Points next?

[lastcowboy32]

ballast resistor

if you trace your wiring... the coil DC + should go back to one terminal of that... the other side should connect to the key.

check out this old thread...

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?p=9702003&sid=84746d369241f38b9026e97843885408

if your points are stuck closed... hot ballast resistor
if you have a short circuit in the wire from the ballast resistor to the coil DC+... hot ballast resistor
if the ballast resistor itself has a short to chassis somehow... hot ballast resistor

That resistor should only be hot when the engine has been running for a little while.

 

[lastcowboy32]

and all of those situations would be bad for making sparky things go sparky spark

 

[Chris623]

The "grass" is starting to get too deep for my non-mechanic brain. May just take this danged thing to a mechanic and pay to get it running. Because at this point, all I am is frustrated and confused.

Where's my shovel????? Carl, where are you?

 

[lastcowboy32]

Here is where I step aside...because I know how ballast resistors work... and why they are there..

But there are people here that have "wisdom" that I don't with respect to the state of your tractor.

By that, I mean... you have an 8N? They were originally 6V.

Now you have a 12V conversion?

I can't remember if you keep the ballast, or don't... or put in a fixed resistor.

Myself, since I don't know... I would disconnect the wire from the key to the ballast resistor... and I would disconnect the coil DC+ from its wire to the ballast resistor...

Then... I would jumper the key straight to the coil DC+

Take the whole shebang out of the equation. You won't hurt your coil or distributor by starting the tractor without a ballast resistor. It only comes into play after the tractor starts running.

If the tractor starts like this... give yourself a pat on the back... then shut it off after 30 seconds or so...to preserve your coil and such.

THEN... figure out what coil you have, and what ballast resistor you would need... or not...

This is where the wisdom dudes come in and I exit.

Good luck, my friend.

 

[Chris623]

After reading back through this thread I've realized much of my confusion and frustration has to do with the fact this tractor isn't wired like most 12v conversions. I guess while Carl was capable of building these old tractors up and selling them he had his own "unique" way of wiring them when he converted them to 12V. A lot of what has been recommended just doesn't fit on my tractor. And since I'm such a neophyte about tractors it didn't hit me until just a while ago that's the big problem.

 

[lastcowboy32]

(quoted from post at 16:37:02 08/24/23) After reading back through this thread I've realized much of my confusion and frustration has to do with the fact this tractor isn't wired like most 12v conversions. I guess while Carl was capable of building these old tractors up and selling them he had his own "unique" way of wiring them when he converted them to 12V. A lot of what has been recommended just doesn't fit on my tractor. And since I'm such a neophyte about tractors it didn't hit me until just a while ago that's the big problem.

The engines ARE forgiving in that aspect. They will run with a range of modifications.

When it comes to the ballast resistor and all of that stuff. You can test for starting with it jumpered out. You can disconnect the whole shebang... Just wire the battery to the coil DC+ and press the start button.

If you get spark and it starts? The engine will be fine. Just shut if off and then figure out what you need for wiring and parts between the key / ballast resistor/ coil DC+

 

[Chris623]

Thanks lastcowboy32.

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 06:32:13 08/25/23)

(quoted from post at 16:37:02 08/24/23) After reading back through this thread I've realized much of my confusion and frustration has to do with the fact this tractor isn't wired like most 12v conversions. I guess while Carl was capable of building these old tractors up and selling them he had his own "unique" way of wiring them when he converted them to 12V. A lot of what has been recommended just doesn't fit on my tractor. And since I'm such a neophyte about tractors it didn't hit me until just a while ago that's the big problem.

The engines ARE forgiving in that aspect. They will run with a range of modifications.

When it comes to the ballast resistor and all of that stuff. You can test for starting with it jumpered out. You can disconnect the whole shebang... Just wire the battery to the coil DC+ and press the start button.

If you get spark and it starts? The engine will be fine. Just shut if off and then figure out what you need for wiring and parts between the key / ballast resistor/ coil DC+

I keep two jumpers w/Alligator clips in the tool box. One is heavy gauge to jump the cutout if it stops charging.

The other one is thinner and longer. With that one I can jumper around the ignition key, ballast resistor, or both getting battery voltage to the coil. It's also handy to use with the multimeter, and jumper to the lights.

 

[Eman85]

Did you do the test with the test light I suggested? If so what were the findings. Stop overcomplicating a 70 yo tractor that was designed so anyone could repair it with the simplest of tools.
Do the simple tests and report the exact results and you will possibly understand the system and you will get it running.

 

[Chris623]

(quoted from post at 10:58:59 08/25/23) Did you do the test with the test light I suggested? If so what were the findings. Stop overcomplicating a 70 yo tractor that was designed so anyone could repair it with the simplest of tools.
Do the simple tests and report the exact results and you will possibly understand the system and you will get it running.

Yes.............no "blinky".

 

[Eman85]

No blinky but is the light on steady?
Pop the cap and see if the distributor is turning when the engine turns. look to see if the points open and close as it spins. Check with the test light when the points are open if you have power at the points.

 

[Chris623]

I've gone back through this thread and tried every suggestion you guys made.............or at least I think I have. I did find some corroded wires and replaced them because the continuity would come and go while I wiggled the wires. I'm at my wits end. My buddy who came out the other day mentioned as he was leaving he thought the distributor cap and rotor looked as if they might need replacing. So I just now ordered a new cap and distributor kit. If this doesn't work I'll fill the tank with gas and "accidentally" let it overflow and light a match and have a bon-fire. :shock:

 

[Chris623]

I've gone back through this thread and tried every suggestion you guys made.............or at least I think I have. I did find some corroded wires and replaced them because the continuity would come and go while I wiggled the wires. I'm at my wits end. My buddy who came out the other day mentioned as he was leaving he thought the distributor cap and rotor looked as if they might need replacing. So I just now ordered a new cap and distributor kit. If this doesn't work I'll fill the tank with gas and "accidentally" let it overflow and light a match and have a bon-fire. :shock:

 

[Eman85]

Really can't make it much simpler to understand but try this. Take a piece of wire and connect it to the pos. side of the battery, if you have negative ground. And hook the other end of it to the side of the coil that comes from the ignition switch and see if you have spark or the tractor starts.

 

[Chris623]

Thanks. As I've said previously, I've got a line straight from the switch (which comes straight from the + side of the battery) to the + side of the coil. I have juice at that point. Nothing comes out the other side......PERIOD.

 

[Eman85]

When you say nothing comes out do you mean you are testing with the wire from the coil to the distributor connected? If the points are closed you won't get anything as the circuit is closed. Did you open the cap and see if the points are open? Did you spin the engine with the cap off to see if the distributor is turning?

 

[Chris623]

Does anyone have an idea where I might dump this tractor off a cliff somewhere nearby? I need nearby because I'll have to push or drag it..............sure can't drive it under it's own power.

I'm really at wits end. I've chased all the wiring.........even replaced some wiring that looked suspicious even though the OHM meter said it was good. Installed a brand new coil. Installed new points (set at .025) , condenser and Distributor cap. Still won't start and I've no earthly idea why. And before you ask, yes, the tank has plenty of good fuel and yes I turned on the ignition switch.

 

[Jim WI]

The worst part of remote troubleshooting is knowing that if the experts were on the scene they would figure it out quickly.

Reminds me of the time my company flew someone from the US to Australia to troubleshoot an AC drive. (Wasn't me because I didn't have a passport yet.) She walked up to the drive and within ten seconds said, "We need to replace this part."

 

[Chris623]

Yup...............only the frustrating part is I'd have to dig up my expert. He's up the street in the cemetery..........God Rest His Soul.

 

[Jim WI]

Let's try going back to the basics in the post quoted below:

(quoted from post at 11:32:14 08/24/23)

Your coil has three connections:

DC + (also called primary +, positive...)
DC - (also called primary -, ground...)
Secondary... (which is the booted cable to the top of the distributor)

I attached a diagram:
red is DC+
green is DC -
yellow is secondary.

You can have power at DC+ AND have a good coil AND have no spark.

How?

DC- isn't really "ground"... it goes to the points...the points are a switch that connect DC- to ground intermittently.

So, if your points never close... no spark
If your points do not have a good connection to chassis...no spark
If your points never open... no spark

Creating spark takes both the coil and the points working together.

The theory of how a coil's primary and secondary work to create the spark because of the switching the DC- to ground intermittenly by the points is something you can read on the internet. Your friend should understand that as well.

You have a wire from the battery + to the coil +, so you have power at the coil.

If I understand correctly, you're saying that there is no power at the coil -. This means that either the coil is open, the points in the distributor are stuck closed, or the wire from coil - is shorted to ground somewhere. Possibly where it connects to the distributor or the terminal that passes through the wall of the distributor.

This post was edited by Jim WI on 09/02/2023 at 01:29 pm.