Repulsion Induction Motor

[SleepyFarmall]

I have this motor on my table saw and am curious as to what Reduction Induction is. Can someone explain it for a dummy?
1ph-110/220v-half hp.

Secondly, I have limited electric capacity at the barn. Would it be advantageous to run it on 220 instead of 110.

Thirdly, if I configure it for 220, how to I determine color codes for the four wires to configure them for that when I can't see the colors anymore because they are old and cloth insulation.

Thanks for your helpful advise. Michael

 

[JMOR]

I have this motor on my table saw and am curious as to what Reduction Induction is. Can someone explain it for a dummy?
1ph-110/220v-half hp.

Secondly, I have limited electric capacity at the barn. Would it be advantageous to run it on 220 instead of 110.

Thirdly, if I configure it for 220, how to I determine color codes for the four wires to configure them for that when I can't see the colors anymore because they are old and cloth insulation.

Thanks for your helpful advise. Michael

Repulsion, not 'reduction'. It is a starting method. Repulsion start, induction run.

 

[caterpillar guy]

I just last summer got done with cleaning one out inside and getting some of the crude out from around the case. I also replaced the wires from inside due to the insulation being shot where it went through the hole in the case. Mine had little metal tags wrapped around the wires with numbers on them . I just used the numbers to connect it up. Don't remember which was which. It is on a 2 stage Devilbus air compressor now running on 220. The big thing is if the necklace and internal parts being good or in need of repair. Contact Antique Electric Motor Experts on facebook. You will have to ask to join the group . They have done some really fantastic things for restoration of some old electric motors including removing the windings and reshellacing them.

 

[John T]

Its been over 50 years since I was an EE with the Century Electric Motor Company so NO Warranty (some gents might Google it then answer), but if I recall correctly a repulsion start induction run motor used brushes and a commutator to start the motor (higher starting torque) then at x RPM they lifted away and the motor operated as an induction motor IE after start up induction only no brushes and commutator. The repulsion start using brushes gave more starting torque to start a motor under a load versus if it were a split phase with a start winding.

YES if you operate at twice the voltage current is only one half I suggest using 240

See if others or Google say different ??

John T

 

[Watthour]

True power will be the same at either voltage. If the service is 240V 1 phase at some specified current, the switchgear and conductors for a 240V motor will be less stressed than at 120V. Of course, receptacles for 240V must be installed, and could limit where the saw can be used.

In order to advise the color-coded connections for different voltages, it will be important to know the motor manufacturer and mode. Color codes are similar, but not universally applicable.

If you have the connection diagram but cannot determine the colors of the cloth insulation, it may help to wet the cloth to bring the color back temporarily. Of course, you'll want to be sure the insulation is completely dry before applying power.

 

[kencombs]

Its been over 50 years since I was an EE with the Century Electric Motor Company so NO Warranty (some gents might Google it then answer), but if I recall correctly a repulsion start induction run motor used brushes and a commutator to start the motor (higher starting torque) then at x RPM they lifted away and the motor operated as an induction motor IE after start up induction only no brushes and commutator. The repulsion start using brushes gave more starting torque to start a motor under a load versus if it were a split phase with a start winding.

YES if you operate at twice the voltage current is only one half I suggest using 240

See if others or Google say different ??

John T

I have one of that type on an old Unisaw. Supposed to be 1hp. But identifies as a 2hp or better as judged by ripping a lot of walnut, oak and even old grown long leaf pine. Before I used this old saw much I found a 3 hp version and bought it. Never installed as the smaller one works ok for me. Now I have a much sought-after Delta 3hp ‘bullet. Motor’ that I really should sell.

 

[paul]

Its been over 50 years since I was an EE with the Century Electric Motor Company so NO Warranty (some gents might Google it then answer), but if I recall correctly a repulsion start induction run motor used brushes and a commutator to start the motor (higher starting torque) then at x RPM they lifted away and the motor operated as an induction motor IE after start up induction only no brushes and commutator. The repulsion start using brushes gave more starting torque to start a motor under a load versus if it were a split phase with a start winding.

YES if you operate at twice the voltage current is only one half I suggest using 240

See if others or Google say different ??

John T

We had one on a belt conveyor in the corn crib. Can’t remember if a 2 or 3 horse rated. It is as John says.

It was fun to see and hear the brushes click out after starting. Was a different startup sound too.

I believe they cost more to make, so faded away many decades ago.

Ours gave up in the 1990s and the electric motor repair place wanted nothing to do with it, total scrap in their opinion no fixing. We were wired with 7-800 feet of #8 copper wire to that building so it was an issue trying to replace it. Modern motor designs with enough start torque for the big flat belt needed much more wire capacity legally.

Their advantage is they do not use the huge inrush of current to start as modern electric motors use and have more starting torque so a smaller rated motor on smaller wires can run items that need a lot of oomph to get going. Once running at speed they will pull about the same power as any other electric motor. But getting a tough pull started is where they had a big advantage.

Perhaps my words/ terms are not perfectly applied and someone can correct me, I hope my meaning can come through.

Paul

 

[John T]

True power will be the same at either voltage. If the service is 240V 1 phase at some specified current, the switchgear and conductors for a 240V motor will be less stressed than at 120V. Of course, receptacles for 240V must be installed, and could limit where the saw can be used.

In order to advise the color-coded connections for different voltages, it will be important to know the motor manufacturer and mode. Color codes are similar, but not universally applicable.

If you have the connection diagram but cannot determine the colors of the cloth insulation, it may help to wet the cloth to bring the color back temporarily. Of course, you'll want to be sure the insulation is completely dry before applying power.

True power will be the same at either voltage.

EXACTLY as Power in Watts = V x I, if the Voltage Doubles while the current goes to half SAME POWER. If the wires were the same size half the current would result in less Line Voltage Drop...We preferred 240 over 120 Volt motors where possible while Three Phase was much more preferred.

Nice sparky chatting with you, take care

John T

 

[zuhnc]

I have a repulsion motor, electrically reversible, on my 1932 South Bend Lathe. Motor made by Westinghouse. Brushes continually ride on the commutator; no brush lifting or shorting necklace. No data available, even from what now passes as Westinghouse, as I had to rewind it.

No motor shop would touch it, either; they didn't know what it was. The Antique Motor Forum on Facebook was beyond no help with this motor; they insisted it was three-phase, even though I posted the data tag, which clearly showed it was single phase. Very quiet and starts immediately. The Facebook group seems to concentrate mainly on antique fans and their motors, with an occasional industrial motor thrown in.

240V would be better than 120V; wire size is smaller, current when running is less. Good luck with lead identification. zuhnc

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Repulsion, not 'reduction'. It is a starting method. Repulsion start, induction run.

Jessie,
I have a very old Repulsion start, induction run motor on an old air compressor with a bad tank.
I can't see using a Repulsion start, induction run on a saw. Saw dust can screw up the mechanism that lifts the brushes.
I would look for metal tags on the wires and the wiring diagram in the metal plate that covers the place where power wires are connected to the motor.
I'm guessing the repulsion start motor has a lot of starting torque and was around before capacitor start motors.

 

[miangus]

Its been over 50 years since I was an EE with the Century Electric Motor Company so NO Warranty (some gents might Google it then answer), but if I recall correctly a repulsion start induction run motor used brushes and a commutator to start the motor (higher starting torque) then at x RPM they lifted away and the motor operated as an induction motor IE after start up induction only no brushes and commutator. The repulsion start using brushes gave more starting torque to start a motor under a load versus if it were a split phase with a start winding.

YES if you operate at twice the voltage current is only one half I suggest using 240

See if others or Google say different ??

John T

When I worked for the silo company, we used to like to install an old Wagner with repulsion start to get a stalled Harveststore unloader going. I still have a 5 horse on my air compressor. They draw a lot of amperage in a hard start.

 

[JMOR]

Hear one start:

https://imgur.com/fsXNjsu