roofing

[old-9]

I need to re roof a small yard barn, ten by ten. Each side (of roof) is about 10 by 10. times 2 plus 10 foot of ridge. The lady at lumber yard was no help and the guy that did know was gone.
So how many bundles of three tab makes a square? And how many to do the cap?
thanks joe

 

[old]

Well unless it has changed since I did roofing for a living it should be 3 bundles per square

 

[Stephen Newell]

There are three bundles to a square. If you use the three tab shingles upside down for a starter strip it should take four bundles with about 13 shingles left over by the time you cut up shingles for a ridge cap.

Even though you can put a second layer of shingles over an existing roof I would tear the old ones off and put felt paper up first. Shingles are heavy and a second layer adds unnecessary weight to the roof.

 

[old-9]

Stephen , I think you miss read , it is 10 by 10 each side so 10 by 20 total. So with a 10 ft ridge cap 8 bundles? or 9 to be safe?
The lady helping me said "20" bundles and 2 rolls of felt.
I thought that was over kill. thanks, joe

 

[ddbar3]

Ok, year's of experience here. Skip the shingles, put down Ice and water shield. Leave it at that. It's a yard barn. Will last as long as shingles.

 

[old]

In theory it should take 3 bundles for each side then one for the ridge cap so 7 should do it but yes 8 to be 100% sure and also to cover any mistakes. I have not done roofing for a living since back in 1995 but got pretty good at it till my back stopped me from doing it any more

 

[MarkB_MI]

General rule of thumb: Take the actual square feet and add ten percent. Divide by 100 to get the number of squares. Then multiply by three to get the number of bundles. That will usually be very close, including the ridge. You can always go back and pick up an extra bundle, unless of course you went with a special order.

Anymore, I won't use three tab unless I'm matching existing shingles. Metric-size architectural shingles go on faster, last longer and look better than three tab. And the price difference isn't that much these days. You'll still need a bundle of three-tab for the ridge; they also make rather expensive "ridge shingles" that are pre-cut and look a little better than three-tab, overkill for a shed.

I suggest you pick up a roll of "starter strip" rather than using three-tabs for the starter row. Cutting the tabs off three-tab shingles is a pain, and using upside-down three-tabs for a starter is a very bad practice.

 

[Mark - IN.]

I'm seeing more and more people going to steel roofs. I redid the roof on my house probably about five or so years ago and went 30 year shingles. If I had to do it all over again, I'd have gone steel like on my barns. I used to have a house when I lived in Illinois that had a quality, thick galvanized steel roof on it, the same one that was put on it when it was built in the 1950's. I sold that house in 2004 and it had the same roof on it, no leaks, still in great shape. The painted thinner stuff that Menards and Lowes and Home Depot sell isn't as good quality, but I'm pretty sure that if maintained it will outlast shingles easily. Last sheets I bought went for something like $60 a sheet of 10'x3' I think it was. Couple of boxes of rubber grommet screws, put down a good barrier between the steel and the wood and I think you'll be better off. It's a little thick to cut but with a pair of steel sheers, not hand but electric, cuts pretty easy. Sheers are cheap at Menards.

Up to you. Any roof I do in the future, steel from experience. No more shingles.

Good luck.

Mark

 

[Stephen Newell]

Your right. Dang allergies, my eyes are glazed over and hard to read the computer. It would take 6 bundles to do both sides and 8 shingles to do the starter strips and 8 shingles to do the ridge cap so I get 7 bundles with about 13 shingles left over. There are 29 shingles per bundle.

 

[Frank(Mi.)]

Hmmmm' I have always been told to cover the Grace Ice and Water Sheild up within a few months to prevent UV rays from breaking it down....never have tried leaving any exposed to find out though.

 

[Goose]

I'd go with steel.

In fact, I have the frame from a 12'X20' temporary garage that I got tired of replacing the fabric on. Last summer, I bought a pile of steel on an auction that should be more than sufficient. I'll put wood furring strips on the steel frame and screw the steel on.

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Mark,

Why is using upside down three tab shingles for a starter a very bad practice? I know that there are some weather conditions that are relatively common in other parts of the country that we never experience in this region, but maybe there's another reason that I'm not aware of? I can't remember ever seeing the drip edge be a problem around here, and I can't remember ever taking off a three tab roof that hadn't used upside down shingles as a starter course.

Stan

 

[old-9]

Mark, it is a gambrel roof so metal too big of a deal. And as I am up there in age will be the last roof for me. The biggest reason is the wife. joe

 

[MarkB_MI]

> Why is using upside down three tab shingles for a starter a very bad practice?

You'll notice that shingle manufacturers do not recommend starting with upside-down shingles, but instead say you should cut the tabs off the shingles and install them right-side up. And of course that's a pain to do.

There are two problems with the upside-down shingles. First, the glue strip is not located at the bottom edge, so there's nothing to hold down the tabs of the next row. (That's not such a problem with architectural shingles, since they have the glue strip on the underside of the shingle.) The other problem is that it makes an uneven surface, since you have two full shingles stacked on top of each other instead being overlapped. The effect is real obvious when somebody puts a second layer on the roof and repeats the practice.

You're right that almost every roofer uses the upside-down starter method. But roofers love to cut corners and ignore manufacturer's recommendations.

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Thanks. Good explanation.

 

[Mark - IN.]

Yep, I understand.

Back in the 1970's I used to build boats and was thinking one time why not tear off the old shingles, replace whatever sheets of plywood and then layout the fiberglass webbing and then glass it? Other than fire, fiberglass lasts forever. So I figured, one piece fiberglass roof will either last a hundred billion gazillion years with no leaks or else one real strong wind will rip it off and land it about six counties over. Never know, it might work. One of my high school buddies moved down to Texas after we graduated and he started a construction company. The head of the Coke bottlers down there asked for bids to put a copper roof on his mansion and no one bid but my buddy. He had never done a copper roof before and won the bid. Turned out that he way underbid the job and had to put his trucks and equipment in hock and everything. He sat down with the customer, a businessman and they went over it and the customer was fair about it and gave him what he needed to do the job, and the job completed. My buddy didn't make any money on the job, but he didn't lose any either. What he got out of it was advertisement and ended up getting several copper roof jobs that he priced out correctly and made some serious $$$ on them.

Maybe I should give one piece laid-up fiberglass roofing a whirl. Never get rich working for anyone else, so they say.

Mark

 

[JF in MI]

When I was putting a steel roof on my machine shop I found out there are 2 types of steel roofing/siding; Residential grade and Industrial grade. The Industrial grade is substantially thicker. I went to a steel building manufacturer and was able to get the Industrial stuff. I needed a run of 33' and they had a supply of 35' sections that they picked up wrong and bent in the middle. I bought some for around 50 cents on the dollar and cut out the center bent section and put it up in two lengths. Turned out to be a lot easier to handle that way also.

 

[El Hombre]

(quoted from post at 17:52:59 10/01/17) > Why is using upside down three tab shingles for a starter a very bad practice?

You'll notice that shingle manufacturers do not recommend starting with upside-down shingles, but instead say you should cut the tabs off the shingles and install them right-side up. And of course that's a pain to do.

There are two problems with the upside-down shingles. First, the glue strip is not located at the bottom edge, so there's nothing to hold down the tabs of the next row. (That's not such a problem with architectural shingles, since they have the glue strip on the underside of the shingle.) The other problem is that it makes an uneven surface, since you have two full shingles stacked on top of each other instead being overlapped. The effect is real obvious when somebody puts a second layer on the roof and repeats the practice.

You're right that almost every roofer uses the upside-down starter method. [b:d2c6e07f6f] But roofers love to cut corners and ignore manufacturer's recommendations.[/b:d2c6e07f6f]

Ain't that the truth! I used Celotex Presidential architectural shingles on my house. Instead of instructions on the bag, they supply a 4 page instruction manual.

In order to get a truly random look, you cut 5", 9". 14" and 19" off the left end of some shingles and start the first row with the 5", next row with the 9" and so on up the roof. Place we bought them from directed us to a house being roofed; pro roofers, not following the instructions, weren't cutting the short starter shingles and when you looked up the roof on a 45 degree angle, you could see a stairstep pattern going up. Supposed to be random.

If the homeowner ever had problems, the factory guy would come out, see they hadn't been installed correctly and deny any warranty.

But we did pick up one tip from them, they were using 2" foam pads about 3' square to sit on. My roof is 8 in 12 pitch, so I had the roofing jacks and 2x6's to keep everything on the roof, but the foam made all the difference in comfort. Didn't tear up my jeans on the roof and wasn't sitting on hot shingles, so we didn't smear anything.

I was talking to another pro roofer and mentioned the Presidential shingles, he rolled his eyes and said while that was probably the best looking shingle, there was no way his crews could install them as fast as lesser shingles.

He had just done a 3 million square foot job on a condo complex in San Jose, and they had to hire extra flunkies just to distribute the shingles on the roof and then pre-position them for the guy with the nailing gun. Took two guys to do the same output as one on 3 tab.

 

[old-9]

Hey ! THANKS All of you for the replies. I still have to wait for the frost to kill the flowers before I can tear off and shingle the building. Going to get material ordered next week. joe

 

[Stephen Newell]

It's a bad idea because the roofing company can't sell a bundle of starter strip shingles if you use upside down shingles.

 

[WGM]

There is only one warranty that comes with today's metal roofs especially a screw down roof. They all leak! And if they don't leak now, they will. For you all who have metal roofs and think you have a manufacturer's warranty against leakage, you had better check that warranty. It's only for paint fade. And don't look for your contractor. He's probably long gone out of business.

 

[casenut1]

Some of the new style shingles are 4 bundles to the square. It is done to lesson the weight per bundle for handling.

 

[Ozlander]

(quoted from post at 19:17:57 10/01/17) There is only one warranty that comes with today's metal roofs especially a screw down roof. They all leak! And if they don't leak now, they will. For you all who have metal roofs and think you have a manufacturer's warranty against leakage, you had better check that warranty. It's only for paint fade. And don't look for your contractor. He's probably long gone out of business.

Gee, I put up my 30 x 50 metal building with a metal roof in '75.
How long do I need to wait for it to start leaking.

 

[Bret4207]

I have never seen a properly installed metal roof leak. I've seen poorly installed roofs put down by idiots that leaked, and I've seen metal roofs put on almost flat roofs that leaked, but never anything properly applied.

I put 30 year architectural shingles on our home a few years back at SWMBOs insistence. Next time, and from the look it will be less than 30 years, I'm going with steel!

 

[ddbar3]

Never heard of that one, just buy the good stuff that look's like rolled roofing and your good to go.

 

[dhermesc]

Exactly. The last thing you need is for a roof to start peeling up from the bottom - in a bad storm its a good way to lose the entire roof. Having the glue strip close to the bottom edge is important.

 

[Dusty MI]

(quoted from post at 17:17:57 10/01/17) There is only one warranty that comes with today's metal roofs especially a screw down roof. They all leak! And if they don't leak now, they will. For you all who have metal roofs and think you have a manufacturer's warranty against leakage, you had better check that warranty. It's only for paint fade. And don't look for your contractor. He's probably long gone out of business.

I had a Morton pole barn/shop built in 1983 with a steel roof, we moved out in 2012 and it had not leaked in all those years, and was not leaking when we sold the place a year ago.

Dusty

 

[Paul in MN]

I recently did a similar small shed at my place with cheap 3 tab shingles. There are many options now available in shingles. The 3 tab 20 year warranted are now the cheapest at about $50/square. They need to be staggered by 1/2 tab which might be 6" (if English dimension shingle). Whatever metric or English, they have a slight cut along the top edge of where the half tab is. No measurement needed. I always flip them over and cut from the backside with a carpenter square and razor knife. For starter strip, you can use the same shingle or a roll of special starter (faster and better, but adds some cost). For the cap layer, you cut the 3 tabs into individual tabs, fold gently over the top, and 2 nails, then advance the next one by 5". Set a string to get a straight line, otherwise it is too easy to drift off from being straight.

If you use the more modern random pattern shingle, you'll need to buy their special cap shingles. The more modern random pattern shingles are usually rated for higher wind speeds, but they do cost more, and have a 30 year warrantee. On my small shed I didn't care about wind or warrantee. I won't live long enough for it to make any difference.

For the size of your job, 7 bundles of 3 tab should take care of shingles and cap, but I'd get 8 bundles so you are sure to not run out. Return the extra one if you're lucky.

Good Luck with your project.


Paul in MN

 

[Gary Mitchell]

You got it Old. It's always been 3 bdl to a square. He might as well get that 7th bdl cause there never seems to be quite enough trim pieces for the edges to make a full ridge cap, although on just 10' it might come close. gm

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 12:41:20 10/01/17) When I was putting a steel roof on my machine shop I found out there are 2 types of steel roofing/siding; Residential grade and Industrial grade. The Industrial grade is substantially thicker. I went to a steel building manufacturer and was able to get the Industrial stuff. I needed a run of 33' and they had a supply of 35' sections that they picked up wrong and bent in the middle. I bought some for around 50 cents on the dollar and cut out the center bent section and put it up in two lengths. Turned out to be a lot easier to handle that way also.

There are two kinds of steel roofs: Standing seam and everything else.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I just roofed a 12x12 wood shed that I built. I used archetechtural shingles that match the house. There for 4 bundles per square and the roof was a shade under 200 sq ft, i.e. 2 squares. I used 30 pound felt for the underlayment. If course there a lot of cutting to offset the shingles and to fit the rest on the roof so there is some waste but I had some spare shingles from the house that I used to finish up. I also had to buy some starter course. I could have used shingles and just turned then around so the slots were underneath the first course but I elected to use regular starter course. I also had some ridge cap left over from the house so I used that.

The installation instructions are usually printed on the bundle and the ridge cap instructions are also printed on the bundle. Look at the bundle and it will tell you how much ridge it will cover. Since I am getting a bit long in the tooth, I bought a roofing nailer at Harbor Freight with a 20% off coupon and some nails from Home Depot. I am glad I did. It made the job even easier. The nailer never missed a nail and all the nails what were loaded were driven. I"d also buy some knee pads.

Based o your numbers you"ll need a minimum of 2 squares but if you used reversed shingles for starter course you"ll need to buy an extra bundle. Depending on how much exposure you use you may need to get some extra shingles to cut for the ridge cap. I"d buy a couple of extra bundles and if you don"t have to open one you can take it back.