power director

[sodly]

As someone new to AC, can anyone explain how the Power Director works in the D-17 and D-19? I've read a bit about it but I'm still not clear. It seems different than IH's T/A and MM's Apli-Torque (which I think are just basically a lo/hi selector). I've also seen people run the PD as sort of a hand clutch to stop and start the tractor moving. Or was I just seeing things. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Bill(Wis)]

It serves as a clutch as well as a speed reducer for each of the four forward and one reverse gear giving you "two for one". In that respect, it is doing the same thing as a Farmall TA. BUT, it also has a center neutral position which stops the tractor movement but allows the PTO and hydraulics to operate. Stepping on the foot clutch stops everything. Unless you have a series IV D17 which has live hydraulics no matter which clutch you use. Unlike the Farmall TA, this thing is indestructable.

 

[sodly]

Thanks, Bill. I presume all the gears paired together by the PD are progressive shifts, right? I mean, they're two closely spaced gears. Is one side considered "low" and one side "high?" Do you always start with the PD back and then push forward for higher speed if needed? Or does it matter? Seems like an odd "live PTO" arrangement since, if you step on the clutch, you lose PTO, right? I guess you would have to really use the PD lever as your forward motion clutch much like a JD two cylinder (if you want your PTO to stay live, that is). Doesn't seem like it would be a very handy chore tractor that way. You say the PD is pretty indestructible? Interesting because you hear nothing but horror stories about the IH and MM T/As. Thanks for all your help.

 

[sodly]

Oh, forgot to ask.... do you also lose 3 pt lift ability when the foot clutch is pushed in? Yikes, that would be inconvenient.

 

[Cas]

We bought an AC 190D in 1969. I am not sure
how it works, we put 9000 hours on the tractor
before we sold it. The tractor was severly
abused and the power director never failed.

 

[ohio]

Have you ever used a WD? Works just like the hand clutch, only with two speed selections. Some industrials had shuttle clutches instead. (forward/reverse)

A handier setup you will not find. (once you get used to it)

 

[sodly]

No, I've never been around AC stuff much. That's why I'm asking questions. I always thought a D-17, or such, would make a great little chore or acreage tractor. But it seems like that PD would be a less than ideal set up. Running anything that required constant PTO but a lot of stop and go or forward/reversing with the hand clutch would be difficult. Not impossible, but not ideal. I also read that you cannot shift gears on the go at all (except with the PD). Is that correct?

 

[ohio]

If there is proper clearance in the clutch packs, and they are not warped, you should be able to make gear changes without the foot clutch. Not to start out, mind you, but if you put the pd in neutral and come to a stop, you should be able to select another gear. It just depends on if things are spinning in the transmission. My WD45, i can easily change gears with the hand clutch, if I use my head. I find it as convinient as any setup I"ve used. I absolutely ahbor two stage clutches.

 

[Texas Denny]

After reading all of the posts, I'm wondering if you are serious about a D-17 or not.

 

[sodly]

Oh, I'm [i:654e5d9bcb]very[/i:654e5d9bcb] serious... about learning about these models and how they work. I didn't know I had to be a prospective buyer to ask questions here.

Does anyone know about the 3 point function when the foot clutch is pressed?

 

[Skyhighballoon(MO)]

(quoted from post at 03:38:12 09/15/09) Oh, I'm [i:48dcdca3ae]very[/i:48dcdca3ae] serious... about learning about these models and how they work. I didn't know I had to be a prospective buyer to ask questions here.

Does anyone know about the 3 point function when the foot clutch is pressed?

Allis-Chalmers made four different Series of the D17 but only the Series III (SN42001 to SN75000) and Series IV (SN75001 to the end) were decal-ed as such and Series I & II were unofficial designations.

Series I, II & III D17 tractors had piston type high pressure (3500 psi) pump inside the torque tube. Hydraulics do stop on these when you push in the foot clutch but continue working when the Power Director is put in neutral just like the PTO.

This is exactly why Allis designed the tractors with the oil bath two speed clutch pack Power Director so you could have BOTH live PTO & hydraulics (but not independent) and a two speed power shift that would stand up to constant slipping & abuse compared to two stage foot clutches or TA type arrangements.

Also, using the PD while doing PTO work has an added advantage of disconnecting the transmission from the PTO keeping implements like brush hogs or balers with rotary inertia from driving the tractor forward which you can't stop by just pushing in the foot clutch.

If you ever have driven an Allis with the PD hand clutch, it is a darn handy and I sure love my D17 for most field work and chores. I do agree that for loader work without a "powershift" for reverse like modern tractors, it is not the best tractor to stop and use the foot clutch to shift the non-synchronized collar-shift transmission between gears. Allis did make some D series and Hundred series tractors with a shuttle instead of a power director. In those models the lever was on the left instead of the right and instead of high and low you had forward and reverse. THOSE make great loader tractors but are very uncommon (but not rare).

Note Series I, II & III D17's all were equipped with the Allis Snap Coupler system and a factory 3 point was not produced. 3 point adapters are available today for them.

The D17 Series IV had a standard pressure (2200 psi) rotary pump mounted in the old belt pulley location that driven off a hollow quill shaft from the flywheel. This was true independent hydraulics and continued to work regardless of the PD or foot clutch. Series IV units also could be had with optional Cat 2 factory 3 point or Snap coupler.

Hope this helps. Mike

 

[sodly]

Thanks for the thorough response, Mike. So, sounds like a series IV will at least have three point function while the foot clutch is depressed... just not PTO function. I'm not sure I follow you on the advantage of the PD with bush hogs or bailers. Could you elaborate?

 

[Skyhighballoon(MO)]

I'm not familiar with with the internal workings of other brands of tractors so I'm not sure to how many these comments apply.

In Allis tractors like the D15, D17, D19 & similar tractors like the 170/175/180/185/190 the PTO power is supplied to the PTO shaft BEHIND the flywheel foot clutch but AHEAD of the Power Director and transmission. If you push down the foot clutch you disconnect the engine power from both the PTO and the transmission. However, those two shafts are still mechanically connected internally. If you are running a PTO implement with a large amount of flywheel inertia stored up like a square baler or a brush hog, that rotating force is still turning the PTO shaft that is still mechanically connected to the transmission and it will continue to propel the tractor forward. Since the PD clutch sits between the spot where the PTO is engaged in the torque tube and transmission, putting it in neutral breaks the connection and that rotating force will no longer drive the tractor forward.

The nice thing about the Allis PD clutch is that it rides in an oil bath so if you get into a heavy spot baling, brush hogging, etc you just put the PD in neutral or slip it as needed to go slower. The PTO implement keeps doing it's thing and when you ready to go faster again you fully engage it to go back to your regular speed again.

I know some older tractors without any type of 2nd/hand clutch or a 2 stage foot clutch would have this issue. That is why the farm stores sell the ratcheting type PTO overrunning devices for them. I'm not familiar with exactly how 2 stage foot clutches work with other brands but they may accomplish the same thing. Mike

 

[sodly]

Thanks again, Mike. Wow... I wish I saw such well-explained posts like yours more often around the YT boards. Well spoken and well reasoned folks like you should post more often!

 

[scot in pa]

The Allis set-up also allows you to spin the PTO backward, which is handy for clearing plugs in things like round balers.

Pull uphill, hit the clutch, let it roll back slowly, and feather the hand clutch. I'm glad my uncle showed up before I plugged the baler again that day.

 

[NEKS]

The Power Director is very handy when baling big round bales. While everybody else is pushing there foot clutch in to put twine on the bale, you just snap the Power Director into neutral.