select o speed questions

[psu927as]

I have a 4000 4 cylinder diesel (1964) and I adjusted the bands, and changed the fluid. The tractor runs and shifts great, however after the band adjustment, it would hold on a hill in part. I have heard the procedure is different on different select o speed transmissions. I went by the manual, however I am not sure the manual matches my tractor... How different are the procedures?

Also, what is the normal operating temp of the transmission? After mowing a field, I can't hold my hand on the side. Guessing it's running about 135-150. This sound normal? Thanks guys

I see guys talk about direct drive and overdrive? I thought you have gears 1-10 and thats it. Can someone explain this?


One more thing, the 3 point works good, however when holding a load in the air, I notice the arms "bouncing" or "searching" slightly, like it drops an inch and goes right back up. It holds a selected position fine, guessing piston oring?

 

[psu927as]

Editing is temp disabled, it WON'T hold on a hill in PARK

 

[showcrop]

The early ones were "over-running" in three of the speeds. You would know it if it were taking off on a steep downhill grade. That is what you are thinking of with "overdrive". Hard to tell what you mean by "hold on a hill in part", but understand that until the transmission oil gets warmed up it is normal for it to creep after put in park. Very Hot is normal, I often wear shorts while working. While I have never seen a burn mark it is very uncomfortable when my leg presses against the case when in the field. The bouncing of the lift is usually the lift cylinder packing.

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 17:36:56 06/18/19)

The early ones were "over-running" in three of the speeds.

'59 thru '62 801 and other 01 series SOS Tractors were over-running in six of the speeds, to wit: R1,1,2,5,6 & 9. Ford chose to only mark the faster three of these, 5,6, & 9 with red hash marks on the shifter because there was no engine hold back in any of these six ratios.

To the OP: You need the following manual to adjust the bands in your four cylinder 4000 SOS -

Click here: Early DDC SOS manual

I'm guessing your band adjustment is too loose if Park doesn't hold on a hill.

 

[psu927as]

(quoted from post at 16:43:08 06/18/19)

(quoted from post at 17:36:56 06/18/19)

The early ones were "over-running" in three of the speeds.

'59 thru '62 801 and other 01 series SOS Tractors were over-running in six of the speeds, to wit: R1,1,2,5,6 & 9. Ford chose to only mark the faster three of these, 5,6, & 9 with red hash marks on the shifter because there was no engine hold back in any of these six ratios.

To the OP: You need the following manual to adjust the bands in your four cylinder 4000 SOS -

Click here: Early DDC SOS manual

I'm guessing your band adjustment is too loose if Park doesn't hold on a hill.

I do have the manual, however questionable whether its the right one. I have the original FORD manual for 54-64 4 cylinders.

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 19:19:00 06/18/19)

I do have the manual, however questionable whether its the right one. I have the original FORD manual for 54-64 4 cylinders.

Did you click on my link? There should be no question in your mind as to which manual you need if you had.

 

[psu927as]

I did, thank you for that. I hate to buy another manual, if mine is correct. I guess my question is, does anyone know how the procedures differ between different SOS models?

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 17:59:35 06/18/19)
I did, thank you for that. I hate to buy another manual, if mine is correct. I guess my question is, does anyone know how the procedures differ between different SOS models?

Can you not ID yet which yours is? I don't see how you cannot tell whether or not it is running away down hill. There are very few of the early ones around. I don't know what "procedures" you are asking about . Operating, servicing, or overhaul.

 

[psu927as]

I havent ran it enough to see if it "runs away" downhill, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't. The "procedures" i'm referring to are for the band adjustment.

My ford book has a dedicated SOS section at the beginning, and another SOS section in the middle. One says that band 1 should be adjusted with the engine off, but doesn't specify a gear position, the other doesn't say anything about adjusting it with the engine off. Which is correct?

The manual is a FORD manual. I did just look at it and the SOS supplement says its for Direct Drive Clutch models.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 03:13:11 06/19/19) I havent ran it enough to see if it "runs away" downhill, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't. The "procedures" i'm referring to are for the band adjustment.

My ford book has a dedicated SOS section at the beginning, and another SOS section in the middle. One says that band 1 should be adjusted with the engine off, but doesn't specify a gear position, the other doesn't say anything about adjusting it with the engine off. Which is correct?

The manual is a FORD manual. I did just look at it and the SOS supplement says its for Direct Drive Clutch models.

I adjusted mine last year using the IT manual. Part of the procedure was with engine off, and part with it running with the traction disconnected. A Ford manual trumps an IT however. Neither procedure references a gear position? I would see gear position as critical.

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 04:32:03 06/19/19)

Can you not ID yet which yours is?.

OEM in a '64 4000 is the DDC transmission. Unless someone's mutted that tractor, it is not an ORC in it!.

psu927as - $19.00 is too much to pay for a proper manual for that transmission - and you hope to learn it????

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 04:21:42 06/19/19)

(quoted from post at 04:32:03 06/19/19)

Can you not ID yet which yours is?.

OEM in a '64 4000 is the DDC transmission. Unless someone's mutted that tractor, it is not an ORC in it!.

psu927as - $19.00 is too much to pay for a proper manual for that transmission - and you hope to learn it????

Larry, could you try to help a little more with the manual situation? I take his description to mean that he already has the one that you are recommending in the front of his FORD manual as an added supplement.

 

[psu927as]

^^^ Exactly. I'm pretty sure mine is correct, I just was curious if the procedure is much different between different ones.

 

[murray moore]

I have the same manual that you are referring to. The front section that includes the SOS is the
updated SOS maintenance and repair for the later SOS transmissions. The other SOS section
that is embedded in the middle of the manual is for the original or early SOS transmissions.

It seems that this published version is inclusive for both early and later improved Ford 600-800
(01 Series) just before the thousand series tractors with SOS.

I just picked up several SOS manuals including a Ford SOS training manual . When they arrive i
may have more information to share.

Adjusting procedures in both sections of the manual that you have should be the same - but I am
not an expert.

If you have an early SOS there should be red cross hatchings on the selector for gears 5, 6 and
possibly 9.

The casting code on the left side should also provide the year of manufacture. For example,
312259 F249. Meaning F = 6th letter = June 24, 1959. 9 meaning year.

 

[showcrop]

"If you have an early SOS there should be red cross hatchings on the selector for gears 5, 6 and
possibly 9."




Is not true. Most early over-running SOSs were changed out for the next gen, but the SELECTOR WAS NOT CHANGED. so the hash marks are not an indication. You can tell a later from an early from 30 feet on the right side by the slant on the right. The early ones are the same all the way across.

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 04:32:03 06/19/19)




Larry, could you try to help a little more with the manual situation? I take his description to mean that he already has the one that you are recommending in the front of his FORD manual as an added supplement.

sorry! my bad! I missed that part. I was caught up in you guys discussion of ORC v. DDC, because it should be a mute point in a '64 4000.

He apparently then does have the SOS supplement that covers the 4000 SOS. If he compares that to the section embedded in the manual, he should be able to see the difference in band adjustment procedure between the ORC and DDC transmissions.

 

[psu927as]

Will go out and mess with it again this weekend probably!

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 19:37:50 06/19/19)
Will go out and mess with it again this weekend probably!

Don't go to mess with it! Go to put it into tip top condition!!!!

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 21:37:50 06/19/19)
Will go out and mess with it again this weekend probably!

Weekend is about over, but bands 2 & 3 are what it takes to make it Park. I'm guessing that if you worked it hard in the gears that use those bands, you'd find out one of them slips a little in the affected ratios. B2 is required for P, 5,6,7 & 8. B3 is required for P, R2, R1, N, 1, 2, 3 & 4.

 

[psu927as]

Had a busy weekend at work so no time to work on the tractor but than you for all of your help. My filter arrived so I will change that and re-adjust and update

 

[psu927as]

Changed the filter today, also checked my band adjustments.
The tractor seems to run and drive great. I don't seem to have any slipping in any gears when applying the brakes.

It does still move on hills in park, but I found when I place it in park, while holding the brakes, and then "bump" the brakes slightly (letting the tractor roll forward a couple of inches) park always grabs and holds, even on the steepest ground. Seems like maybe something mechanical getting hung up?

I am running TSC oil right now, gonna switch to valvoline 873 in the future to see if it helps I suppose.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 14:05:24 06/25/19)
Changed the filter today, also checked my band adjustments.
The tractor seems to run and drive great. I don't seem to have any slipping in any gears when applying the brakes.

It does still move on hills in park, but I found when I place it in park, while holding the brakes, and then "bump" the brakes slightly (letting the tractor roll forward a couple of inches) park always grabs and holds, even on the steepest ground. Seems like maybe something mechanical getting hung up?

I am running TSC oil right now, gonna switch to valvoline 873 in the future to see if it helps I suppose.

psu you should read all the answers that you have gotten.

 

[psu927as]

What did I say that would imply I didn't read every post? There is no ambiguous info in my post.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 14:53:36 06/25/19)
What did I say that would imply I didn't read every post? There is no ambiguous info in my post.

"Seems like maybe something mechanical getting hung up? "

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 16:05:24 06/25/19)
Changed the filter today, also checked my band adjustments.
The tractor seems to run and drive great. I don't seem to have any slipping in any gears when applying the brakes.

It does still move on hills in park, but I found when I place it in park, while holding the brakes, and then "bump" the brakes slightly (letting the tractor roll forward a couple of inches) park always grabs and holds, even on the steepest ground. Seems like maybe something mechanical getting hung up?

I am running TSC oil right now, gonna switch to valvoline 873 in the future to see if it helps I suppose.

Dunno the specs on your TSC oil. If it's any heavier than it should be, that could aggravate your Park situation, B2 & B3 are spring applied. Therefore, all the oil has to drain out of their servos for them to apply.

I'm beginning, now, to think what you're concerned about is nothing more than cold and/or heavy oil not exiting the servos fast enough. To some extent what you're describing is normal cold SOS operation. One needs to hold the brakes momentarily until servos drain. At normal operating temperature with proper and clean oil, Park should be fairly instantaneous.