plug wires

[2cylinder]

I am running points and a regular coil, would it hurt putting radio suppression wires on the tractor, which is a 60, would it make it run any better, or worse? I think they are 8mm, but might be 7mm. thanks 2cylinder

 

[toot]

Just use solid core wires and and Autolite 3116 plugs and you will be happy.

 

[PBrowning]

In one word - NO! The arguement for solid wire type ignition wires is that with magneto ignition systems, there is an issue. If using non-wire type (RFI suppression) wires with a magneto, not all of the energy makes it to the sparkplug. Some is reflected back into the magneto and this reflected energy can, over time, hurt the magneto's coil - overheating being the force. (PatB)

 

[John T]

I seriously doubt you would notice any difference in performance in that battery powerd coil distributor ignition. Carbon core "suppressor" plug wires are more for the reduction of radio interference and not needed so much in our old farm tractors. Its true there may be some negligible waste of potential spark gap energy in the form of heat in the resistance of suppresor carbon core plug wires or resistor spark plugs, but that ignition has plenty energy to go around. NOTE I said you wont likely notice any difference, Im not denying that wire core can be more efficient, thats just simple physics which holds true, and I doooooooo still reccomend wire core ESPECIALLY in Mag ignitions.

The 7 or 8 mm I believe has more to do with the High Voltage wishstand capacity of the insulation I believe i.e. 8 mm can withstand higher voltages butttttttt in that stock ignition running stock plug gaps I dont see it as a problem regardless which you use.

HOWEVER if its a limited energy Magneto ignition, now THATS WHERE I REALLYYYYYYYYY RECOMMEND WIRE CORE WIRES

Its when you run an elec switch and a high energy high voltage coil and widen the plug gaps that the voltage withstand capacity of the plug wires comes more into play

On my own (especially if mag) I use wire core for what thats worth

John T

 

[John T]

Pat, lets discuss this some, you know I loveeeeeeeeeeee sparky chat with you n others lol

When the coil conducts current it stores X amount of energy, and when the points break open that x stored energy is lookin for a place to get discharged/expended in the form of inefficiency (heat losses) plus E x I x Time (arc duration) across the plugs gap. If theres resistance in the wires (carbon core) then someeeeeeee of what might otherwise get discharged across the plugs gap gets wasted in the form of I squared R heat loss in the wires (ITS smallllllll mind you).

Sooooooo I dont view it so much as "energy getting reflected back into the magneto" as you claim, when the points open the magnetic field collapses and the coils x available stored energy CANT BE INCREASED ONLY EXPENDED ELSEWHERE (I dont see it as any getting reflected back, the plugs and wires are over on the other HV Secondary side of the coil equation, although yes the secondary load affects the primary). I see it more as Id prefer alllllll the energy get dumped across the plugs gap then wasted as heat in resistive wires. Nowwwwwwww its indeed true since the condensor is in paralell with the points and in series with the coils low voltage primary winding, there is some energy exchange (ringing, maybe see it as reflecting???) going on between the condensor and coils primary, but I dont see that as any resistor versus wire core plug wire thing.

Your thoughts, or anyone elses?? Im here to learn same as others, this is where I reallyyyyyyyyyy miss Duane and his research physics background, Im sure he would have had good insight to this type of theoretical discussion.

Ol John T and all

 

[PBrowning]

Joh - You make my arguement! RFI Suppression (higher resistance) wires represent a higher load impediance than the magneto is designed for. Maximum energy transfer can occur only when the source impedance (magneto) and the load impedance (wire & plug) are a match. Magneto-based ignition systems are of low-impedance design. Now -- where there is a mis-match between source and load impedance values, a portion of the source energy is not transferred to the load -- instead it is reflected back to the source. This reflected energy will generate heat, and the direct target of energy reflected back to the magneto is the coil! The rest -- I said before. (PatB)

 

[John T]

Great Pat, fun discussion. I think we basically agree, just different terminology. We agree theres energy wasted in the form of heat VERSUS it all getting expended across the plug gap as preferred, its just that term "reflected back" that made me wiggle lol

The load impedance of an open circuit (the 0.030 plug gap) is infinitely greater then the relatively small resistance of wires regardless if copper or carbon core, the coils HV secondary voltage IS NOT INSTANTLY at 10,000 volts, it starts to ramp up and only reaches high enough for current to arc jump across the gap. Once current flow begins thats when the resisitve wires loose I squared R heat energy versus the energy loss of E x I x Time across the plug gap.

Oh well were prob boring the others but were sure havin fun, thanks.......

John T

 

[Hoss In ME]

Yea,,,,what toot said! Hoss

 

[buickanddeere]

What Hoss said.