each, and a loader up front I can throw rocks in if I need. But I would think I could pull more than I could lift. My ground is utterly flat. The mud can get truly nasty. But it's easy enough to avoid in planting season, usually it dries well enough between rainfalls. I pulled a seven tooth cultivator through at ~4" deep this spring without much trouble.

I'm already prepared to do something with the hydraulics. My pump is currently malfunctioning and only putting out 2,500psi anyway. But it's not double acting, yet, so I knew I'd have to do some figuring.

Do the 494 and 71s use the same plates?

 

[Brendon-KS]

Thank you so much! Sort of confirms what I suspected.

Is it just one drum in the center units that need changed on the cyclo? (I think I've seen some 6 row with two and some with one center 'hub'?) I was warned parts would make them very expensive to own.

The plates look like the would be easy to 3d print and get something to work. And I think I've seen people mention doing so. Is there no such "aftermarket" options for the cyclo? How troublesome is maintaining the vacuum system?

Is the pump part of the unit, or will I have to source a PTO hydraulic pump if it doesn't come with?

There's a 400 near me they're practically giving away. Can the cyclo check/mound corn, or just do straight rows? Are there fertilizer and chem boxes for them?

I would prefer a mounted type planter, because they seem more compact/controllable. I have water in my tires. A wheel weight on each, and a loader up front I can throw rocks in if I need. But I would think I could pull more than I could lift. My ground is utterly flat. The mud can get truly nasty. But it's easy enough to avoid in planting season, usually it dries well enough between rainfalls. I pulled a seven tooth cultivator through at ~4" deep this spring without much trouble.

I'm already prepared to do something with the hydraulics. My pump is currently malfunctioning and only putting out 2,500psi anyway. But it's not double acting, yet, so I knew I'd have to do some figuring.

Do the 494 and 71s use the same plates?

The Cyclo planters used one drum for 8 row and smaller models. The larger models were essentially two smaller units on a common frame with two seed hoppers and two metering drums. To change crops you just install the appropriate drum, set the transmission for spacing, set the row units for depth, maybe tweak the valve to adjust air pressure, and you're done. The pump was plumbed as part of the planter but I've seen old Cyclos for sale that no longer have it so make sure you check. Also note that the pumps came in 540 and 1000 rpm variants so that's another thing to watch for. The blower motor could be powered by any hydraulic pump with suitable capacity provided you have a flow control valve to adjust the air pressure.

The Cyclo actually works on air pressure, not vacuum - a blower pressurizes the seed hopper, conveys the seed to the drum, then blows the seed from the meter through tubes to each row unit. Key components that effect the performance of the system are the pump, motor, blower, and the seals on the hopper lid and drum. It's a simple system with relatively low maintenance.

The 400 was the first model of the Cyclo and has some major differences compared to the later 800, 900, and 950 models - most notably the drum is at the back of the seed hopper while on the later models it was in the front. All of these planters but especially the 400 are getting pretty old so make sure that it isn't completely worn out. Once you start replacing a bunch of worn-out components any free planter, regardless of make or model, can become expensive very quickly. They were available with the fertilizer (dry and liquid) and chemical boxes as options.

There are no aftermarket Cyclo drums available as far as I know. The drums were completely unique to only the Cyclo series of planters and they've been out of production for many years so the return-on-investment for an aftermarket company to reproduce them would be non-existent. As far as 3D printing that would be fine for regular planter plates that are the size of a dessert plate but the drums are large, about the size of a bushel basket, so they would be rather difficult to reproduce.

All Deere plate-type planters made since about 1950 use the same plates. This also includes the modern Yetter 71 clone of the Deere model.

No modern planter can check plant corn as this method has been obsolete since the WWII timeframe and requires special equipment, mainly a roll of check wire and the trip mechanism on the planter (not to mention the patience and skill to do it). "Hill dropping" is dropping multiple kernels in the same place but without the cross-checking and that lasted a little bit longer but again it is an outdated practice that has no advantage over single seed planting. Dropping more than one seed at a time would be considered a faux pas for any modern planter.

 

[caterpillar guy]

For tubers and such you will not be able to planter them through a conventional planter you will need a sort of transplanter or something with a hole big enough for them to fall down through. That will let out all regular planters of the disk opener typr planters and the seed flow controls for them. Like I say a transplanter type of planter would work well for that with a person to drop them in as you drive along slowly so the stand is even. I understand the nostalgia of old ways but they have been disused because as time has went by they have been proven to be less productive than the current methods. Not to say they can't be used but the cost per acre to produce a crop and make a profit has caused these changes as efficiency has improved. Sometimes not always for the betterment of things.

 

[MaddrCow]

For tubers and such you will not be able to planter them through a conventional planter you will need a sort of transplanter or something with a hole big enough for them to fall down through. That will let out all regular planters of the disk opener typr planters and the seed flow controls for them. Like I say a transplanter type of planter would work well for that with a person to drop them in as you drive along slowly so the stand is even. I understand the nostalgia of old ways but they have been disused because as time has went by they have been proven to be less productive than the current methods. Not to say they can't be used but the cost per acre to produce a crop and make a profit has caused these changes as efficiency has improved. Sometimes not always for the betterment of things.

Yeah, I'm not really looking to make a profit, yet, or even necessarily be efficient. I want to learn by doing all these old ways.

I have a couple distant goals, such as not using chemicals, in favor of green manure and mechanical weeding. And trying to find a way to make three sisters work mechanically, for me.