Pump pressure and GPM??

[old 851D]

I have a Wagner WF3 loader with the original pump that is worn out and must be replaced. Does anyone know what these pumps produced in pressure and GPM??

 

[Andy Wickiser]

I have a Wagner WF3 loader with the original pump that is worn out and must be replaced. Does anyone know what these pumps produced in pressure and GPM??

I couldn't find specs for WF3 pump but generally for a loader of that size and vintage approx 10-14 GPM, 2000 PSI. Below is link to a YT generic loader pump kit, a place to start getting ideas. Expensive so shop around.
YT loader pump kit

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

If your pump has a tag or stamped make and model number you can google it for specs.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I have a Wagner WF3 loader with the original pump that is worn out and must be replaced. Does anyone know what these pumps produced in pressure and GPM??

The pump determines flow but not pressure. Pressure is determined by the loader valve. Anything 10 GPM or larger should be adequate.

I would suggest something like this.Make sure you get a CCW pump.

1.52 cu in Dynamic GPF2025PA Hydraulic Pump | Gear Pumps | Hydraulic Pumps | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

1.52 cu in Dynamic GPF2025PA Hydraulic Pump, Gear Pumps, 1.52 cu in DYNAMIC GPF2025PA HYD PUMP, 1.52 cu in DYNAMIC GPF2025PA HYD PUMP Brand new,Dynamic,GP-F20-25-PA ,

www.surpluscenter.com

Dan

 

[TomIn]

I couldn't find specs for WF3 pump but generally for a loader of that size and vintage approx 10-14 GPM, 2000 PSI. Below is link to a YT generic loader pump kit, a place to start getting ideas. Expensive so shop around.
YT loader pump kit

I found an owners manual for your loader online that included a parts diagram and list of part numbers. It showed the pump as L

 

[TomIn]

I couldn't find specs for WF3 pump but generally for a loader of that size and vintage approx 10-14 GPM, 2000 PSI. Below is link to a YT generic loader pump kit, a place to start getting ideas. Expensive so shop around.
YT loader pump kit

I found a manual for your loader. It included a parts diagram and parts number list. The pump was L827-6. I couldn't find any information on this pump but multiple sites show the L827-10X pump as the current available model. Ads shows 14gpm at 2000 rpm. Prices seem to vary. You might be able to rebuild your worn out pump for less.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I found a manual for your loader. It included a parts diagram and parts number list. The pump was L827-6. I couldn't find any information on this pump but multiple sites show the L827-10X pump as the current available model. Ads shows 14gpm at 2000 rpm. Prices seem to vary. You might be able to rebuild your worn

Worn out gear pumps are not generally rebuildable. YT not withstanding you can buy a replacement pump for $170.

Dan

 

[Sean in PA]

The pump determines flow but not pressure. Pressure is determined by the loader valve. Anything 10 GPM or larger should be adequate.

I would suggest something like this.Make sure you get a CCW pump.

1.52 cu in Dynamic GPF2025PA Hydraulic Pump | Gear Pumps | Hydraulic Pumps | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

1.52 cu in Dynamic GPF2025PA Hydraulic Pump, Gear Pumps, 1.52 cu in DYNAMIC GPF2025PA HYD PUMP, 1.52 cu in DYNAMIC GPF2025PA HYD PUMP Brand new,Dynamic,GP-F20-25-PA ,

www.surpluscenter.com

Dan

But if the pump is not able to put out anywhere near the pressure that the relief valve in the loader control valve is set for, the loader might not be able to lift as much as it could. The pump should be rated for about 25% to 50% more than the flow rating of the loader control valve and at least a little bit more than the pressure that the relief valve in the loader control valve is rated for.

 

[TheOldHokie]

But if the pump is not able to put out anywhere near the pressure that the relief valve in the loader control valve is set for, the loader might not be able to lift as much as it could. The pump should be rated for about 25% to 50% more than the flow rating of the loader control valve and at least a little bit more than the pressure that the relief valve in the loader control valve is rated for.

The function of the loader relief valve is to limit the pressure the pump produces to a safe level. All of these aluminum gear pumps are capable of operating at 3000 PSI which is more pressure than any old Wagner loader needs.

The flow rate of the pump should be based on the size of the cylnders and the loader cycle time desired. First step is to calculate the total volume, in gallons, of the two lift cylinders. You know bore and stroke so its simple arithmetic.

Then to get GPM:

Multiply by 12 for a 5 second lift time
Multiply by 9 for a 7 second lift time
Multiply by 6 for a 10 second lift time
Etc....

Ideally you do not want to exceed the flow rating of the loader valve. You can cheat up on that a bit but exceeding the flow rating will be adding heat load to a system with a pretty small reservoir. Hopefully Wagner chose wisely but it is a 70 year old design..

Dan

 

[Sean in PA]

The function of the loader relief valve is to limit the pressure the pump produces to a safe level. All of these aluminum gear pumps are capable of operating at 3000 PSI which is more pressure than any old Wagner loader needs.

The flow rate of the pump should be based on the size of the cylnders and the loader cycle time desired. First step is to calculate the total volume, in gallons, of the two lift cylinders. You know bore and stroke so its simple arithmetic.

Then to get GPM:

Multiply by 12 for a 5 second lift time
Multiply by 9 for a 7 second lift time
Multiply by 6 for a 10 second lift time
Etc....

Ideally you do not want to exceed the flow rating of the loader valve. You can cheat up on that a bit but exceeding the flow rating will be adding heat load to a system with a pretty small reservoir. Hopefully Wagner chose wisely but it is a 70 year old design..

Dan

I was replying to your original statement, which was:

The pump determines flow but not pressure. Pressure is determined by the loader valve.

There are pumps out there that can only produce 1500 or 1800 psi, and so the maximum pressure the cylinders will ever see is whatever the pump can put out, not the maximum that the relief valve is set for, which would probably be 2000 or 2200 psi. At that point you will be dead heading the pump every time that you try to lift something that is too heavy. There are also loader valves that do not have a relief valve, and on those, the pump is expected to have its own relief valve or some other method of limiting the maximum pressure so as not to damage the pump itself.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I was replying to your original statement, which was:



There are pumps out there that can only produce 1500 or 1800 psi, and so the maximum pressure the cylinders will ever see is whatever the pump can put out, not the maximum that the relief valve is set for, which would probably be 2000 or 2200 psi. At that point you will be dead heading the pump every time that you try to lift something that is too heavy. There are also loader valves that do not have a relief valve, and on those, the pump is expected to have its own relief valve or some other method of limiting the maximum pressure so as not to damage the pump itself

My point being any of the commonly available SAE A and SAE B form factor gear pumps can operate at roughly 3000 PSI and some as higj as 4000 PSI. That is higher than the design operating pressure of any Wagner loader. The Wagner loader valve will limit the pressure to what it can handle and the variable you are concerned with when shopping for an OTS replacement pump is flow rate.

I think you will be hard pressed to find a modern gear pump in this size range that is maxed out at 1500 PSI.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

By the way all Wagner loader valves used with loader mounted pumps had an internal relief. AFAIK Wagner did not provide an operating pressure specification for the WM2/WM3/WF3 loaders. They did provide that info for the follow-on Pow'r Load'r lineup.

Pow'r Load'r Model Number	Operating Pressure
100, 110 120. 150	1750-1650
200	1950-1850

I think its safe to assume the operating pressure of the WF3 was no higher and possibly lower than the model 150.

Dan