Reference: M Water Pump Breakdown/Rebuild

[Ken Christopherson]

Hello fellas,

While doing some investigation online to see what I might be spending on parts to rebuild my water pump on my M, I found that a YT competitor (Bates) sells the seals, felt washers, packing, and bearing retainer gasket. They do not list the bearings, however. I also found a forum posting on another site that gives a detailed description of a water pump rebuild (link below). I'm still undecided as to whether I am going to replace the pump assembly, or rebuild. I was able to find a complete pump online for about $30 more than just the seals, gasket and packing will run me (not including the (2) required bearings). It may be more cost effective to just replace the entire assembly.

Either way, I thought that sharing this site with you would help those who may want to tackle a rebuild of their pump.
M Water Pump Rebuild Instructions

 

[John M]

Unfortunately, YT will not allow the link, but I know exactly where it come from. Badjo did a very good job of explaining what all he did to that pump. Im also surprised that info is still out there, as all of that was supposedly lost when the site was hacked a few years ago. I am, I guess, a moderator over there, but I cant even stay logged in since the newest owners took over, so I no longer post over there.(I really dont know why YT would not allow a link to that site. They in no way compete with YT)

 

[EZ]

Not sure how similar your pump is to the pump on my 130, but I went down the road to try to rebuild, but found it too much of a hassle. i.e. I was shipped some bad parts from CaseIH. I ended up just buying the aftermarket pump from CaseIH at a discount, but basically the same price as the kit. The aftermarket was well built from Turkey, except they got the belt clearance angle wrong on the inlet tube and I had to use the die grinder to take some material off so that the fan belt did not come in contact with the inlet tube. Some say that they have had success, others have failed. At least there should be no leaks on a new part.

 

[Ken Christopherson]

I knew they wouldn't allow links to possible parts, etc. competitors... But this is just good useful information. I suppose a guy could save all the photos and descriptions and repost them here (giving full credit to Badjo). Maybe if I feel ambitious I'll do that. I'm still leaning on replacing the entire pump. It just doesn't seem cost effective to rebuild it.

 

[mbfarmall450]

I would not replace, rebuild what you have. New one I had bought years ago leaked as soon as I ran the tractor the packing they use is junk also all the parts in inside seals and bearings are all metric. Would never buy one again.

 

[John M]

Whats even funnier, over there, if that article had been here on YT, we could have linked to it. I sure do miss not being able to visit the site, great bunch of folks over there.

 

[farmer_nk]

Ken
Your in the stage of the rebuild I really enjoy. Anybody can go to the IH dealership and order replacement parts. I find enjoyment in tracking down the NLA, grossly overpriced items, or making my own. Small simple gaskets are one area where I usually make my own.

I couple references I use frequently: (you may already be aware of)
1. All the IH parts manuals are available online, which can be individually downloaded or printed. Great product to use during assembly. It gives each bolt measurement to use for each part.
http://partstore.caseih.com/us/parts-search.html

2.Timken and SKF have cross reference and interchange for bearings and seals that cross the original IHC part numbers. Google (SKF seal interchange) and a pdf of the interchange guides should come up. Same for bearings. Once you get the cross referenced number, Google search the part number or take it to your local bearing warehouse.

3.SKF has a site to lookup the makeup of the seals. The original seals IHC used were a leather single lip style seals. Todays seal of the nitrile type and can be had in single lip of multiple lip seals. Style CRW1 is a single lip and CRWA1 is a dual lip, one lip protecting dirt from entering and one from oil leaking out. http://www2.chicago-rawhide.com/popup_parts_lookup_457010.htm

Now for the waterpump.
1. There are two bearings, both are IHC # ST205A crosses to 207 or 6207J about $10-15 each on ebay
2. one seal is IHC # 20290D crosses to 18733 (CRW1). I would use 18734 (CRWA1) about $12 on ebay
3. other seal is IHC # 20289D crosses to 16314(CRW1). I would use 16315 (CRWA1) about $12 on ebay
4. seal packing from a local hardware store, commonly called faucet stem packing about $3
5. I don't see a need for the inner felt with the dual lip seal.
6. make the gasket.
So for about $60 you have the waterpump rebuilt.

 

[Ken Christopherson]

WOW,

This is INCREDIBLY helpful! Thank you for listing the part numbers and the websites. I think I have the Timken or SKF bearing site bookmarked already (but I'm going to make darn sure).
(#1, 2, 3): I've already added all of the bearings and seals to my cart on eBay..
(#4): I did find some 1/8" x 24" ptfe faucet stem packing as well (would this suffice?) OR there is some graphite packing that I also found.
(#5): I think I will take your recommended advice on the felt and disregard.
(#6): Are you talking the gasket that goes between the pump and the block? If so I already have this in my complete engine gasket kit - no need to make another.

Having a little trouble figuring out the parts search section of the Case/IH site. I can't seem (for the life of me) to find a Model M tractor in their database.

 

[Ken Christopherson]

I think I know which gasket you are referring to - #18 of the diagram. "Water Pump Bearing Retainer Gasket" #21839DB. Easy enough to make from gasket material.

 

[farmer_nk]

Search for MD or MV, if you search for M it comes up that it needs 3 letters. In the MD or MV you'll see it has the carbureted engine within it.

The gasket I mention is the water pump bearing retainer gasket 21839DB.

 

[Ken Christopherson]

I was able to get it figured out. I started a search for "super M", and kind of worked my way backwards figuring out the path.

When you made the gasket, what thickness of gasket material did you use? I have found 1/8", 1/16", 1/32", and 1/64" fiber gasket material. I would assume it is of thinner material (not the 1/8").

I sure appreciate all of the help on this! (Don't worry, I plan on making Episode 9 my "water pump rebuild" episode).

 

[farmer_nk]

I measured an old gasket I had and it is 1/64 inch thick. Check your gasket set for one as I just noticed I had one in mine.

I used graphite packing as that's what the hardware store had.
What I researched on the ptfe verses graphite packing is: ptfe is more for chemical resistance. It's downfalls are it tends to become a solid mass and allow cold flow or creep under pressure. It also does not disipate heat well, so not good in a high speed rotating assembly.

Note on the water pump is that seal orientation is critical. The spring side of both lip seals should be forward.

 

[Ken Christopherson]

Sounds good. I sure appreciate the descriptive information! I've got the seals, bearings, packing, and gasket material on order. Does not hurt to have it on hand. I will break open my gasket kit, though, to see if I have got one in there.

Thanks again, and stay tuned for a rebuild post and video!