Roundup/2-4-D

[rrman61]

Does mixing roundup and 2-4-D actually work against each other or diminish either chemicals efficiently?alternative that kills both weeds and brush/small trees?

 

[MARK ROBKE]

Does mixing roundup and 2-4-D actually work against each other or diminish either chemicals efficiently?alternative that kills both weeds and brush/small trees?

I never mix, but I do sometimes use a surfactant if the label says to. Roundup is non-selective: it kills everything-grass or weeds, but not brush. 2 4 D is used on broadleaf plants-young weeds usually. To kill brush/small trees/briars-Crossbow is a product that I commonly use. Once an undesired species is mature and making seed heads, it is hard to kill. Early spraying is more effective. Mark.

 

[rrman61]

I never mix, but I do sometimes use a surfactant if the label says to. Roundup is non-selective: it kills everything-grass or weeds, but not brush. 2 4 D is used on broadleaf plants-young weeds usually. To kill brush/small trees/briars-Crossbow is a product that I commonly use. Once an undesired species is mature and making seed heads, it is hard to kill. Early spraying is more effective. Mark.

Does crossbow tend to drift like 2-4-D does?

 

[MARK ROBKE]

I don't think so. Mark.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Enlist duo is those good old two products in a slightly different form from your good friends at Corteva. Soybean label only I believe.

If you want the grass gone too a clethmodium product is the ticket it’s the volunteer corn killer (corn is a grass) it is a contact herbicide it almost always works I’ve seen it put on 30 seconds before a rain

If you want the grass. Crossbow like someone said.

Stinger plus 24d would also get rid of some of the rough weeds if you add it to the 24d that was a mix we used on CRP. I’m not sure on an actual tree but woody scrub it seems to work.

I would not use 24d by itself or mixed with roundup it’s a nice thought but the two products have been used for 60 years if you want a list of what’s not effective as a herbicide the two of them are starting to get to the top of the list

 

[Butch(OH)]

No, they do not cancel each other. Around these parts we have both round up resistant ragweed and mares tail which round up will not kill. In non crop areas where bare ground is wanted we mix 4 Oz of generic round up and 2 oz of 24D LV per gallon of water for spot spray. It's relatively cheap and will kill everything , just be sure you use the LV version of 24D for drift control. You do need to rinse the sprayer when done because the mixture will clot if left to sit.

 

[rrman61]

No, they do not cancel each other. Around these parts we have both round up resistant ragweed and mares tail which round up will not kill. In non crop areas where bare ground is wanted we mix 4 Oz of generic round up and 2 oz of 24D LV per gallon of water for spot spray. It's relatively cheap and will kill everything , just be sure you use the LV version of 24D for drift control. You do need to rinse the sprayer when done because the mixture will clot if left to sit.

Ok what is the LV version? I have fence line and drainage ditches with small trees and weeds but the small trees is what really needs controlled

 

[wh]

On trees and such go with crossbow or remedy with round up and use a surfactant. It is for trees and hard to kill broadleaf plants. LV is low volatile. Will not get up and walk off after spraying.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Ok what is the LV version? I have fence line and drainage ditches with small trees and weeds but the small trees is what really needs controlled

LV = Low Volatile

 

[pomester]

Does mixing roundup and 2-4-D actually work against each other or diminish either chemicals efficiently?alternative that kills both weeds and brush/small trees?

They compliment each other. Glyphosate (Roundup) and 2,4-D amine (LV) in combination is commonly used to maintain the herbicide strips under orchard trees. Glyphosate is non selective, but some weeds are more resistant than others, using 2,4-D in combination allows both to be used at a low rate with good efficacy. A surfactant is often added to increase efficacy, as is ammonium sulfate as a water conditioner preventing hard water ions from binding with the glyphosate. Some formulations are 'fully loaded' without the need for additional surfactants/conditioners, read the label. The performance of cheap formulations common at farm stores would likely be improved by a surfactant/acidifier.

If you are trying to knock down/clean up a fence row, the per acre rate recommendations don't help much with how much chemical to put in the tank. I have found a quart of (41%) glyphosate and a quart of 2,4-D amine plus a pint of AMS/surfactant per 50 gallons to be effective when applied with a hand gun, thoroughly wetting the foliage - anything that hits the ground is not going to help you. Be smart with your PPE, you're not a plant but this stuff is still not good for you.

 

[bmaverick]

Does mixing roundup and 2-4-D actually work against each other or diminish either chemicals efficiently?alternative that kills both weeds and brush/small trees?

Studies were done comparing roundup to Herbicidal vinegar. However, it has to be done in a dry season of days.
Here is one such study.

Herbicidal vinegar is stronger than household vinegar: the acetic acid concentration for herbicidal use is 10 -20%, compared to 5% acetic acid.

Vinegar: An Alternative to Glyphosate?​

Vinegar: An Alternative to Glyphosate? | University of Maryland Extension

Pros and cons of vinegar as an alternative to glyphosate

extension.umd.edu

 

[Paul swpa]

Ok what is the LV version? I have fence line and drainage ditches with small trees and weeds but the small trees is what really needs controlled

Ester version. I may be wrong according to some of the other posts? What I have is called LV4 and is an ester formulation vs. an amine formulation. Amine we use on hay fields and oats, sometimes other small grains and corn for broadleaf weed problems.

 

[paul]

Someone mentioned Enlist 2 as a pre made mix of roundup and 24D. It is, it works well, and it is expensive. The 24D portion is a newer formulation that does not drift much at all. It’s a good product, but did I mention expensive….

Enlist One is the newer version of 24D. It works well, it does not drift, actually volatilize is what we worry about, much at all. Very good product and not too terribly expensive. Also it is designed to blend with Roundup type products better.

So…..

I would try to find a supply of Enlist One (the 24d) and a good Roundup product. They should mix and work well together.

The issues with mixing them: one is a water based product, and the other is an oil based product - to keep it simple. They can act like mixing - oil and water….. the newer formulations are a lot better at it.

The 24d products kill broadleaf weeds by accelerating their growth so the weeds actually grow themselves to death. They can’t stop growing. That is why you see the broadleaf plants wilt within an hour - they are growing faster than they can replenish their cells. This has the effect of mostly just burning off the top green stuff. This will kill many broadleaf plants, but some of the bigger rooted plants will regrow from their root. Takes multiple applications before the root gets weak enough to die.

The Roundup product is very different. It soaks into the plant and gets taken down to the roots. This can take several days, so you hardly notice any effect for a day or 4, and then the plant only slowly fades away. But the Roundup kills the plant from the root up, and is much more effective at killing off the whole plant. Quite a few weeds have built up resistance to Roundup, but it’s good at killing grasses, and it still kills off a lot of broadleaves.

One of the problems of mixing them is that the 24d will kill off the green tops of difficult weeds, before the roundup has a chance to soak down to the root. And so those difficult weeds will grow back from their root now, because the 2 chemicals work so differently, neither one got a good chance to work properly.

More info than anyone bothers to read I’m sure.

Vinegar ‘works’ for those that don’t like herbicides and tell themselves it worked, but it’s a pretty poor and very expensive product that adds acid to your soils. Not really anything you want to do unless you have 5 weeds and want to prove to the world that you can be different. IMHO.

Paul

 

[lodoc]

Agree w Pomester and Paul....

Use Glyphosate and 2-4-D together regularly and they work well together

 

[UncleTom]

We used Round up to treat trees that we cut in the county parks such as honeysuckle and buckthorn. If you dont treat them they come back 10x as bad. Just sprayed a little around the outside ring and we used dye so we didnt miss any.

 

[Texasmark]

I never mix, but I do sometimes use a surfactant if the label says to. Roundup is non-selective: it kills everything-grass or weeds, but not brush. 2 4 D is used on broadleaf plants-young weeds usually. To kill brush/small trees/briars-Crossbow is a product that I commonly use. Once an undesired species is mature and making seed heads, it is hard to kill. Early spraying is more effective. Mark.

I understand that the cell structure of broad leaf (in particular) weeds is round whereas grass has a parallel structure. Being such, 2, 4-D was designed to attack the round cell plants.

I use Ranger 40+% Glyphosate for total kill. Never mixed the two. One way to find out the answer to your question......test it.

The surfactant is recommended for all products of the type. It is essentially soap (some folks use cheap dish soap.....as I have on occasion) that breaks down the outer coating on the surface of living plants.....says so on the container. I have and have not used it and no doubt its effective...not a big deal to get a much better solution to your weed problem.

 

[Texasmark]

We used Round up to treat trees that we cut in the county parks such as honeysuckle and buckthorn. If you dont treat them they come back 10x as bad. Just sprayed a little around the outside ring and we used dye so we didnt miss any.

On dye, when I recently went after the Hemlock, I decided to add some blue dye to the mix for the reason you stated. It didn't take much. Like my pond, I buy pond blue dye to block out the suns rays and reduce the production of Coon Tail Moss. Doesn't take much (of either) to get the desired effect.