Power steering for an 8N?

[norm s]

I'm sure this had probably been covered
before in this forum but I can't find any
reference to it. Can power steering be put
on an 8N? Since I put the loader back on
mine is monstrously hard to steer. Sure be
nice to have PS like my 961 has. Any
feedback is appreciated. Thanks guys!

Norm

 

[W_B]

I seem to recall threads on this subject in the past. Conclusion seemed to be not worth it due to the cost of parts and/or the amount of fabrication needed. But if you have the parts needed, or deep pockets, and can do the fab work, go for it. Might be a fun project.

 

[Dollar Bill]

Not an endorsement but merely reference - [b:0bd1ec1e7a][color=darkblue:0bd1ec1e7a][u:0bd1ec1e7a]Jackson Power Steering[/u:0bd1ec1e7a][/color:0bd1ec1e7a][/b:0bd1ec1e7a]

 

[Ultradog MN]

I think for the average N owner it's generally a losing proposition.
Best to buy a newer tractor that has it, put your loader on it and use the N for other tasks.
That said, if I HAD to put PS on an N I would start with the complete ps system off a 600/800.
A late 8N steering box is quite similar to those on the later tractors. Modify a late column to fit your 8N.
Shortening and using the 600 ps drag links and grafting the steering cylinder anchors onto 8N radius rods would be simple. Then the 600 steering cylinders would fit. Adding the pump and reservour would not be hard.

The hardest part would be adapting the 600 steering column - which has the hyd controls internally - to fit your dash panel so it didn't look like a cave man did it.
If you have good welding skills and access to a lathe the whole job could be done without too much trouble.
I think if I was to do it I would upsize the ps pump a bit, use a priority valve and give the tractor live hydraulics and power beyond at the same time.
Someone like Old Hokie could help you with the plumbing.
To ramble a bit here; to me the biggest lack the Ns have is live hydraulics. Second is power steering. Some folks say live pto too.
I would choose power steering over live pto about 2 to 1.

 

[Tom/Idaho]

I installed electric power steering on my 1948 8N loader tractor last December and use it nearly everyday. Terrific addition and have not had a single problem. Rather than cobble up the original dash I fabricated a dash using the original throttle control and also fabricated braces for the rear of the hood. I am not a design engineer and my fabrication would not win any awards but it may be a couple steps above that of a cave man.
I have also added a water temp gauge and a governor with proofmeter installed in my fabricated dash. While I would not enter it in a tractor show it is very usable and satisfies my needs. As I got some of the parts from Epowersteering.com there is a picture of my tractor in their photo gallery.
As Dell used to say, it"s your tractor.
Tom/Idaho

 

[Lester Isby]

I put 2006 Chevy Equinox electric power steering on my 48 8n. Wasn't a quick easy job, had 3 do over's because something didn't work or I didn't like the way something was. Been at it 2 years on and off. Just finshed it in time for this winter. Your tractor has to be 12 volt, I bought a 8n steering box on ebay with the dash and bracket and hand throttle on it, So I didn't have to lay the tractor up and an electric power steering unit at the junk yard and the controller unit at ePowerSteering.com. Google ePowerSteering.com they have everything you will need if you decide to go this way and are very help full with any questions you may have. The only drawback is the EPS will not work with the engine at an idle. It draws 30 amps when you turn the steering wheel. I may check with ePowerSteering.com to see if there is any way to remedy this a bigger alternator or something.

 

[Tom/Idaho]

Mine works just fine at idle. Perhaps your controller needs adjusting. I started out with the controller from Portugal and then switched to one from Epowersteering.com.
Works great,
Tom/Idaho

 

[Lester Isby]

Thanks Tom, I did the same with controllers, I'll check with ePowerSteering.com to see what the problem is.

 

[Dean]

Agreed, UD.

Though one can accomplish many things with enough money and/or time, some things do not make economic sense.

Unless my 8N had significant sentimental value, I would buy a newer tractor with PS, live hydraulics, live PTO, more HP and other creature comforts, sell the 8N and come out with about $1,000 - $1,500 out of pocket and no large project.

Currently, there is a 3000 gasser with 4X2 transmission, what look to be good tires, etc. (can't tell from single photo about PS), less than 10 miles from me priced at $2,500.

Dean

 

[Tom/Idaho]

I just went out to the shop and re-checked mine. When I turn on the key I hear a click and have power steering without
the motor running. I think yours should do the same. epowersteering.com told me one must have/hear the click for the unit to work. Your earlier posts about this are what prompted me to try it.
Thank you,
Tom/Idaho

 

[Lester Isby]

Tom, mine clicks the way it should, but if the tractor is idling can't hardly turn the wheel,if I rev it up a few hundred rpm's I can palm it.

 

[Tom/Idaho]

Can you load test your battery?

 

[Lester Isby]

Yes I will do that. Thanks

 

[Ultradog MN]

[i:654c4848f0]"Currently, there is a 3000 gasser with 4X2 transmission, what look to be good tires, etc. (can't tell from single photo about PS), less than 10 miles from me priced at $2,500."[/i:654c4848f0]

You're preaching to the choir here but we're not going to pry the Ns out of these guys hands even if we give 3000s away for free.

 

[norm s]

Thanks for the feedback guys. So a couple of questions about the discussions. First, I looked at both the epowersteering and Jackson Power Steering. I am assuming that you folks that have used epowersteering systems have adapted one of their kits to your tractor since I find no tractor specific kits? As for Jackson, looks like you get a kit that you "simply" install on your tractor.

Second question. Many of you commented about modifying the steering column - not sure what that discussion is all about unless it refers to modifying it to accept the EPS system from epowersteering.

Last question. Why couldn't you modify the tractor and use a system from say, a 900 series tractor. Those systems just have a pump, cylinder, and valve that sits on the end of the steering arm. There would be no modification needed to the steering gear assy - unless I'm missing something. I realize that the 8N has two steering arms whereas the 900 series just has one but if the cylinder was mounted on one of the arms, wouldn't that actuate both of the arms through the steering column? Maybe I'm trying to oversimplify...

Thanks

Norm

 

[Ultradog MN]

There is a kit that adds PS to the 3000/3600 type tractors.
Those use the actuator valving in the base of the cylinder much like on a 900 with the steering arm on just one side.
It's all done on the left side of the tractor and has a cross tie rod that goes under the front of the tractor from left to right.
Some guys on the Ford board have installed them and like them but... I do think they come with a warning that they are not for loader work. I don't know why.
As to adding an electric unit I have argued against that style before for this reason:
All of the PS systems on these wishbone type steering systems are actually power assist.
They apply the power IN FRONT of the steering sector gears. The electric units apply power BEHIND the sector gears. So they are essentially like a 300 lb man ham handing the steering wheel all the time.
I think for a guy who has a light, non loader tractor an electric system would give him quick and easy one handed steering for mowing, etc.
But if you use that type on a loader tractor you will wear out or break your sector gears in a hurry.
I really don't think it would be that hard to modify a 600 style steering column to fit an 8N. You may have to change the angle of the column a little and I'd guess they're a bit taller. Neither of those issues would be difficult to correct - if you have access to a lathe, maybe a mill and of course a welder.
Ford used almost the exact same power assist system on all the smaller tractors with wishbone front ends from 1955 till well into the mid 1980s. They were simple, reliable and rebuildable.
I have thought about this topic a lot over the years.
If I am allowed to toot my own horn a bit I'm one of a couple of Ford power steering 'experts' on the Ford Board here and on other sites.
IF I was really, really caught up with the Ns I would have done this by now. I know I could.
But I really do think that rather than go through all that expense and effort a guy is Much better off upgrading to a newer tractor. A newer tractor like a 600/800/2000/3000/4000 can be had with Factory power steering plus a host of other desirable options for not much more $ than an N. They can certainly be had for LESS than an N plus a bunch of add ons and engineering.

Click on the link below for the aftermarket 3000 type steering.
3000 PS on Ebay

 

[docmirror]

(quoted from post at 22:15:20 11/10/18)
Last question. Why couldn't you modify the tractor and use a system from say, a 900 series tractor. Those systems just have a pump, cylinder, and valve that sits on the end of the steering arm. There would be no modification needed to the steering gear assy - unless I'm missing something. I realize that the 8N has two steering arms whereas the 900 series just has one but if the cylinder was mounted on one of the arms, wouldn't that actuate both of the arms through the steering column? Maybe I'm trying to oversimplify...

Thanks

Norm

Not really. The arms from the steering box are independently driven by the gearwheel inside. If you run a hyd cyl to one of the arms you will only have half a ps setup. which is why the Jackson has two arms. The modification would be to add a lever arm to the pitman and use a cross rod between the two a-la a go-kart or old Ford truck style. In that way, you could use one ram on the cross arm to move both wheels. I have considered making up a pivot for the pitman arms and do the cross arm with one ram before $$$$$ the Jackson deal.