Points vs EI

[James Lee]

I had posted earlier about my points loosing their gap in just a day or two. Ordered new stuff from YT. The stationary point plate had to have its holes reamed out and elongated before I could get my gap. Got my gap, tractor ran,but I forgot to put the pin in the movable points, did that, put back together, would not run, some how it destroyed the rotor button. Ordered the electronic ignition from this site, put it in, starts and runs better than it ever has, does not spit and fart like it used to. I don't know how those electronic thingies take the heat, but I hope my problem is solved, for a good while any way.

James Lee - TN

 

[Bruce(VA)]

" I hope my problem is solved, for a good while any way"

If your tractor is 12v, chances are very good you solved the "problem".

If it's 6v, we'll be hearing from you soon.
50 Tips

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 11:30:35 05/15/12) I had posted earlier about my points loosing their gap in just a day or two. Ordered new stuff from YT. The stationary point plate had to have its holes reamed out and elongated before I could get my gap. Got my gap, tractor ran,but I forgot to put the pin in the movable points, did that, put back together, would not run, some how it destroyed the rotor button. Ordered the electronic ignition from this site, put it in, starts and runs better than it ever has, does not spit and fart like it used to. I don't know how those electronic thingies take the heat, but I hope my problem is solved, for a good while any way.

James Lee - TN

I'm guessing that either you ordered the wrong points set, or you forgot to lube the distributor shaft where the rub block contacts it.

 

[Ultradog MN]

They hate EI on this board.
Bruce especially hates it.
I hope you get good and long service from it.
I did.

 

[NOXJohn]

If your tractor is 12 volts you will be very happy. A 6 volt E/I system often will not start when the battery voltage is even a little low. I have two 1949 8Ns front mounts. One is E/I and the other has points, both are 12 volts. Unless you buy Blue Streak front mount points, $25+ per set on this site, most likely you will get junk that will only last a few hours at best. Echlin sold by NAPA and nnalert are the one exception. They would be my second choice. I keep a spare set of Blue Streak points for when the time come that my E/I fails. You can not fix E/I it must be replaced. The E/I does make my tractor run smoother and without the previous occasional putt that I could never stop. Both tractors will do the same amount of work and there is no apparent difference in power. I hate to work on the front mount distributor. For some reason there are times that I have great difficulty getting those two small bolts back in and the distributor tang lined up correctly. The E/I tractor has been running strong for 3+ years and I have not needed to pull that *#@& distributor. That alone was worth the price of E/I for me. Conversion of the second tractor to E/I will be done as soon as it needs points.

 

[James Lee]

Tractor is 12 volts, got the right set of blue streak points from this site, I did lube the cam shaft. I think I am going to like the EI

James Lee - TN

 

[souNdguy]

if 12v.. probbaly ok.

did you get the coil conversion kit to use a round can coil vs the square? if not.. I'd reccomend it. in for a penny in for a pound. you've already paid the high price for the ei.. might as well milk it for all the benefits you can get out of it.. and a round can coil conversion is a SURE benefit on a front mount.. even if still using points.. just make sure the kit you have is compatible with the conversion kit. if so.. no resistors and junky square coil...

 

[MikeZ]

I don"t know how those electronic thingies take the heat, but I hope my problem is solved, for a good while any way.

James Lee - TN

I have a 48 N.
About 6 yrs ago I switched over to electronic ignition.Two years ago I removed the ballast resistor and installed a 2 0hm.I also installed a heat shield between the engine and the coil.The amp draw on the coil is about 1.5 amps.I bought a 5A dc amp meter on line for about $10.00. Instant starts hot or cold.I have owned this tractor for over 20 years.

Mike

 

[MikeZ]

I don"t know how those electronic thingies take the heat, but I hope my problem is solved, for a good while any way.

James Lee - TN

I have a 48 N.
About 6 yrs ago I switched over to electronic ignition.Two years ago I removed the ballast resistor and installed a 2 0hm.I also installed a heat shield between the engine and the coil.The amp draw on the coil is about 1.5 amps.I bought a 5A dc amp meter on line for about $10.00. Instant starts hot or cold.I have owned this tractor for over 20 years.

Mike

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 02:24:29 05/16/12) They hate EI on this board.
Bruce especially hates it.
I hope you get good and long service from it.
I did.

I DO NOT hate EI. I just simply feel that they are are extremely over-priced.

 

[Ultradog MN]

When you are old, on your knees and reaching through a loader to get at that front mount distributer so you can clean and reset your points you wont think that EI is so expensive.

 

[Deere63]

Hello,
Just wondering what you think of the EI kit from this site? Pertronix I believe. Is it a good brand and also how difficult was it to convert, how long did it take? Thanks for your response in advanced.

Rick

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 14:46:00 05/16/12) When you are old, on your knees and reaching through a loader to get at that front mount distributer so you can clean and reset your points you wont think that EI is so expensive.

But when the EI gives up the ghost at the most inconvenient time, and you have to walk back to the house, get in the truck, drive to town and buy another EI unit, you might have second thoughts. A standard ignition can usually be coaxed into working again. At least good enough to be able to DRIVE back to the house.

 

[Ken(Ark)]

But when the EI gives up the ghost at the most inconvenient time, and you have to walk back to the house, get in the truck, drive to town and buy another EI unit, you might have second thoughts.

I hear this excuse a lot about the EI system .

You do not have to wait for a new EI unit since you can reinstall a set of points if needed and be back at work in just a few extra minutes , 5 more for a total of 20 ? .

I keep an extra points dizzy as back up . It will work on any of my N's IF there is a failure .

So far I have had zero maintenance on the EI system but one of the N's with points are starting to close up after 100 or so hours . No big deal , I'll swap for the rebuilt dizzy and rework the old one when I have time .

Nothing wrong with either system . If a man knows how he wants to spend his time and money all I can say is enjoy it . The key is understanding both systems and making an educated choice . If you enjoy 6 volts and points that's great .

I learned a long time ago , the hard way , that downing the competition doesn't make my side look better .

 

[James Lee]

I got the complete kit from this site, every thing including coil comes with it except the rotor button, don't know why, but if you get the kit, make sure you order a new rotor button. Easy to install, some of it is all ready done.

James Lee = TN

 

[James Lee]

Rick, just make sure you put the red and black wires through the right hole on the top plate, and push it in a little through the grommit to put a little pressure on it so the wires lay up against the wall of the dist. like the drawing shows. If they are in there loose, it is possible the wires could get caught in the rotor button. I just have to bump my starter and she fires right up.

James Lee - TN

 

[souNdguy]

actually that didn't answer my question at all.

there are different kits.

kits that just get yuo ei, and you keep the square coil.. and kits that get you ei and you convert to a round coil with a blank off / relocating cap.

you did not specify which.

if you are unsure as to type.. post a pic of the distrib as it is now.

 

[souNdguy]

the 'fly' in that ointment is that most people install ei as a last ditch bandaid because their distribuitor is wore slap out, and due to the HE sensor.. it happens to still work on ei..

thus the 'extra 5m' of time to reinstall points and go.. may get them back on a system that was so wore out it wouldn't run in the first place.. and is now.. older..

IMHO.. have a good distrib.. or one 'good enough' would be the ideal starting point to use the points backup plan.

not downing the competition.. just pointing out that bandaids sometimes have holes in them...

 

[Ultradog MN]

(quoted from post at 07:15:31 05/17/12)

But when the EI gives up the ghost at the most inconvenient time, and you have to walk back to the house, get in the truck, drive to town and buy another EI unit, you might have second thoughts.

I hear this excuse a lot about the EI system .

You do not have to wait for a new EI unit since you can reinstall a set of points if needed and be back at work in just a few extra minutes , 5 more for a total of 20 ? .

I keep an extra points dizzy as back up . It will work on any of my N's IF there is a failure .

So far I have had zero maintenance on the EI system but one of the N's with points are starting to close up after 100 or so hours . No big deal , I'll swap for the rebuilt dizzy and rework the old one when I have time .

Nothing wrong with either system . If a man knows how he wants to spend his time and money all I can say is enjoy it . The key is understanding both systems and making an educated choice . If you enjoy 6 volts and points that's great .

I learned a long time ago , the hard way , that downing the competition doesn't make my side look better .

Well said Ken.
The prevailing mindset on this board is that electronic ignition WILL fail at some point. But there is no evidence to support that. Look how many years EI has been running in automotive and industrial applications with minimal failure rates.
Now of course some smart fellow is going to say: "But look at all the problems people have with them here on this board."
To that I say if people used that logic when it came to points they would probably conclude that points are the worst thing that ever were designed
as points and ignition problems are probably the most often asked question on this board.

 

[Ken(Ark)]

(quoted from post at 12:54:49 05/17/12) the 'fly' in that ointment is that most people install ei as a last ditch bandaid because their distribuitor is wore slap out, and due to the HE sensor.. it happens to still work on ei..

thus the 'extra 5m' of time to reinstall points and go.. may get them back on a system that was so wore out it wouldn't run in the first place.. and is now.. older..

IMHO.. have a good distrib.. or one 'good enough' would be the ideal starting point to use the points backup plan.

not downing the competition.. just pointing out that bandaids sometimes have holes in them...

This is true , I installed the EI unit because a lobe was flat . The basic EI unit was about ten bucks more than a new shaft .

This is why I believe every man should have two tractors and lots of spare parts , or atleast that what I told my wife :wink:

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" The prevailing mindset on this board is that electronic ignition WILL fail at some point. But there is no evidence to support that. "

You've got to be kidding me. Just because your one EI unit has not failed, none will fail? How many links do I need to post on this board w/ failed EI's as the topic?


" Look how many years EI has been running in automotive and industrial applications with minimal failure rates."

That is totally correct.......and totally unrelated to installing EI on a 60+ year old tractor.

" as points and ignition problems are probably the most often asked question on this board. "

And that proves exactly what as compared to EI?


What I find simply hilarious is that the most ardent EI supporters on this board are rarely if ever around to troubleshoot EI problems. Which is probably understandable if those supporters believe the units never fail.

 

[Royse]

I drug home a 9N parts tractor that has a 12 volt conversion, EI and a spin on oil filter.
I was thinking of putting the EI and 12V conversion kit in my tool box in case my points failed, but they won't fit. LOL
One of my N's is 12 volt (not EI), it was already converted when I bought it. It works fine, and I won't spend the money to convert it back unless I restore it.
The rest are still 6V. I have good luck with them even in Michigan winters plowing snow, and I won't spend the money to convert them to 12V unless I need to.
To be fair, I don't make a living with them. If my income depended on them maybe I would have a different opinion.
Either way, the different options and opinions of those options is further proof of the versatility of these machines!

 

[Ultradog MN]

[i:654c4848f0]" The prevailing mindset on this board is that electronic ignition WILL fail at some point. But there is no evidence to support that. "

You've got to be kidding me. Just because your one EI unit has not failed, none will fail? How many links do I need to post on this board w/ failed EI's as the topic?
[/i:654c4848f0]

[b:654c4848f0]I should learn to write more clearly.
How bout if I write it this way.
The prevailing mindset on this board is that ALL electronic ignition kits installed on N tractors will fail at some point. But there is no evidence to support that. Some will fail but not all of them. In fact most EI kits will not fail. It is just the ones that do that you hear about. You also know as well as I do that all too often EI is thrown in to a tractor as a last resort by someone who knows nothing about ignition systems and they can't get their spark to work. So the incidence of failure that you see here is very high but not because of an inherent defect with the ei itself. I frequently suggest to those who wish to 'set it and forget it' to have someone install it for them.[/b:654c4848f0]

[i:654c4848f0]" Look how many years EI has been running in automotive and industrial applications with minimal failure rates."

That is totally correct.......and totally unrelated to installing EI on a 60+ year old tractor.[/i:654c4848f0]

[b:654c4848f0] Unrelated?? Really? This comment surprises me coming from you. A distributer type ignition system is pretty much like any other distributer type ignition system is it not? Some have mechanical advance, some have vacuum advance but they all pretty much work the same way don't they? Packard, Ford, Buda, Hercules, Chevy, Continental, JD, Ferguson, Harley, IH, VW, Toyota?
What is it that makes your 60 YO front mount dist special or different?
In these ongoing discussions about EI you frequently dismiss the fact that ALL manufacturers of gas engines today have gone to ei.
Why?
What makes you think that the reliability, lack of dwell change and simplicity of maintenance in those machines is not related, suitable or desirable in a 60 YO tractor?[/b:654c4848f0]

[i:654c4848f0]" as points and ignition problems are probably the most often asked question on this board. "

And that proves exactly what as compared to EI?[/i:654c4848f0]

[b:654c4848f0] If you are going to quote me please do it in context. What I said is that points are also prone to failure. So much so that it is one of the most frequently asked questions on this board. I offer EI as an alternative but continually get flack from you for even suggesting it. All too often the merits of ei are lost in quibbling over their cost or some nostalgic comment about Ns being 60 years old.[/b:654c4848f0]

[i:654c4848f0]"What I find simply hilarious is that the most ardent EI supporters on this board are rarely if ever around to troubleshoot EI problems. Which is probably understandable if those supporters believe the units never fail."[/i:654c4848f0]

[b:654c4848f0]Nice jab. I've never said EI doesn't fail. What I have said many times is that EI does have some advantages. But those advantages seem to be lost on you. I have also said many times before that electrical questions are not my forte. That's why you rarely see me field questions on electrics - especially on Ns. You got any problems with the mechanicals on your Ford tractor - especially your 3 cylinder tractor - look for me here or on the Ford board and I can probably help you.
[/b:654c4848f0]

 

[NoNewParts]

Been a fan of EI since I put my first MSD box in a drag car long ago.
Tractor EI's are a little pricey, so I only have a couple. rest are points.
no problems with either, can't really tell the difference in running.
maybe a little smoother idle with EI.
The EI's stay with me when I trade, points go back in.
Glad they give you long wires, one EI has has the terminals cut off so
many times for another tractor, they are getting short.
Points or EI, I don't worry about failure.
If it's a mechanical and/or electrical device, it will fail eventually, no exceptions.
(otherwise we'd all be out of work)
It really boils down just to the owner,
points-EI, alts-gennys, gray-red, parts is parts, they all work.
ie., my 68 Mustang doesn't care a bit that it has a Chevy SB radiator in it.
a little fab work and it went in and was half the price.

Let's see......if I wire in a MSD 6AL box in one of my tractors and
use the stock points as the trigger...Points AND EI

 

[oldtanker]

This is always amazing to me. It's almost as funny s the 6-12 volt arguments.

On the front mount engines I can see the conversion for anyone who uses their tractor a lot. For the guy who runs his a hour or so a week I would consider it a waste of money but it's their money. I've found that I'm pulling my dizzy about once every 3 months. With field work and other things going on, plus bad knees IE is looking real attractive.

Can they fail? Of course! But so can points. In fact I'd bet that points fail a great deal more often than IE simply because they wear out! My N goes through a set of points about once a year but because of wear I have to pull the dizzy about every 3 months and regap em. My Farmall M gets run maybe 25 hours a years. I haven't touched the points in 2 years. Heck I just finished rebuilding the engine on my N 3 weeks ago and I bet I've got 20 hours on it already and over the next several days will more than likely put another 10 on it.

I think most of the IE problems that that I've read on these pages are not successful installation it's the guys with problems installing them. Now I know that the companies making IE for these tractors are not going to stay in business if no one is making the conversion so people are doing it. And it has to be more than just a few sold to justify continued production.

What really gets me is the advice both for the guys converting to 12 volt or IE "fix the problem first, don't use it as a bandaid". Well if my 6 volt charging system isn't working and I'm converting rather than repairing old system why in the heck would I want to repair the genny or replace the VR then convert to 12? Or the lobes are worn off the dizzy shaft and I can convert to IE and fix the problem but I'm going to replace the shaft then convert? What kind of advice is that? We all know that 12 volt isn't going to fix a bad starter or ring gear and IE isn't going to fix low compression. But both conversions can make a tractor more reliable. I know for me reliability is an important factor.

Rick

 

[Bruce (VA)]

(quoted from post at 02:23:51 05/18/12) [i:6bca3398c9]" The prevailing mindset on this board is that electronic ignition WILL fail at some point. But there is no evidence to support that. "

You've got to be kidding me. Just because your one EI unit has not failed, none will fail? How many links do I need to post on this board w/ failed EI's as the topic?
[/i:6bca3398c9]

[b:6bca3398c9]I should learn to write more clearly.
How bout if I write it this way.
The prevailing mindset on this board is that ALL electronic ignition kits installed on N tractors will fail at some point. But there is no evidence to support that. Some will fail but not all of them. In fact most EI kits will not fail. It is just the ones that do that you hear about. You also know as well as I do that all too often EI is thrown in to a tractor as a last resort by someone who knows nothing about ignition systems and they can't get their spark to work. So the incidence of failure that you see here is very high but not because of an inherent defect with the ei itself. I frequently suggest to those who wish to 'set it and forget it' to have someone install it for them.[/b:6bca3398c9]

[i:6bca3398c9]" Look how many years EI has been running in automotive and industrial applications with minimal failure rates."

That is totally correct.......and totally unrelated to installing EI on a 60+ year old tractor.[/i:6bca3398c9]

[b:6bca3398c9] Unrelated?? Really? This comment surprises me coming from you. A distributer type ignition system is pretty much like any other distributer type ignition system is it not? Some have mechanical advance, some have vacuum advance but they all pretty much work the same way don't they? Packard, Ford, Buda, Hercules, Chevy, Continental, JD, Ferguson, Harley, IH, VW, Toyota?
What is it that makes your 60 YO front mount dist special or different?
In these ongoing discussions about EI you frequently dismiss the fact that ALL manufacturers of gas engines today have gone to ei.
Why?
What makes you think that the reliability, lack of dwell change and simplicity of maintenance in those machines is not related, suitable or desirable in a 60 YO tractor?[/b:6bca3398c9]

[i:6bca3398c9]" as points and ignition problems are probably the most often asked question on this board. "

And that proves exactly what as compared to EI?[/i:6bca3398c9]

[b:6bca3398c9] If you are going to quote me please do it in context. What I said is that points are also prone to failure. So much so that it is one of the most frequently asked questions on this board. I offer EI as an alternative but continually get flack from you for even suggesting it. All too often the merits of ei are lost in quibbling over their cost or some nostalgic comment about Ns being 60 years old.[/b:6bca3398c9]

[i:6bca3398c9]"What I find simply hilarious is that the most ardent EI supporters on this board are rarely if ever around to troubleshoot EI problems. Which is probably understandable if those supporters believe the units never fail."[/i:6bca3398c9]

[b:6bca3398c9]Nice jab. I've never said EI doesn't fail. What I have said many times is that EI does have some advantages. But those advantages seem to be lost on you. I have also said many times before that electrical questions are not my forte. That's why you rarely see me field questions on electrics - especially on Ns. You got any problems with the mechanicals on your Ford tractor - especially your 3 cylinder tractor - look for me here or on the Ford board and I can probably help you.
[/b:6bca3398c9]

UD, in what might be the understatement of the month.........we disagree on the value of installing EI on an N tractor.

And we are both capable of turning the weaker points of our respective arguments into cudgels.

I'm sure some folks find these exchanges humorous, some may find them informative but more likely than not, given our oft stated viewpoints, I think most readers find the exchanges repetitious.

Want to think outside of the debate box & see if we can actually agree on something?

" A good quality EI kit correctly installed on a 12 volt N series tractor w/ a good working distributor will rarely malfunction. Good quality points correctly installed on a N series tractor (regardless of voltage) w/ a good working distributor will ALWAYS need adjusting & replacement, at least annually & more often depending on the use of the tractor. If adjusting/replacing points is not an issue, then little value will be realized by EI installation. "

 

[Ultradog MN]

[i:654c4848f0]" A good quality EI kit correctly installed on a 12 volt N series tractor w/ a good working distributor will rarely malfunction. Good quality points correctly installed on a N series tractor (regardless of voltage) w/ a good working distributor will ALWAYS need adjusting & replacement, at least annually & more often depending on the use of the tractor. If adjusting/replacing points is not an issue, then little value will be realized by EI installation. "
[/i:654c4848f0]

No Bruce, I can't quite go there with you. Read No New Parts post above and read some of Hobo and other's posts in the archives about other benefits to EI. Though I can not give you empirical proof I am convinced that my own tractor started better and ran smoother after I installed EI. It also fixed a nagging low idle miss that I could not find with points in it.
If I thought that points were just as good as EI I would not have championed EI for so long and waded through all the squabbles we've had over it.
And I am not the guy to tell other people how to spend their money. When I see the gobs of dough folks spend restoring their tractors I am not in the least concerned with suggesting they buy an add-on that I think actually improves the functionality of their tractor.
I'm in this for the long haul Bruce.
For 11 years I've seen folks pooh pooh the very mention of EI. Folks who never tried it, never even heard of it badmouth it because it was new or different. Or because points worked for dad or grandpa so they're good enough for them.
It's only been in the last couple of years that the discussions become somewhat based upon fact and experience and not just emotions, nostalgia and heresay.
Despite all the BS (and I admit my fair share of that) the whole notion of EI is finally, slowly and begrudgingly being treated as legitimate here.
When the topic can come up and be treated as legitimate, just like a question about tie rods or lift cylinders, when a guy can actually get help with the wires and connections, voltages and pictures without all the naysaying and condecension, without the emotional posts like yours below, only then will I lay off my keyboard and figure the topic has been discussed to everyone's satisfaction.
EI

 

[36 Coupe]

My 640 has been running for 24 years on the same points.I check the gap when the spring work starts.Ive had the engine shut down twice.Clean the points with a pocket knife, running again.When you are trying to get your hay in theres no money left to buy a rip off solid state ignition.

 

[36 Coupe]

Ive owned 8 flathead Ford cars with front mount distributors and never had point troubles with 7 of them.I had a 48 that broke a point spring.I had the distributor out in a few minutes.I could have taken the left side points out and drove home.My uncle stopped and went to the Ford garage for new points.Cost 4 bucks for the dual point set.Put the new points in and went home.I worked for a farmer afternoons fixing equipment after I put in 6 hours at the hatchery mornings.He had an 8n he bought new.The tractor was about 10 years old.It was used to plow a long driveway every winter.In summer it was used for raking hay.I kept it greased and changed the oil.It never had any starting problems.It had a v plow with cable lift and the driveway had to be open for the milk truck.I think most of the starting problems are self inflicted by wanna be mechanics.Those tractors are much older but will run fine with decent care.The rip off price of the so called ignition bothers me.Most problems with the front mount distributors come from running with out gaskets and junk points with plastic rubbing blocks.

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 03:43:02 05/21/12) My 640 has been running for 24 years on the same points.I check the gap when the spring work starts.Ive had the engine shut down twice.Clean the points with a pocket knife, running again.When you are trying to get your hay in theres no money left to buy a rip off solid state ignition.

24 years? I have to question that. Point life is not measured in years......nothing mechanical really is. It's hours.......and by nature points are going to go bad. No exceptions. Don't believe it......pop the cap off and with the ignition switch on, points closed manually open the points. Sparks fly. That alone is going to wear the contact surface. Plus you have a poorly lubbed system with the rub block on the lobes.

If the lobe wears to the point that the tractor dies and you have rain coming and your hay needs baled........I only use my gas tractor to rake and move hay. But if the pump goes on my diesel when that hay is on the ground I'm in trouble.......my gas tractors ain't going to help......my round baler require 70HP.

Just seems my BS dector is about pegged.

Changing points on a flat head car or truck is a lot easier than on an N tractor.

Mechanical skill? Where did that come from??????? First mechanics task I learned was cleaning parts........2nd was changing points and doing tune ups. So back in the day the skills needed to work on points was right above cleaning points and about changing oil. Correctly setting points is more of an attention to detail thing than a skill.

Now I figure that time is worth money and that everyone's time is worth at least minumum wage. So between pulling and setting the points, plus new points one a years on my N, between cash outlay and time it's costing me 50 bucks or so a year to keep points in it (that's at minumum wage not the 22.50 an hour I made as a mechanic). So if IE last 3 years it's paid for itself, 5 and I'm money ahead and have more time to go fishing or something.

Rick

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 10:08:44 05/21/12)

(quoted from post at 03:43:02 05/21/12) My 640 has been running for 24 years on the same points.I check the gap when the spring work starts.Ive had the engine shut down twice.Clean the points with a pocket knife, running again.When you are trying to get your hay in theres no money left to buy a rip off solid state ignition.

24 years? I have to question that. Point life is not measured in years......nothing mechanical really is. It's hours.......and by nature points are going to go bad. No exceptions. Don't believe it......pop the cap off and with the ignition switch on, points closed manually open the points. Sparks fly. That alone is going to wear the contact surface. Plus you have a poorly lubbed system with the rub block on the lobes.

If the lobe wears to the point that the tractor dies and you have rain coming and your hay needs baled........I only use my gas tractor to rake and move hay. But if the pump goes on my diesel when that hay is on the ground I'm in trouble.......my gas tractors ain't going to help......my round baler require 70HP.

Just seems my BS dector is about pegged.

Changing points on a flat head car or truck is a lot easier than on an N tractor.

Mechanical skill? Where did that come from??????? First mechanics task I learned was cleaning parts........2nd was changing points and doing tune ups. So back in the day the skills needed to work on points was right above cleaning points and about changing oil. Correctly setting points is more of an attention to detail thing than a skill.

Now I figure that time is worth money and that everyone's time is worth at least minumum wage. So between pulling and setting the points, plus new points one a years on my N, between cash outlay and time it's costing me 50 bucks or so a year to keep points in it (that's at minumum wage not the 22.50 an hour I made as a mechanic). So if IE last 3 years it's paid for itself, 5 and I'm money ahead and have more time to go fishing or something.

Rick

nce a year, minimum wage, $50........you are really slowing down Rick! :wink:

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 07:18:04 05/21/12)

(quoted from post at 10:08:44 05/21/12)

(quoted from post at 03:43:02 05/21/12) My 640 has been running for 24 years on the same points.I check the gap when the spring work starts.Ive had the engine shut down twice.Clean the points with a pocket knife, running again.When you are trying to get your hay in theres no money left to buy a rip off solid state ignition.

24 years? I have to question that. Point life is not measured in years......nothing mechanical really is. It's hours.......and by nature points are going to go bad. No exceptions. Don't believe it......pop the cap off and with the ignition switch on, points closed manually open the points. Sparks fly. That alone is going to wear the contact surface. Plus you have a poorly lubbed system with the rub block on the lobes.


LOL I wish it were only once a year. 1 set of points a year but to keep it running at it's best I'm pulling the dizzy and cleaning and gapping the points 2-3 time a year besides the change over to new points once a year. Course I could figure the labor at a higher rate and pay for IE in one year....LOL

Rick

If the lobe wears to the point that the tractor dies and you have rain coming and your hay needs baled........I only use my gas tractor to rake and move hay. But if the pump goes on my diesel when that hay is on the ground I'm in trouble.......my gas tractors ain't going to help......my round baler require 70HP.

Just seems my BS dector is about pegged.

Changing points on a flat head car or truck is a lot easier than on an N tractor.

Mechanical skill? Where did that come from??????? First mechanics task I learned was cleaning parts........2nd was changing points and doing tune ups. So back in the day the skills needed to work on points was right above cleaning points and about changing oil. Correctly setting points is more of an attention to detail thing than a skill.

Now I figure that time is worth money and that everyone's time is worth at least minumum wage. So between pulling and setting the points, plus new points one a years on my N, between cash outlay and time it's costing me 50 bucks or so a year to keep points in it (that's at minumum wage not the 22.50 an hour I made as a mechanic). So if IE last 3 years it's paid for itself, 5 and I'm money ahead and have more time to go fishing or something.

Rick

nce a year, minimum wage, $50........you are really slowing down Rick! :wink:

LOL I was going to ad that I cleaning and gapping em 2-3 times a year cause of the hours I put on it. Over 40 hours s of today in 3 weeks.

Rick

 

[36 Coupe]

I was working in a Ford garage when the 57 Ford was new.Friends and I had a cut down Model A Ford when I was 14 years old.The 42 to 48 Ford car and truck has a distributor that looks just like the 9n 2n 8n.In fact it uses the same points as the 6 and V8 Ford car.Your BS detector is clogged with BS.In short you are full of BS.We worked in the day when a 1.50 an hour was an average wage.Auto repair is infested with crooks now.When I work on my truck Im earning 80 bucks an hour.A new Ford car cost 2200 bucks then and a Caddy was 3 Grand.

 

[Ken(Ark)]

We worked in the day when a 1.50 an hour was an average wage...........A new Ford car cost 2200 bucks then and a Caddy was 3 Grand.

And this is relevant ???? I can save money and give myself a haircut too !

An EI unit is a luxury item just like live hydraulics or a trailer queen restored N . If that's what a man chooses to do with his money that's fine with me .

I don't see cost as a factor .

 

[Royse]

Move the decimal points one spot to the right and for a lot of folks in my neck of the woods, things haven't changed much.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I don't know were to start so will start here,,, I don't feel its worth loosing a friend over like somethings I believe in I would fight them to the end over...
Either suffer from the same issues... Its not about points are EI its the issues that affect both that's the real issue... Points are EI do the same thing but in a different way... Personalty If I never seen a points distributor are a carb again for the rest of my life I would be as happy as a pig in poo-poo.. All problems are simple once you find them....

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 16:11:58 05/21/12) I was working in a Ford garage when the 57 Ford was new.Friends and I had a cut down Model A Ford when I was 14 years old.The 42 to 48 Ford car and truck has a distributor that looks just like the 9n 2n 8n.In fact it uses the same points as the 6 and V8 Ford car.Your BS detector is clogged with BS.In short you are full of BS.We worked in the day when a 1.50 an hour was an average wage.Auto repair is infested with crooks now.When I work on my truck Im earning 80 bucks an hour.A new Ford car cost 2200 bucks then and a Caddy was 3 Grand.

BS detector is clogged cause of folks like you....I still want to know how many hours are on those very long lasting points of yours......what is the lobes and rub block made out of titanium????? I've done points on the old flat head cars and trucks and the N series with front mount give a lot less room to work in. 36, don't get me wrong, I don't think you are a bad guy....I just think you are set in your ways and don't like the newer systems because you don't fully understand em. I've seen you give good solid advice on some things. But here you are past your prime I think. And don't take this as that I think the new systems are all good. I really hate the puter controlled diesels.....sure there are improvements but not enough to justify the cost. It's kinda like the arguement of converting to 12 volt. If the engine is running low compression it isn't a fix....may start better but it's still going to have low compression. Don't make this into a "you dared to think I was wrong thing".......it's my right to think you are wrong just as it's your right to think I'm wrong.......

Rick

 

[36 Coupe]

I had a solid state ignition on a 38 Dodge in the 50s.The electronics magazines were full of solid state ignition articles.I found that the points were hard to keep clean because of the low current they handled.The points switched a power transistor.The 57 Ford radios used a transistor audio output.They were a common failure item.I am no stranger to solid state devises.I was there when they came in to use and spent many hours repairing solid state devises.I dont do TV repair these days.I do repair electric fence chargers.Guess what fails most often,solid state parts.I buy silicon diodes by the hundred.Solid state ignition failures are common.My truck lost one in my driveway.My friend had one fail on the rosd.It cost him 300 bucks.I was at a gun show,a fellow asked me if there was an auto parts store close by.His Ford truck had lost 3 ignition modules and needed a 4th one.When Ford moved the module to the distributor body the failures started.My friend has a 9N and Ive watched him take the distributor off the tractor in 5 minutes.I still do my own mechanic work.I replaced the spring hangers and gas tanks on my Ford truck.I had to weld up a new cross member and repair another.Ford wont supply a new crossmember.Made up 2 new crossmember for the box.Ford will sell the entire floor with crossmembers for 800 bucks.I cut logs for my sawmill so am far from being a helpless old man.Old age is nasty, just slows you down.

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 04:44:11 05/22/12) I had a solid state ignition on a 38 Dodge in the 50s.The electronics magazines were full of solid state ignition articles.I found that the points were hard to keep clean because of the low current they handled.The points switched a power transistor.The 57 Ford radios used a transistor audio output.They were a common failure item.I am no stranger to solid state devises.I was there when they came in to use and spent many hours repairing solid state devises.I dont do TV repair these days.I do repair electric fence chargers.Guess what fails most often,solid state parts.I buy silicon diodes by the hundred.Solid state ignition failures are common.My truck lost one in my driveway.My friend had one fail on the rosd.It cost him 300 bucks.I was at a gun show,a fellow asked me if there was an auto parts store close by.His Ford truck had lost 3 ignition modules and needed a 4th one.When Ford moved the module to the distributor body the failures started.My friend has a 9N and Ive watched him take the distributor off the tractor in 5 minutes.I still do my own mechanic work.I replaced the spring hangers and gas tanks on my Ford truck.I had to weld up a new cross member and repair another.Ford wont supply a new crossmember.Made up 2 new crossmember for the box.Ford will sell the entire floor with crossmembers for 800 bucks.I cut logs for my sawmill so am far from being a helpless old man.Old age is nasty, just slows you down.

I don't think that they fail all that often. I base that on miles driven. I ran 3 different fords, all 302 V8's with the dizzy mounted moduals. 2 of the 3 had ignition failures. One was the modual and the other the pickup........both over 200,000 miles. That to me don't seem too unreliable.

I do agree that it's not a long job pulling the dizzy, but when wearing a knee brace (metal one with hinges) it becomes a pain job. It would help if I didn't have big hands too.....LOL....

Rick

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 09:58:55 05/22/12)

(quoted from post at 04:44:11 05/22/12) I had a solid state ignition on a 38 Dodge in the 50s.The electronics magazines were full of solid state ignition articles.I found that the points were hard to keep clean because of the low current they handled.The points switched a power transistor.The 57 Ford radios used a transistor audio output.They were a common failure item.I am no stranger to solid state devises.I was there when they came in to use and spent many hours repairing solid state devises.I dont do TV repair these days.I do repair electric fence chargers.Guess what fails most often,solid state parts.I buy silicon diodes by the hundred.Solid state ignition failures are common.My truck lost one in my driveway.My friend had one fail on the rosd.It cost him 300 bucks.I was at a gun show,a fellow asked me if there was an auto parts store close by.His Ford truck had lost 3 ignition modules and needed a 4th one.When Ford moved the module to the distributor body the failures started.My friend has a 9N and Ive watched him take the distributor off the tractor in 5 minutes.I still do my own mechanic work.I replaced the spring hangers and gas tanks on my Ford truck.I had to weld up a new cross member and repair another.Ford wont supply a new crossmember.Made up 2 new crossmember for the box.Ford will sell the entire floor with crossmembers for 800 bucks.I cut logs for my sawmill so am far from being a helpless old man.Old age is nasty, just slows you down.

I don't think that they fail all that often. I base that on miles driven. I ran 3 different fords, all 302 V8's with the dizzy mounted moduals. 2 of the 3 had ignition failures. One was the modual and the other the pickup........both over 200,000 miles. That to me don't seem too unreliable.

I do agree that it's not a long job pulling the dizzy, but when wearing a knee brace (metal one with hinges) it becomes a pain job. It would help if I didn't have big hands too.....LOL....

Rick

I don't think that they fail all that often."....perhaps if you got one after the re-design, but when they first introduced the Thick Film Integrated module on the distributor to replace the big box Dura Spark II, they were a bad failure item and Ford payed out many, many millions of dollars for modules, labor, and towing on many different Ford vehicle types. This PU was on third one at 84,760 miles.

 

[oldtanker]

[/quote]

I kinda forgot about that......when they were having most of those problems I was kinda far removed from it.........in Germany for 4 1/2 years....LOL..... All the Fords I've had have been 79 and older or 86 and newer.

Rick

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 14:25:27 05/22/12)

I don't think that they fail all that often."....perhaps if you got one after the re-design, but when they first introduced the Thick Film Integrated module on the distributor to replace the big box Dura Spark II, they were a bad failure item and Ford payed out many, many millions of dollars for modules, labor, and towing on many different Ford vehicle types. This PU was on third one at 84,760 miles.
[/quote]a got lucky! It is not always good to be an "early adopter" of new designs.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 22:46:34 05/22/12)

(quoted from post at 14:25:27 05/22/12)

I don't think that they fail all that often."....perhaps if you got one after the re-design, but when they first introduced the Thick Film Integrated module on the distributor to replace the big box Dura Spark II, they were a bad failure item and Ford payed out many, many millions of dollars for modules, labor, and towing on many different Ford vehicle types. This PU was on third one at 84,760 miles.

Shoe comic as a mechanic

Customer "I guess I cant trust this old car for long trips anymore"

Shoe "OH I wouldn't say that"

Shoe "It got me to Hawaii Twice!"

Look it up 7/20/11 its a hoot!

I still have my HO-Made TFI tester and a box of used dist. with ground wires I could hook up to the cars TFI connector give the dist a spin if I herd the injectors click and spark jump I hit a home run... Life was so simple back then... Lets don't forget Fords quick lock AC connectors whut a kill...