PTO Rotation Direction

[AGSC2021]

Hi All,

I've got a '63 or '64 ford 4000, model
41301-S-D. The sherman auxiliary
transmission is one of those switching
jobs, 4 sp fwd, 4 sp rev, because I've read
that was common for FEL configurations.

My question, does the PTO change rotation
direction based on fwd vs. rev? Doesnt seem
likely, but unless I'm completely missing
something it changes between ccw and cw
based on forward or reverse.

I'm on a couple acres, so I do a lot of
forward and reverse work. So any implement
that carries a lot inertia pose a problem
if this is the case.

Is there a practical way to modify the
system for uni-rotation use?

Thanks,
AG

 

[old]

NO change in PTO direction

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 21:13:57 12/11/21) NO change in PTO direction

Are you sure? The Sherman reverser changes the rotation of the input shaft on the main trans, and a 4 speed has a trans driven PTO, so wouldn't switching the Sherman from 4 forward to 4 reverse speeds change the rotational direction of the PTO?

 

[old]

How can the input shaft be reversed?? It is the shaft that goes into the clutch and then it in turn goes to the transmission

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 01:26:13 12/12/21) How can the input shaft be reversed?? It is the shaft that goes into the clutch and then it in turn goes to the transmission

Mounted in front of the transmission, between the engine clutch and transmission, it reversed the input to the transmission. With the input rotation reversed it would seem the PTO rotation would reverse as well.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 01:26:13 12/12/21) How can the input shaft be reversed?? It is the shaft that goes into the clutch and then it in turn goes to the transmission

Sorry, incorrect terminology. The Sherman actually replaces the original input shaft for the transmission and it reverses the rotation of the main shaft when you switch it from forward to reverse.

 

[RobCons]

Cant speak to the rotation but gut feeling is it stays the same. For the inertia part of your question use a over running clutch. It slips onto the tractors pto shaft and the bush hog then attaches to it. The ORC is like a ratchett so the mower can continue to spin without pushing the tractor with its inertia.

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 08:35:27 12/12/21) Cant speak to the rotation but gut feeling is it stays the same. For the inertia part of your question use a over running clutch. It slips onto the tractors pto shaft and the bush hog then attaches to it. The ORC is like a ratchett so the mower can continue to spin without pushing the tractor with its inertia.

The Sherman output gear replaces the tractor's original transmission input shaft. When shifted into reverse, the Sherman reverses the rotation going into the transmission so everything in the transmission reverses rotation, including the PTO.

Here is a picture, from an old post, of one warbaby had. The output gear which goes into the transmission, in place of the original input shaft and its gear, is visible.

 

[Dean]

Yes. PTO shaft is reversed.

Install an ORC for use with PTO driven loads.

Should have one in any event with transmission driven PTO.

Dean

 

[RobCons]

Interesting topic. So with a Sherman you cant cut in reverse? Like backing underneath trees.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 10:08:44 12/12/21) Interesting topic. So with a Sherman you cant cut in reverse? Like backing underneath trees.

Sure you can. Just leave the Sherman in forward and put the main trans in reverse.

The Sherman Reverser was designed for loader use and so it isn't really designed for any PTO implements to be used while it is in its reverse mode, but the main shifter has 4 forward gears and 1 reverse gear, and those all work normally while the Sherman in in it's normal rotation mode.

 

[JMOR]

Sean, it is nice having folks like you know and provide info to those seeking it.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 11:08:02 12/12/21) Sean, it is nice having folks like you know and provide info to those seeking it.

Thanks and back at you with your knowledgeable posts, especially your electrical diagrams. I see them being referenced on many other tractor forums as well as here.

I just noticed, you joined here on my 49th birthday.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 11:34:09 12/12/21)

(quoted from post at 11:08:02 12/12/21) Sean, it is nice having folks like you know and provide info to those seeking it.

Thanks and back at you with your knowledgeable posts, especially your electrical diagrams. I see them being referenced on many other tractor forums as well as here.

I just noticed, you joined here on my 49th birthday.

hank you. Funny thing I saw a few weeks ago: on ebay, Marketplace or one of those sell stuff sites, was someone trying to sell one of my diagrams for $11.95! :roll:

 

[AGSC2021]

Ah I see what's going on now.I have the
shift diagram from the manual, but can't
find reverse on the main transmission. From
what I've read, that's not uncommon on
these tractors with a FEL and Sherman
reversing auxiliary transmission.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 17:24:25 12/12/21) Ah I see what's going on now.I have the
shift diagram from the manual, but can't
find reverse on the main transmission. From
what I've read, that's not uncommon on
these tractors with a FEL and Sherman
reversing auxiliary transmission.

ush down on shift lever before moving. think VW Bug.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 12:42:29 12/12/21)

(quoted from post at 11:34:09 12/12/21)

(quoted from post at 11:08:02 12/12/21) Sean, it is nice having folks like you know and provide info to those seeking it.

Thanks and back at you with your knowledgeable posts, especially your electrical diagrams. I see them being referenced on many other tractor forums as well as here.

I just noticed, you joined here on my 49th birthday.

hank you. Funny thing I saw a few weeks ago: on ebay, Marketplace or one of those sell stuff sites, was someone trying to sell one of my diagrams for $11.95! :roll:

Man, that's a million dollar Federal Copyright law suit right there, and if we can prove that they did it knowingly then the damages are automatically tripled. I'm willing to be a witness that you were the original author, for a small "expert witness" fee, of course.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 19:41:48 12/12/21)

(quoted from post at 12:42:29 12/12/21)

(quoted from post at 11:34:09 12/12/21)

(quoted from post at 11:08:02 12/12/21) Sean, it is nice having folks like you know and provide info to those seeking it.

Thanks and back at you with your knowledgeable posts, especially your electrical diagrams. I see them being referenced on many other tractor forums as well as here.

I just noticed, you joined here on my 49th birthday.

hank you. Funny thing I saw a few weeks ago: on ebay, Marketplace or one of those sell stuff sites, was someone trying to sell one of my diagrams for $11.95! :roll:

Man, that's a million dollar Federal Copyright law suit right there, and if we can prove that they did it knowingly then the damages are automatically tripled. I'm willing to be a witness that you were the original author, for a small "expert witness" fee, of course.

hey are out there for the whole world to use, see & enjoy and if some dummy wants to pay some JA $ for them, well, as P.T. Barnum said, there is one born every minute.

 

[AGSC2021]

(quoted from post at 14:36:06 12/12/21)

(quoted from post at 17:24:25 12/12/21) Ah I see what's going on now.I have the
shift diagram from the manual, but can't
find reverse on the main transmission. From
what I've read, that's not uncommon on
these tractors with a FEL and Sherman
reversing auxiliary transmission.

ush down on shift lever before moving. think VW Bug.

I remember trying that when I just got the tractor, because that's just how the reverse on my car works. I just tried it again with now luck. I can pull the stick up, and feel the spring in that case, but I'm not able to push it down. Maybe it is locked up?

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Yep, a scumbag fleabay seller has scanned your WIRING PICTOGRAMS and listed them for sale/auction. I spotted them a few months ago, and also sent the seller a nasty
message that he was ripping off a dedicated Ford Tractor technical advisor who compiled the info himself and posts them on a Ford tractor site so one can get them for
FREE anyway. He never replied and I see he is still listing them. Hope he hasn't sold any. Years ago I saw on fleabay a Ford Tractor manual someone was selling. It was
one I had scanned and posted in the manuals forum. How did I know? It had a hand written note on the cover from the original buyer I got it from, probably the original
owner of the tractor. I also sent him a message he had breached protocol and ethics. He took the ad down and I never saw it again but he never replied either. I
suppose, a lawyer would argue, if it's posted on the Internet, it is open to public domain and is not subject to prosecution.

Tim Daley(MI)

 

[Eman85]

The Sherman is an aftermarket add on from what I understand about them. Wouldn't think they made the tractor without a reverse and relied on the Sherman for reverse. It does make sense that it would reverse the PTO rotation since it replaces the input shaft and would reverse the input direction into the transmission. As far as the loader that would make more sense as it would be like a shuttle.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 13:31:02 12/13/21) The Sherman is an aftermarket add on from what I understand about them. Wouldn't think they made the tractor without a reverse and relied on the Sherman for reverse. It does make sense that it would reverse the PTO rotation since it replaces the input shaft and would reverse the input direction into the transmission. As far as the loader that would make more sense as it would be like a shuttle.

The Sherman auxiliary transmissions were originally aftermarket only, but by the time that the 4 cylinder 2000 and 4000 series had been released, they were also available from Ford as factory options. Neither installation, after-market or factory, ever deleted a reverse gear from the main 4 speed transmission as far as I am aware. They simply installed the Sherman in place of the input shaft and gear. The fact that the OP cannot get his main transmission shifted into reverse doesn't mean that it's not there, but if was never used then something may be out of place or stuck inside that is preventing it from shifting into reverse.