code is different every place you go, here in illinois if you have farm income you can be considered ag-exempt. you will have to look into it more locally for you but i am sure there is some kinda ag-exemption where you live to. ag exempt here means the coad does not apply to us farmers. hope i could be a help
That question depends on your local authority and which version, if any, of the National Electrical Code (or their own particualr code)they may or may not have adopted, none of us here can answer that, check with them, its them, NOT us or our opinions, that matter.
Regardless if you use metallic conduit, or plastic conduit, or romex for standard household type 120 volt 20 amp branch circuits and grounded (3 prong) convenience outlets, you need, of course, 12/2 WITH ground wiring (3 WIRES TOTAL), thats One Hot (Black) One Neutral (A GrounDED Conductor, White) and One Equipment GroundING Conductor, green/bare.
I would have lighting on a seperate branch circuit from my convenience outlets. Dont forget if youre using a sub panel at the barn, unlike at the Main Service Panel, Neutral and Ground busses are kept seperate and isolated from each other,,,,,,,,,,If you serve a barn sub panel (like from a main panel at house etc) and want BOTH 120 and 240 volt (2 legs of 120) service, you need to run 4 NOT 3 wires out to the barn, thats 2 Hots (L1 & L2) 1 Neutral (A GrounDED Conductor) 1 Equipment GroundING Conductor) at least thats the latest NEC (but again subject to what your local authority says, years ago they only ran 3 wires),,,,,,,,Each building requires a Grounding Electrode
best wishes
John T Too long retired EE and rusty on the latest codes, so check with local authority NOT what I say
Regardless if you use metallic conduit, or plastic conduit, or romex for standard household type 120 volt 20 amp branch circuits and grounded (3 prong) convenience outlets, you need, of course, 12/2 WITH ground wiring (3 WIRES TOTAL), thats One Hot (Black) One Neutral (A GrounDED Conductor, White) and One Equipment GroundING Conductor, green/bare.
I would have lighting on a seperate branch circuit from my convenience outlets. Dont forget if youre using a sub panel at the barn, unlike at the Main Service Panel, Neutral and Ground busses are kept seperate and isolated from each other,,,,,,,,,,If you serve a barn sub panel (like from a main panel at house etc) and want BOTH 120 and 240 volt (2 legs of 120) service, you need to run 4 NOT 3 wires out to the barn, thats 2 Hots (L1 & L2) 1 Neutral (A GrounDED Conductor) 1 Equipment GroundING Conductor) at least thats the latest NEC (but again subject to what your local authority says, years ago they only ran 3 wires),,,,,,,,Each building requires a Grounding Electrode
best wishes
John T Too long retired EE and rusty on the latest codes, so check with local authority NOT what I say
John gave all the answers.
There is no conduit code where I live but up north where politics, unions, mofia, or whatever have a big hand conduit is required.
My main breaker at the pole has room for three service lines. so i just ran a separate line with panel for the barn, same amount of digging and the service in the barn is not a burden/load on the house service.
There is no conduit code where I live but up north where politics, unions, mofia, or whatever have a big hand conduit is required.
My main breaker at the pole has room for three service lines. so i just ran a separate line with panel for the barn, same amount of digging and the service in the barn is not a burden/load on the house service.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
As previously stated. Run four wires underground in conduit with a ground rod at the shed panel. OPen the bond between the neutral and ground in the shed panel.
Run the lights separate from receptacles.
60 amp Panel minimum.
Run the lights separate from receptacles.
60 amp Panel minimum.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
I don"t know if conduit is required in my neck of the woods either. Never asked.
John, remember when you and Maurie guided me around all the wiring for my barn. A couple of handy things I did was to split the lighting, so the whole thing wouldn't go dark all at once. Not a huge possibility, but...one extra switch and breaker. Did the same thing on my outlets, one 4-way outlet on each post. We alternated each post do that if I pop a breaker, I can use the box on the next post, and walk to the breaker box later and reset it.
Conduit is not required within walls, but some kind of jacketing (conduit or flexible) is required for exposed wiring.
Putting jacketed wire like romex is against NEC, no matter where you are. You have to use wire rated for a conduit, like THHN. The issue, and why jacketed wire cannot be put in conduit, is the ability of the wire to shed heat.
Putting jacketed wire like romex is against NEC, no matter where you are. You have to use wire rated for a conduit, like THHN. The issue, and why jacketed wire cannot be put in conduit, is the ability of the wire to shed heat.
Me and Ol Chief Inspector Maurie in Michigan have sparky chats pretty regular, I"m knee deep in theory (rusty on latest practices) while He"s current on the latest codes and practice, I ask him practical hands on questions and he asks me the theory of how n why its that way.
Yearsssssss ago my first EE supervisor tells me put the lights on their own branch circuits so if youre working and a conveniece outlet circuit trips you can still see !!!!!! Kind of a DUH nowadays years later
I like the way your shop is wired, many just hurry n get things done but yours is sooooooo much better. You can still see even if one lighting circuit goes dead......and plug to another outlet if n when its needed. I used to specify a lot of multi wire branch circuits (mostly indistrial) but wouldnt do that for farmer Billy Bobs shop cuz not understanding it could get him killed dead. Anybody who has wired their own shop with their know it all brother in law while downing a case of beer is an expert ya know lol NOT TALKIN ABOUT YOU NOW !!!!!!!! you know the people I mean lol
Have the grandkids wore out that new Gator yet?? I bet grandpa is havin fun drivin them around
John T
Yearsssssss ago my first EE supervisor tells me put the lights on their own branch circuits so if youre working and a conveniece outlet circuit trips you can still see !!!!!! Kind of a DUH nowadays years later
I like the way your shop is wired, many just hurry n get things done but yours is sooooooo much better. You can still see even if one lighting circuit goes dead......and plug to another outlet if n when its needed. I used to specify a lot of multi wire branch circuits (mostly indistrial) but wouldnt do that for farmer Billy Bobs shop cuz not understanding it could get him killed dead. Anybody who has wired their own shop with their know it all brother in law while downing a case of beer is an expert ya know lol NOT TALKIN ABOUT YOU NOW !!!!!!!! you know the people I mean lol
Have the grandkids wore out that new Gator yet?? I bet grandpa is havin fun drivin them around
John T
The grandkids loved the Gator, but what is better is that when I get tired of driving them, then the Moms and Dads can take over. Still had to get the tractors out for rides.
You're right that there are a lot of little ideas that can make for more convenience in the long run.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Exactly!! Don't ask. Don't tell. Just do it.
Forge Farmer
Member
As an electrician by trade I would recommend using either conduit or MC cable in any ag building on account of rodents. Mice and rats can chew right through romex and expose the wires and potentially cause a short. MC cable is about as flexible as romex but witha metal sheath.
Dave in SV
Member
Why split the Neutral and Ground in a subfed loadcenter? Also, I am intrigued by your emphasis between Neutral (a GrounDED conductor) and Eq GroundING Conductor... please explain!
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
We engineers, inspectors and techs in the electrical business have tried countless times to explain to "Bubba" . That the insulated current carrying neutral conductor is different than the ground conductors and grounding system.
It's no use trying to explain to the non electrical persons , the differences of.......
Just accept it. #1 Don't run neutral current on the ground system. #2 Don't try to ground something with the neutral conductors.
It's no use trying to explain to the non electrical persons , the differences of.......
Just accept it. #1 Don't run neutral current on the ground system. #2 Don't try to ground something with the neutral conductors.
I still recommend that he check the local codes and go from there. Locally the neutral and ground are not separated in a main service. He did not specify that the barn service was gonna be a sub panel, eh?
Also locally on the underground thing, if you use the proper wire type and depth, it is not necessary to run the feed in conduit.
Sigh, it is kinda early or I would hit John T up for a brew
Also locally on the underground thing, if you use the proper wire type and depth, it is not necessary to run the feed in conduit.
Sigh, it is kinda early or I would hit John T up for a brew
NOTE Im not upset at you or your excellent question Im glad you asked it, I get frustrated because for yearsssssssss Ive tried to explain this to lay persons but have failed miserably lol
If you dont seperate the Ground Buss from the Neutral Buss in the sub panel, then you're placing the Equipment Ground (GroundING Conductor) and the Neutral (GrounDED Conductor) in paralell and basically energizing the Equipment Ground system making it in paralell with a live current carrying conductor same as the Neutral !!!!!!!!! the Equipment Ground (GroundING Conducotr) is a dedicated wire for carrying fault current ONLY NOT NORMAL NEUTRAL RETURN CURRENT. Its NOT supposed to be energized and carrying normal return current allllllll the time like the insulated Neutral. Its connected to the outer metal saw and drill and kitchen appliance cases which you touch !!! Would you open an outlet or wiring and strip off the insulation of the Neutral and tell your kids to touch it!!!!!!!!!!! I sorta doubt it, but if you mix n match Neutral and the Equipmenmt Ground downstream from the panel youre placing the live current carrying Neutral (an insulated wire) in paralell with the circuit that is connected to an appliance or devices metal case you do touch !!!!!
If you notice, the Neutral is a live current carrying conductor and ITS AN INSULATED wire because it can be hazardous if you touch it. HOWEVER the equipment ground is bare and safe to touch and is even connected to the outer conductive metal case of appliances you handle!!! Sooooooooo if you re bond Neutral and Equipment Ground somewhere downstream, then youre making that metal appliance case the same as the insulated Neutral and if you touch it your body can from a paralell current path AND YOU CAN DIE!!!!!!!!!!
YES in the main panel Neutral and Equipment Ground are bonded together DUHHHHHHH how else can a fault current return so the breaker trips and saves your life BUT THEY ARE SEPERATE AND ISOLATED AT DOWNSTREAM SUB PANELS
I say the Neutral is a GrounDED conductor because at the transformer and main service entrance is is bonded to a "grounding electrode" tied to mother earth i.e. its a conductor that is grounded hmmmmm a grounDED conductor. The Equipment Ground, however, is a GroundING conductor, its sole purpose is for fault current return only to the common Neutral/Ground Buss in the main panel.
NOTE: I do not expect non electrical unexperienced non electrical untrained people to understand this, so dont feel bad if you dont, feel normal, youre NOT a bad person if you dont understand it. Its impossible to explain here in a paragraph what can take books and years of study to understand.
DISCLAIMER Im NOT asking you to believe me here, its true Ive been an Electrical Engineer forty two years BSEE Purdue 1970 and spent much of my life as a Electrical Distribution Design Engineer and attended numerous National Electrical Code (NEC) Training Seminars taught by experts and leaders in the field, instead BELIEVE THE EXPERTS AND TRAINED EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIANS AND TRAINED ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS AND THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE EXPERTS.
Im ONLY saying if you wish to place you and your kids and your grandkids lives at risk, you may want to consier that maybe just maybeeeeeee the experts who wrote the National Electrical Code and trained experienced professional electricians and electrical engineers just might possibly know more about electrical safety then Billy Bob and his know it all brother in law who wired their own house over a case of beer and by golly it works just fine making them experts who know more then professionals THINK ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU PLACE YOUR LIFE AT RISK, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE BILLY BOB OR THE ENGINEER/ELECTRICIAN AND NEC
Soooooooo dont believe me (Im retired and rusty on the latest NEC) but you may want to believe the experts and experienced professional engineers and electricians when they say DONT MIX N MATCH NEUTRAL AND GROUND AND DONT RE BOND NEUTRAL AND GROUND AT SUB PANELS AS THE NEC SAYS orrrrrrrrrrr you can trust your life based on what non trained non professional non experienced (except they did wire their own house) Billy Bob and Bubba say because Neutral and ground by golly are tied to the same point in the main panel and their house hasnt burend down YET LOL
Nuff said, consult NEC and Electricians and Engineers and take their advice instead of non trained Billy Bobs is my advice and hope..
John T
If you dont seperate the Ground Buss from the Neutral Buss in the sub panel, then you're placing the Equipment Ground (GroundING Conductor) and the Neutral (GrounDED Conductor) in paralell and basically energizing the Equipment Ground system making it in paralell with a live current carrying conductor same as the Neutral !!!!!!!!! the Equipment Ground (GroundING Conducotr) is a dedicated wire for carrying fault current ONLY NOT NORMAL NEUTRAL RETURN CURRENT. Its NOT supposed to be energized and carrying normal return current allllllll the time like the insulated Neutral. Its connected to the outer metal saw and drill and kitchen appliance cases which you touch !!! Would you open an outlet or wiring and strip off the insulation of the Neutral and tell your kids to touch it!!!!!!!!!!! I sorta doubt it, but if you mix n match Neutral and the Equipmenmt Ground downstream from the panel youre placing the live current carrying Neutral (an insulated wire) in paralell with the circuit that is connected to an appliance or devices metal case you do touch !!!!!
If you notice, the Neutral is a live current carrying conductor and ITS AN INSULATED wire because it can be hazardous if you touch it. HOWEVER the equipment ground is bare and safe to touch and is even connected to the outer conductive metal case of appliances you handle!!! Sooooooooo if you re bond Neutral and Equipment Ground somewhere downstream, then youre making that metal appliance case the same as the insulated Neutral and if you touch it your body can from a paralell current path AND YOU CAN DIE!!!!!!!!!!
YES in the main panel Neutral and Equipment Ground are bonded together DUHHHHHHH how else can a fault current return so the breaker trips and saves your life BUT THEY ARE SEPERATE AND ISOLATED AT DOWNSTREAM SUB PANELS
I say the Neutral is a GrounDED conductor because at the transformer and main service entrance is is bonded to a "grounding electrode" tied to mother earth i.e. its a conductor that is grounded hmmmmm a grounDED conductor. The Equipment Ground, however, is a GroundING conductor, its sole purpose is for fault current return only to the common Neutral/Ground Buss in the main panel.
NOTE: I do not expect non electrical unexperienced non electrical untrained people to understand this, so dont feel bad if you dont, feel normal, youre NOT a bad person if you dont understand it. Its impossible to explain here in a paragraph what can take books and years of study to understand.
DISCLAIMER Im NOT asking you to believe me here, its true Ive been an Electrical Engineer forty two years BSEE Purdue 1970 and spent much of my life as a Electrical Distribution Design Engineer and attended numerous National Electrical Code (NEC) Training Seminars taught by experts and leaders in the field, instead BELIEVE THE EXPERTS AND TRAINED EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIANS AND TRAINED ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS AND THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE EXPERTS.
Im ONLY saying if you wish to place you and your kids and your grandkids lives at risk, you may want to consier that maybe just maybeeeeeee the experts who wrote the National Electrical Code and trained experienced professional electricians and electrical engineers just might possibly know more about electrical safety then Billy Bob and his know it all brother in law who wired their own house over a case of beer and by golly it works just fine making them experts who know more then professionals THINK ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU PLACE YOUR LIFE AT RISK, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE BILLY BOB OR THE ENGINEER/ELECTRICIAN AND NEC
Soooooooo dont believe me (Im retired and rusty on the latest NEC) but you may want to believe the experts and experienced professional engineers and electricians when they say DONT MIX N MATCH NEUTRAL AND GROUND AND DONT RE BOND NEUTRAL AND GROUND AT SUB PANELS AS THE NEC SAYS orrrrrrrrrrr you can trust your life based on what non trained non professional non experienced (except they did wire their own house) Billy Bob and Bubba say because Neutral and ground by golly are tied to the same point in the main panel and their house hasnt burend down YET LOL
Nuff said, consult NEC and Electricians and Engineers and take their advice instead of non trained Billy Bobs is my advice and hope..
John T
NOTE this is copied from my reply below to a question about why in a downstream sub panel the Neutral Buss and Equipment Ground Busses are (unlike at main panel where they are tied together) kept seprate and isolated !!
I felt it worth repeating as it could save someones life
NOTE Im not upset at you or your excellent question Im glad you asked it, I get frustrated because for yearsssssssss Ive tried to explain this to lay persons but have failed miserably lol
If you dont seperate the Ground Buss from the Neutral Buss in the sub panel, then you're placing the Equipment Ground (GroundING Conductor) and the Neutral (GrounDED Conductor) in paralell and basically energizing the Equipment Ground system making it in paralell with a live current carrying conductor same as the Neutral !!!!!!!!! the Equipment Ground (GroundING Conducotr) is a dedicated wire for carrying fault current ONLY NOT NORMAL NEUTRAL RETURN CURRENT. Its NOT supposed to be energized and carrying normal return current allllllll the time like the insulated Neutral. Its connected to the outer metal saw and drill and kitchen appliance cases which you touch !!! Would you open an outlet or wiring and strip off the insulation of the Neutral and tell your kids to touch it!!!!!!!!!!! I sorta doubt it, but if you mix n match Neutral and the Equipmenmt Ground downstream from the panel youre placing the live current carrying Neutral (an insulated wire) in paralell with the circuit that is connected to an appliance or devices metal case you do touch !!!!!
If you notice, the Neutral is a live current carrying conductor and ITS AN INSULATED wire because it can be hazardous if you touch it. HOWEVER the equipment ground is bare and safe to touch and is even connected to the outer conductive metal case of appliances you handle!!! Sooooooooo if you re bond Neutral and Equipment Ground somewhere downstream, then youre making that metal appliance case the same as the insulated Neutral and if you touch it your body can from a paralell current path AND YOU CAN DIE!!!!!!!!!!
YES in the main panel Neutral and Equipment Ground are bonded together DUHHHHHHH how else can a fault current return so the breaker trips and saves your life BUT THEY ARE SEPERATE AND ISOLATED AT DOWNSTREAM SUB PANELS
I say the Neutral is a GrounDED conductor because at the transformer and main service entrance is is bonded to a "grounding electrode" tied to mother earth i.e. its a conductor that is grounded hmmmmm a grounDED conductor. The Equipment Ground, however, is a GroundING conductor, its sole purpose is for fault current return only to the common Neutral/Ground Buss in the main panel.
NOTE: I do not expect non electrical unexperienced non electrical untrained people to understand this, so dont feel bad if you dont, feel normal, youre NOT a bad person if you dont understand it. Its impossible to explain here in a paragraph what can take books and years of study to understand.
DISCLAIMER Im NOT asking you to believe me here, its true Ive been an Electrical Engineer forty two years BSEE Purdue 1970 and spent much of my life as a Electrical Distribution Design Engineer and attended numerous National Electrical Code (NEC) Training Seminars taught by experts and leaders in the field, instead BELIEVE THE EXPERTS AND TRAINED EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIANS AND TRAINED ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS AND THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE EXPERTS.
Im ONLY saying if you wish to place you and your kids and your grandkids lives at risk, you may want to consier that maybe just maybeeeeeee the experts who wrote the National Electrical Code and trained experienced professional electricians and electrical engineers just might possibly know more about electrical safety then Billy Bob and his know it all brother in law who wired their own house over a case of beer and by golly it works just fine making them experts who know more then professionals THINK ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU PLACE YOUR LIFE AT RISK, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE BILLY BOB OR THE ENGINEER/ELECTRICIAN AND NEC
Soooooooo dont believe me if you choose (Im retired and rusty on the latest NEC) but you may want to believe the experts and experienced professional engineers and electricians when they say DONT MIX N MATCH NEUTRAL AND GROUND AND DONT RE BOND NEUTRAL AND GROUND AT SUB PANELS AS THE NEC SAYS orrrrrrrrrrr you can trust your life based on what non trained non professional non experienced (except they did wire their own house) Billy Bob and Bubba say because Neutral and ground by golly are tied to the same point in the main panel and their house hasnt burned down YET LOL
Nuff said, consult NEC and Electricians and Engineers and take their advice instead of non trained Billy Bobs is my advice and hope..
John T
I felt it worth repeating as it could save someones life
NOTE Im not upset at you or your excellent question Im glad you asked it, I get frustrated because for yearsssssssss Ive tried to explain this to lay persons but have failed miserably lol
If you dont seperate the Ground Buss from the Neutral Buss in the sub panel, then you're placing the Equipment Ground (GroundING Conductor) and the Neutral (GrounDED Conductor) in paralell and basically energizing the Equipment Ground system making it in paralell with a live current carrying conductor same as the Neutral !!!!!!!!! the Equipment Ground (GroundING Conducotr) is a dedicated wire for carrying fault current ONLY NOT NORMAL NEUTRAL RETURN CURRENT. Its NOT supposed to be energized and carrying normal return current allllllll the time like the insulated Neutral. Its connected to the outer metal saw and drill and kitchen appliance cases which you touch !!! Would you open an outlet or wiring and strip off the insulation of the Neutral and tell your kids to touch it!!!!!!!!!!! I sorta doubt it, but if you mix n match Neutral and the Equipmenmt Ground downstream from the panel youre placing the live current carrying Neutral (an insulated wire) in paralell with the circuit that is connected to an appliance or devices metal case you do touch !!!!!
If you notice, the Neutral is a live current carrying conductor and ITS AN INSULATED wire because it can be hazardous if you touch it. HOWEVER the equipment ground is bare and safe to touch and is even connected to the outer conductive metal case of appliances you handle!!! Sooooooooo if you re bond Neutral and Equipment Ground somewhere downstream, then youre making that metal appliance case the same as the insulated Neutral and if you touch it your body can from a paralell current path AND YOU CAN DIE!!!!!!!!!!
YES in the main panel Neutral and Equipment Ground are bonded together DUHHHHHHH how else can a fault current return so the breaker trips and saves your life BUT THEY ARE SEPERATE AND ISOLATED AT DOWNSTREAM SUB PANELS
I say the Neutral is a GrounDED conductor because at the transformer and main service entrance is is bonded to a "grounding electrode" tied to mother earth i.e. its a conductor that is grounded hmmmmm a grounDED conductor. The Equipment Ground, however, is a GroundING conductor, its sole purpose is for fault current return only to the common Neutral/Ground Buss in the main panel.
NOTE: I do not expect non electrical unexperienced non electrical untrained people to understand this, so dont feel bad if you dont, feel normal, youre NOT a bad person if you dont understand it. Its impossible to explain here in a paragraph what can take books and years of study to understand.
DISCLAIMER Im NOT asking you to believe me here, its true Ive been an Electrical Engineer forty two years BSEE Purdue 1970 and spent much of my life as a Electrical Distribution Design Engineer and attended numerous National Electrical Code (NEC) Training Seminars taught by experts and leaders in the field, instead BELIEVE THE EXPERTS AND TRAINED EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIANS AND TRAINED ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS AND THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE EXPERTS.
Im ONLY saying if you wish to place you and your kids and your grandkids lives at risk, you may want to consier that maybe just maybeeeeeee the experts who wrote the National Electrical Code and trained experienced professional electricians and electrical engineers just might possibly know more about electrical safety then Billy Bob and his know it all brother in law who wired their own house over a case of beer and by golly it works just fine making them experts who know more then professionals THINK ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU PLACE YOUR LIFE AT RISK, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE BILLY BOB OR THE ENGINEER/ELECTRICIAN AND NEC
Soooooooo dont believe me if you choose (Im retired and rusty on the latest NEC) but you may want to believe the experts and experienced professional engineers and electricians when they say DONT MIX N MATCH NEUTRAL AND GROUND AND DONT RE BOND NEUTRAL AND GROUND AT SUB PANELS AS THE NEC SAYS orrrrrrrrrrr you can trust your life based on what non trained non professional non experienced (except they did wire their own house) Billy Bob and Bubba say because Neutral and ground by golly are tied to the same point in the main panel and their house hasnt burned down YET LOL
Nuff said, consult NEC and Electricians and Engineers and take their advice instead of non trained Billy Bobs is my advice and hope..
John T
Dave in SV
Member
I appreciate the explanation, John! I am a bit more experienced than Billy Bob, but that really doesn't matter as far as I am concerned. I was curious, regardless of my training background, so I asked. Thanks again... it makes sense to me!
Dave in SV
Member
If I am understanding your tone, you made a bad assumption... but that's OK, you taught me something I didn't even ask any questions about.
Youre welcome, Im glad you understand it, I wasnt lecturing you, but the Billy Bobs who wired their own homes and are now self proclaimed experts who know more then the NEC experts and are handing out advice here which could get someone killed!!!!!!!
And Thank you also for a great reasonable question
John T
And Thank you also for a great reasonable question
John T
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
It's ok.
Part of the problem is electrical service installation practices that are a nasty hangover to this day.
The overhead triplex service with two hots and the neutral causes confusion and electrical shocks ( tingle voltage ) to live stock.
With the tri-plex over head service . If the neutral and the ground rod system at the panels are not isolated. Neutral current will flow in the ground system. This sets up a voltage gradient and raise the ground system above true earth potential.
Problem is livestock can sense 2/10 to 3/10 of a volt or higher. And they don't like the voltage across the nose to the hooves.
Some areas mandate that the triplexs neutral and the ground system at the remote panel be bonded.
Depends too if it's the 1st panel then supplied to sub panels. If the utility transformer is in the middle of the yard and the several triplexs run to several buildings.
Some inspectors allow the neutral to float on a triplex supplied remote panel.And require an efficient ground rod system at the remote panel.
If all the single phase services were supplied with an underground or overhead with two live, one neutral and one ground. Everything would be simpler and work better.
Part of the problem is electrical service installation practices that are a nasty hangover to this day.
The overhead triplex service with two hots and the neutral causes confusion and electrical shocks ( tingle voltage ) to live stock.
With the tri-plex over head service . If the neutral and the ground rod system at the panels are not isolated. Neutral current will flow in the ground system. This sets up a voltage gradient and raise the ground system above true earth potential.
Problem is livestock can sense 2/10 to 3/10 of a volt or higher. And they don't like the voltage across the nose to the hooves.
Some areas mandate that the triplexs neutral and the ground system at the remote panel be bonded.
Depends too if it's the 1st panel then supplied to sub panels. If the utility transformer is in the middle of the yard and the several triplexs run to several buildings.
Some inspectors allow the neutral to float on a triplex supplied remote panel.And require an efficient ground rod system at the remote panel.
If all the single phase services were supplied with an underground or overhead with two live, one neutral and one ground. Everything would be simpler and work better.
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