recovering the check engine codes-oops

SDE

Well-known Member
I hauled a dead 05 Hyundai Tucson home last night. I unhooked the battery and charged it. I hauled it to town and checked for the codes, but unhooking the battery has dropped the codes from its memory. Can they be recovered?

It started to misfire while we were driving and we parked in a business driveway. It was idling on about 4 cylinders like it was running to rich and then it slowly died. It will not fire.

Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
TY
SDE
 
Might try pulling plugs out and compare to diagnostic photo of spark plug failure. Put a new set of plugs in it anyway to get it going . Going to need them anyway I fear. That way running it will result in new codes will get set all over.
Good scanner with history as mentioned is best option . You can rent one at auto parts , save you time and money in long run
 
OK, not having access to the vehicle and not knowing any more than what you have posted here, I will take a couple of guesses and make a couple of sugestions.

First thing is from the symptom you describe, I presume it is a 6-cylinder engine.

Second thing - from the description of the symptoms, I would suspect the timing belt may have slipped. To test for this, you can either do a compression test, or just listen as you crank the engine. If it sounds normal, like it has compression, the timing belt is probably OK. IF it has a chain instead of a belt, disregard. A chain CANNOT slip!

OK, next. Cam position sensor. The ECM times both the spark and the injectors off both the cam and crank position sensors. Failure of the crank position sensor ( a possibility) usually results in a no spark condition. Failure of the cam position sensor usually results in poor running, hard starting, and timing errors in general.

Next, WHY would you disconnect the battery to charge it? That makes no sense to me. If you want to preserve trouble codes and conditions at the time of failure, battery must stay connected. Disconnecting the battery ERASES trouble codes.

Replacing the spark plugs would be an exercise in futility. Have you or anybody else ever seen six plugs fail ALL AT THE SAME TIME?!!?!?!?! I sure haven't!

Last thing - sorry to say, but there is probably NOT any way to retreive codes that may have been in the system when it stopped. There is no long term non-volatile memory in most ECMs of that vintage. Sorry.
 
Thank you for your suggestions. I might head in to the parts store today and rent their fuel pressure gage kit. Maybe it is company policy, but everyone at O'REILLY'S pleads ignorance when you ask them how to use their $400 scan tool. I will call them and get the make and model number and see if I can find the instruction for using it. I will copy your other suggestions and try to check them out and off the list.
TY
SDE
 
Renting a fuel pressure tester would probably not be necessary to do a basic check.

Some tests:

Try spraying a bit of carb cleaner (NOT brake cleaner!) into the intake. If it tries to run, it would point to a fuel problem.

Turn on the ignition and listen for a noise coming from under the car. When you turn the key on, the fuel pump should run for about 3 seconds and turn off until you start cranking. Cycling the ignition switch will repeat the 3 second pump running. If you can't hear it, see if you can have a helper listen closer to the fuel tank.

You can also check for the presence of pressure at the test port that is probably on the fuel rail. Use a small tool to depress the schrader valve. Fuel pressure should be present - enough to spray out with everything off. If there is pressure there, and you release it, it shouls return when you cycle the ignition again.
 
Disconnecting the battery is only going to clear the check engine light your code should still be in there if you get a scanner on it youll be able to see them.
 

Mode 3 on a scanner will display history, history that can not be erased. The problem I think mode 3 started around 2010/2011. A parts store scanner is not gonna be of much/any help with "enhanced" ability : (

I posted this week of a $100 scanner that will. This scanner gets deep real deep deeper than most would ever need.

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1599277



https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/...ng-the-9-modes-of-global-obdii-in-diagnostics

So where do we go from here with so little info are knowledge.

1. Check for spark and injector pulse. If yes, see if it will start while adding supplemental fuel.

2. If it starts on supplemental fuel, check the fuel quality.

3. If there is no spark or injector pulse, scope the crank sensor.

4. If the crank sensor signal is good, check the timing belt alignment.
 
I have spark to a spark plug. I then stuck a needle into the reddish wire going to an injector. Ignition on, test light came on. Repeated with the other wire. Light came on also. I thought only one wire was going to have continuous power. Did
I do something wrong?

When I plugged the code reader in at OREILLYS I took a picture of the screen. There were three green ovals at the top of the screen. My understanding is that these are supposed to be systems that checked out in the good range. MIS, FUE, and CCM. The other systems evident needed a running engine in order to test them.

How do I add supplemental fuel?
TY
SDE
 

To answer part of your question, one side of injector is fed with battery power which will pass through the coil inside the injector and make the other terminal ''hot'', as well.

When fuel injection is desired the 'puter GROUNDS that terminal momentarily, activating the injector.
 
Before you start ripping out parts and spending wads of cash.

Open the hood and inspect the fuse box carefully. Pull the fuses and relays. Check for corroded connections and broken wires. Clean them all and apply a small dab of dielectric grease to them.

Think about it. Why spend 2 or 3 hundred on a fuel pump if the relay or fuses are not getting a good connection?

Common problem on Hyundai cars.
 
Spraying brake clean into an engine produces phosgene gas which is quite toxic. I strongly recommend using
something else - like carb cleaner or gasoline. Especially if doing this indoors.
 
the cloronated brake clean is now harder to get if not totally removed from the market because of failure to follow directions and killing too many people. But folks need to be aware of which formula you have. The original if burnt, became very very very very very deadly. 3 parts per million was enough to get you. Destroys the nerve system in a blink of an eye. Phosphine gas is not your friend. The few that survive have permanent damage and paralysis with brain damage.

Choosing a traditional brake cleaner poses a rather unsatisfactory question. Do you choose the flammable highly toxic one, or the alarmingly very highly toxic one? Its not such a nice question to consider and, of course, there is no good answer or is there?

This article examines the conundrum facing buyers and users of brake cleaner. It also looks at some alternatives that rewrite the impossible question of deadly or deadlier.
Chlorinated vs Non-Chlorinated Brake Cleaner

Standard brake cleaners can be divided into two main categories Chlorinated and Non-Chlorinated. Each type has its own positives but in each case these positives are far outweighed by the negatives. All this makes arriving at a rational choice between the two a wicked problem.
Chlorinated Brake Cleaner

PERCChlorinated brake cleaner has been around for the longest and still exists today even though its main ingredients have been banned in other applications. The term Chlorinated refers to the presence of Chlorine atoms in certain places within the molecular structure. These chlorine atoms help power the chemicals solvent properties.

Tetrachloroethylene

Tetrachloroethylene (also called perchloroethylene or PERC) is an industrial solvent used for degreasing. Tetrachloroethylene is high performing, non-flammable and fast drying (through evaporation) which are all properties sought after in a brake cleaner.

Tetrachloroethylene is also highly toxic. It is a Group 2A carcinogen, which means that it is probably carcinogenic to humans and also a central nervous system depressant which can enter the body through respiratory or dermal exposure. It is also probably linked to Parkinsons Disease.

At high temperatures (such as sparks) Tetrachloroethylene turns into extremely deadly Phosgene gas, which is a chemical weapon that kills in very low concentrations.

Methylene Chloride

Methylene Chloride (also called Dichloromethane) is often included along with Tetrachloroethylene to add additional properties to the mixture.

Symptoms of acute overexposure to Methylene Chloride via inhalation include difficulty concentrating, dizziness, fatigue, nausea, headaches, numbness, weakness, and irritation of the upper respiratory tract and eyes. More severe consequences can include suffocation, loss of consciousness, coma, and death.

Methylene Chloride may also be carcinogenic, as it has been linked to cancer of the lungs, liver, and pancreas in laboratory animals. In people with pre-existing heart problems, exposure to Methylene Chloride can cause abnormal heart rhythms and/or heart attacks, sometimes without any other symptoms of overexposure.
Non-Chlorinated Brake Cleaner

By definition, Non-Chlorinated brake cleaner is simply any brake cleaner that doesnt contain chlorinated solvents. This distinction, however, does not make it safe and many of the chemicals used in these products are just as problematic.

n-HexaneHeptane

Heptane is sometimes used in brake cleaner. This chemical is distilled from oil and is highly flammable. Its also toxic. Acute exposure to heptane vapors can cause dizziness, stupor, incoordination, loss of appetite, nausea, dermatitis, chemical pneumonitis, or unconsciousness. Its is also very toxic to aquatic life with long-lasting effects.

The only upside to Heptane is that it has not yet been linked to cancer in lab animals or humans.

n-Hexane

n-Hexane is probably the most common ingredient and another example of a crude oil-derived product. N-Hexane is even more flammable than Heptane and tends to linger in workspaces creating potentially explosive vapour mixtures.

n-Hexanes greatest problem, however, is its neurotoxicity. Workplace exposure has been shown to cause nerve damage in humans. It is particularly common in vehicle mechanics. Long term exposure to the chemical can lead to permanent numbness, tingling, weakness and reduced sensitivity.
So, Whats the Answer?

The choice between Non-Chlorinated and Chlorinated brake cleaner seems, at first, like a choice between bad and worse. The truth, however, is that this is a false dilemma.

Whilst the aforementioned chemicals are, by far, the most common ingredients in any brake cleaner youre likely to find on the shelf, they are not your only options.

Low toxicity brake cleaners are available on the market today. Finding them in the shops or in your average supply catalogue can be difficult, however, so you need to do your research. What you may find interesting is that these low toxicity products actually outperform traditional toxic brake cleaners.
 
I finally broke down and ordered this .
mvphoto100516.jpg


This post was edited by buickanddeere on 12/18/2022 at 08:05 pm.
 
I went on flea bay and ordered it for 53. Only because their site wanted me to do go to another place I did not want to go. I told her last night that I should have put one on my list or at least on hers. My daughter didn't know what to get her and this would have been a help to all of us.
TY
SDE
 
(quoted from post at 21:27:34 12/19/22) I went on flea bay and ordered it for 53. Only because their site wanted me to do go to another place I did not want to go. I told her last night that I should have put one on my list or at least on hers. My daughter didn't know what to get her and this would have been a help to all of us.
TY
SDE

Cool, its my understanding to get the enhanced function of the tool it cost extra $50 so that makes it $100. I spec that option will be available to download with the tool. I don't need one I am going to get one when my Amazon points build up a bit more.

I don't have are need the euro side of the tool that's the selling point for me at least I will have it if needed plus free updates : ) I hope Dorman makes the podcast avail it will open folks eyes on the ability of a decent enhanced scan tool.

Another Youtube it still does not show all this tool can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4Voi9WrRTM

A few points of interest. @9:40 you will see 245 in the top corner that's how many pids it can read. 245 pids slow down any scan tool as a rule we narrow it down to 6 no more that are associated with the issue on hand. This speeds the data up nice in real time.

@ 10:45 A pid lets take Barometric pressure off to the right it reads 95-165 if the data were out of that range it will flag it in RED that's a nice function for a DIY.
 
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