should i rebuild it?

[DiamondIntl]

Iam starting to break down my 8n motor to start on a rebuild. The problem/question iam having is it worth it to spend like 400+ on it to rebuild or try to find a new tractor to buy?? Having some second thoughts b/c of like honing the engine and if the valves do not seat right!

I have the tractor part way broke down and soon i"ll have it broke down. I will post some pic to see whats everyones advice on it. Thanks

 

[Jim in Ma.]

If the rest off the tractor is in good condition, I would rebuild it. A lot cheaper then getting another one that may need work.
If you do rebuild it, do it rite and it will last a long time.

 

[Ultradog MN]

What are your compression readings - dry and then wet?
What does the oil pressure read? Cold and then at hot idle?
Is it using any oil? Much blowby? Knocks? Noises?
Without answers to those questions we can not advise.

 

[DiamondIntl]

Ya thats the thing i took it to a guy and he said low compression, i dont know wet or dry. An also its my frist tractor!! but i cant find anyone that is reasonable on price to fix it or rebuild it.. in North MS.

 

[Ultradog MN]

You say you have the tractor part broke down and soon will have it completely broke down. I assume you mean the engine too? As in taken apart?
Is the head off yet? Pan off? I hope not.
If not you can still do a compression test on it.
I really don't know why folks love to rip the heads off these tractors so much.
Why, the Pope, external_link, Robert E Lee, Clint Eastwood and Genghis Khan all together couldn't exhort folks to rip the heads off any faster than they do.

 

[souNdguy]

a comp tester is pretty cheap.. 20$ will get you a kit.. I've seen em for 10$ on sale even..

that way you will know exactly what is going on.. and if rings or valves.. or.. etc.

agree with UD.. I'd vener take an engine apart without kowing the details..

soundguy

 

[oldtanker]

Yup UD and Sound are right. Just taking it down with no real knowledge is when you start throwing parts at it. Throw parts at it long enough and you will fix the problem but at great cost. Mechanics who do a compression test on an engine they are not familiar with should be looking up the values. These flat head Fords have low numbers to start with. So a guy with some mechanical knowledge can do a compression test on a good engine and think it's weak. They are used to dealing with numbers in the 130 and up range. To them 110 is bad but on the old Fords like the N 90 is OK.

Rick

 

[DiamondIntl]

No i have not taken the head or pan off, but the rest of the parts are off. Intake, gas tank, spark wires, oil system, ect.

 

[R Geiger]

(quoted from post at 04:53:13 09/22/11) No i have not taken the head or pan off, but the rest of the parts are off. Intake, gas tank, spark wires, oil system, ect.

If you overhaul the engine you will spend a lot more than 400. more like double that or more. and that is if you do most of the work yourself.
If you enjoy doing this type of work and have the shop to work in I would go for it. It is a lot of fun and enjoyment. If you want a working tractor, go buy another runner and HOPE you get a good one.

There is a lot of help on here if you decide to go for it.
I overhauled an 8N engine last winter and spent 500 just getting the block and head inspected, repaired. It went up from there.

 

[DiamondIntl]

Ya i like doing this type of work. I also have a shop for it, the overhaul kit and bearings is only 440 or something like that. If you paid someone 500 dollars to get inspected you lost your mind somewhere. i would of never done that; but thats just me.

 

[R Geiger]

(quoted from post at 06:14:19 09/22/11) Ya i like doing this type of work. I also have a shop for it, the overhaul kit and bearings is only 440 or something like that. If you paid someone 500 dollars to get inspected you lost your mind somewhere. i would of never done that; but thats just me.

I probably did lose my mind but I had the block and head hot tanked, magafluxed for cracks, a crack repaired the block decked and the head milled and all valve seats replaced. I installed new sleeves, pistons, rings and bearings. the only think that was good to go was the crankshaft. I ended up with a good worker for about what I could have paid for one and I got all the enjoyment of doing it.
Let us know how you come out on it.
Good luck

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 13:18:25 09/21/11)

(quoted from post at 04:53:13 09/22/11) No i have not taken the head or pan off, but the rest of the parts are off. Intake, gas tank, spark wires, oil system, ect.

If you overhaul the engine you will spend a lot more than 400. more like double that or more. and that is if you do most of the work yourself.
If you enjoy doing this type of work and have the shop to work in I would go for it. It is a lot of fun and enjoyment. If you want a working tractor, go buy another runner and HOPE you get a good one.

There is a lot of help on here if you decide to go for it.
I overhauled an 8N engine last winter and spent 500 just getting the block and head inspected, repaired. It went up from there.

LOL If I were you I'd check to see what kinda mansion your machine shop owner is living in. Good shop around here that would be more like 200-250! OUCH :shock: :shock: :shock:

Rick

 

[DiamondIntl]

Ya that sounds about right with all that work that they did to it. But i have ppl that will turn my crank and mic it with bearing size an doing it for free so that cuts some of my money out of it. Just going to suck if my valves dont seat right!!!!

 

[R Geiger]

(quoted from post at 07:17:14 09/22/11) Ya that sounds about right with all that work that they did to it. But i have ppl that will turn my crank and mic it with bearing size an doing it for free so that cuts some of my money out of it. Just going to suck if my valves dont seat right!!!!

I would have the valve seats ground and valves either ground or replaced depending on stem wear. Complete valve kits are not that bad, but scope creep will kill you!! If you be a shame to do all the work only to find out the valves are not sealing.

 

[William Fissell]

Around here in NE ohio, a complete rebuild kit less valves, block/head magnafluxed, new sleeves installed, con rod bushings installed and honed, and head refinished, valve seats ground new welch plugs, $700.

I started mine cause (1) I always wanted to rebuild that engine and (2) a different path to get me a working tractor would have cost more money.

your call.

 

[DiamondIntl]

ya i got to find a place in memphis,tn to seat them if they will not seat

 

[Britcheflee]

(reply to post at 20:56:40 09/21/11)

Unless I missed something I dont think you described why you decided to start taking the thing apart? What was wrong with it?

Lee

 

[DiamondIntl]

I started taking the tractor apart because i took the tractor to a man i know and he told me that it had low compress. in the engine. So i was going to take a look at the rings and valves to see if they were messed up or it just really needed a new rebuild. I looked at buying just a new 8n tractor motor and they wanted like 2,000 for it. I think they have lost there mines in that case.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 15:10:50 09/21/11)
Yup UD and Sound are right. Just taking it down with no real knowledge is when you start throwing parts at it. Throw parts at it long enough and you will fix the problem but at great cost. Mechanics who do a compression test on an engine they are not familiar with should be looking up the values. These flat head Fords have low numbers to start with. So a guy with some mechanical knowledge can do a compression test on a good engine and think it's weak. They are used to dealing with numbers in the 130 and up range. To them 110 is bad but on the old Fords like the N 90 is OK.

Rick

If this is the way your local mechanics think I would look for others to hang out with...

A real wrench would never depend on compression numbers alone,,,, only internet gurus preach one test fitz'alls... My machine shop man is the highest around,,, he also does the best work,,, like him I will not lose my reputation working for some cheap SOB with a ford/any tractor... It is what it is its 70 years old and has its own set of issues... If it does not have the customers blessing (fat pocket book) its best to pass on the job...

To answer the original question " If the engine does not have yer blessing move on and never look back"

 

[DiamondIntl]

Here is the one and only tractor problems lol. Are my valve suppose to look like that??

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=2njhlxj" target="_blank">

</a>

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=149wqxc" target="_blank">

</a>

 

[R Geiger]

I would use something besides "tinypic" to host your photos!! TO SMALL TO SEE ANYTHING! :roll:

IF IT IS SHOWING VALVES STUCK OPEN THEN THAT IS WRONG.

 

[DiamondIntl]

ya i know i only had my phone to take pics at that time, but those valve look to spaced out to be even good? but now iam about to take the head off and get in the inside!!!

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 19:56:44 09/22/11)

(quoted from post at 15:10:50 09/21/11)
Yup UD and Sound are right. Just taking it down with no real knowledge is when you start throwing parts at it. Throw parts at it long enough and you will fix the problem but at great cost. Mechanics who do a compression test on an engine they are not familiar with should be looking up the values. These flat head Fords have low numbers to start with. So a guy with some mechanical knowledge can do a compression test on a good engine and think it's weak. They are used to dealing with numbers in the 130 and up range. To them 110 is bad but on the old Fords like the N 90 is OK.

Rick

If this is the way your local mechanics think I would look for others to hang out with...

A real wrench would never depend on compression numbers alone,,,, only internet gurus preach one test fitz'alls... My machine shop man is the highest around,,, he also does the best work,,, like him I will not lose my reputation working for some cheap SOB with a ford/any tractor... It is what it is its 70 years old and has its own set of issues... If it does not have the customers blessing (fat pocket book) its best to pass on the job...

To answer the original question " If the engine does not have yer blessing move on and never look back"

???? :?: I never said one test fits all. I said that if a guy not familiar with low compression engines like the N's they could and will tell a guy that he's got a bad engine when in fact it's good. Most of the gas engines I've worked on spec out as ok but just ok at 125PSI, when ya get a 90 PSI reading it's time to do something. Thats why I said a guy needs to know the spec or values before doing a compression test on the engine they are testing.

I would never had told a customer his engine was bad (short of having a rod through the side of it) on just a compression test and I darn sure would know the specs for the engine being tested.

As far as 2k for a reman, go check your local shops that do rebuilds and see what they charge. I'd be willing to bet that they are going to be close to 2K with you bringing them the engine. If they have to tear the tractor down and put it back together I'm betting on 2500 to 3K.

Rick