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sickle bar mowers ?

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dwragon

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question about sickle bar mowers, every one I have seen show the sickle to the right of the operator. Would this be for mechanical basis, or simply visual observation of the blade tip? Has anyone seen one any old ones directly behind the tractor or to the left?
 
Directly behind would be a disaster, the wheel tracks would clog, aside from not cut them.

There have been contraptions that put three sickles on a tractor, one in front, one to the left and one to the right. Think they are more popular in Europe, and those still being produced are likely all disc mowers now.

I’ve never seen a single mower to the left side but no reason it couldn’t be.

Somewhere early on it was determined most all equipment would be out to the right side, and tractor controls migrated to allow a person so turn to the right some, steer with the left hand, and run the controls with the right hand as you looked back over your right shoulder. Combines, mowers, balers, etc all follow that pattern, very rare and typically very old item will be opposite.

Paul
 
Mid mount mowers, before three point became popular, were a lot easier to run. They bolted on in front of the rear wheel, to the engine frame, and stuck out to the right of course. Much easier to watch as you looked down and right but still forward, and so much easier to steer around stuff.

But, what a a pain in the rear to mount and dismount........

Paul
 
Paul...

Ah, ok. well, I am looking for the widest cut I can get from a small to midsized tractor, mostly looking to knock down weeds over 6 inches tall, to mow a 40 acre sheep or hay pasture. My other alternative is a batwing, but size equals fuel consumption... so, the reason I was asking is I am hoping to find an old pull behind horse drawn type, which would be very early, to combine with a right hand cutter. as well as not using any power from the tractor (load, wear, and fuel consumption).
 
Put new style guards on it and you can cut 6 mph
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go with a batwing,, those horse drawn mowers do not like being pulled over 3 mph very much and unless you have a handful of them for parts you are fighting a losing battle,, cost pulling a batwing in 6" of material would be very little in fuel,, there is a reason no one pulled a horse drawn mower for long with a tractor and parked them and bought a tractor ,model,,,
 
(quoted from post at 03:14:45 12/22/20) Paul...

Ah, ok. well, I am looking for the widest cut I can get from a small to midsized tractor, mostly looking to knock down weeds over 6 inches tall, to mow a 40 acre sheep or hay pasture. My other alternative is a batwing, but size equals fuel consumption... so, the reason I was asking is I am hoping to find an old pull behind horse drawn type, which would be very early, to combine with a right hand cutter. as well as not using any power from the tractor (load, wear, and fuel consumption).
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Don't try to do this, please. You'll pull the horse drawn mower to pieces in no time. They just aren't built for this. If you insist on using a sickle bar mower (vs a sickle bar haybine) try to get a 3 pt or drawbar mounted job. You'll still have all the issues that a straight sickle bar brings, but at least it will be built to do the job. You might be better off finding a haybine that the rolls aren't so great on- no so good for hay but great for weeds. Lots heavier built and better results with the reel pulling the weeds off the sickle. Another option would be a flail mower/chopper or a bush hog type cutter.

Is this a pasture or a hay meadow you want to cut? Two different things. Pasture is grazing land. Hay land, a meadow, is mainly for cutting hay and may get grazed once in a while. Pastures tend to be a lot rougher than a meadow. You drag a horse drawn mower over a pasture at tractor speeds you'll have a pile of busted scrap metal in no time at all.

If this is for sheep, you shouldn't have much in the way of weeds anyway. Use some fencing (we use electro-net) to keep them in an area until the weeds are chewed off. Then move them. Might have to clip out the Thistles but they'll eat everything else once they learn how.
 
First thing is what are you going to use for a small to mid-sized tractor to run this mower/cutter? The mower/cutter should be sized to the tractor. Even at 6" material, the size of the tractor will come into play as to what mower/cutter it will run properly and economically. If you have to crawl to keep the rpms up on a tractor while cutting, a smaller mower/cutter that allows higher ground speed at rpm will be quicker and more economical than "the widest cut I can get". Pasture condition and obstacles can be more of an issue with a wide mower as well. JMHO

Also if you were to hook a horse drawn mower behind your unit for a wider cut, it will use power from the tractor, it ain't free. It is a load being pulled, the friction of its wheels drive the gears in it to power the cutting. If it wasn't a load that needed power to operate, they wouldn't have needed horses to pull it.
 
I think you are right but I have always felt the Allis WD and WD-45 were built with the seat offset to aid in using the Left Feed Combine and Left feed Roto-baler. Now I am not sure?? My Dad modifyed his WD-Allis with a Joy Ride seat in the middle and seemed to like it especialy the cushion and the shock-Spring combination> cleddy
 


DW, as Bret said you don't want an old horse drawn mower. Your thinking about not taking PTO power from the tractor is wrong. Ground drive will use more power than PTO. Sickle bar mowers don't take but very little power. You can easily run a seven footer. I would take a three point over a belly mount sickle bar. They both cut on the right side, but the 3 point gives you better visibility to keep from hitting something. Provided you take the time to get the sickle bar set up with good knife sections, guards and hold downs, you will be able to fly over your 40 acres.
 
IH as well as some other companies, offered a 9' sickle bar. Rowse offers a tandem 7' or 9' setup to utilize two cutterbars, but they can be pricey &
depending on where you are, hard to find. Thay are common in the plains states.

Mike
 
You are over thinking this.

Get a brush hog and have some fun.

Sickle mowers are not fun, they clog often and give issues. Old horse drawn are built for horse speeds and likely hard to get even wear parts for. Nothing good will come out of this. Sickle Mowers cut good hay on good ground pretty good. Weeds, uneven, manure patties, and a sickle mower sucks.

Paul
 
The trick to successful sickle bar mowing is speed. If you drive too slow the hay will not fall correctly and clog the bat. They are made to cut hay. So your hay fields should be free of rocks, cow pies, weeds etc.. if you just want to mow for weed control or feedlot mowing, then a bush hog is the answer.
 
(quoted from post at 21:47:36 12/21/20) question about sickle bar mowers, every one I have seen show the sickle to the right of the operator. Would this be for mechanical basis, or simply visual observation of the blade tip? Has anyone seen one any old ones directly behind the tractor or to the left?
Click to expand...

All have been right hand, even the old horse drawn ones. I have seen front mounted ones in Europe.

Do yourself a favor and get a bushhog type mower, 3pt hitch PTO. A 5 foot one will cut fast enough compared to 7 foot sickle that isn't in good shape and will plug all the time.
 

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Clipping grass on a rough old piece of ground
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The guy didn’t want it cut close to the ground so I just raised the bar about 6 inches up off the ground
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Now that would be easy to watch with the seat offset to the right on WC,WD,WD-45 Allis-Chalmers. Why would Allis
Chalmers offset the seat to the right if it wasnt for vision down the right side? The "B" Farmall was also offset.

I didnt mind the "offset" but straddling that Flat Bar Mount with one leg straight and reaching with the other over
to the clutch got tiresome after a few hours.Cleddy
 
When we went to the Stock show in Denver in the 70s,there was an outfit from Nebraska that made cuctom mowers. They made tandem and triples. The tandems had one on the right,and one in the front. The triple had left,center,and right side mowers. 9 ft each side,7 in center. Hydralic driven.they were displayed on IH 450 and 560 tractors.
 
In my heavy wet hay, mowing in 4th gear on a 5 speed Ford 960 was good, often had to drop to 3rd gear. If you had to use a lower gear it was a long miserable day, as the hay would want to flop forward and foul up the cutter bar. Too slow in this stuff is miserable.

Paul
 
JD, had nice 7' and 9' mid mounted sickle mowers using the under center pto on 10 and20 series tractors. I had one on a Ford 5000 ,but had to rig up pto drive from rear ,similar to AC mid mount. they both had high speed wobble sickle drive. An old 9-16'haybine might work also if you keep the sickle drive,sections,and guards adjusted and the head floating properly. Mechanical drive ones don't take much power unless the hay is heavy.
 
(quoted from post at 19:49:03 12/24/20) JD, had nice 7' and 9' mid mounted sickle mowers using the under center pto on 10 and20 series tractors. I had one on a Ford 5000 ,but had to rig up pto drive from rear ,similar to AC mid mount. they both had high speed wobble sickle drive. An old 9-16'haybine might work also if you keep the sickle drive,sections,and guards adjusted and the head floating properly. Mechanical drive ones don't take much power unless the hay is heavy.
Click to expand...

"Mechanical drive ones don't take much power unless the hay is heavy."

Ever mowed native prairie grass/wire grass?
 
Mr. Cummins, did you know that the manual for the #5 shows how to set that mower up an a D? World's most practical tractor.

Ha ha! Just had to say it. And no, I'm not gonna try it. I'd get a better ride than you though. ;)
 
Hey I live a model D . And yessir I did it even tell how to hook it up to a Big model model R . The sales brochure says the no. 8 will work with most any tractor
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I’ve raked hay with an 8400 John Deere with double John Deere bar rakes I
 
Was the company that made the custom mowers Kosch? I know someone with a double bar mower mounted to a Farmall 350 and he uses it to cut all of his hay (several thousand small square bales a year).
 
(quoted from post at 22:28:05 12/24/20) Was the company that made the custom mowers Kosch? I know someone with a double bar mower mounted to a Farmall 350 and he uses it to cut all of his hay (several thousand small square bales a year).
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To all, I have a 40 acre field that I am going to use for my hay meadow, it is completely clear and flat and I believe it is only bluegrass and light weeds in it. I am considering everything that is being said, thank yall all.
 
with a little tune up that ol sickle mower will walk through that grass like a stroll in the park . I’d find a pto powered mower or at
least a tractor drawn mower .
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All hay machinery I know (mower, rake, inverter, merger, baler) is made on the right side, which means going clockwise around the field. If you mowed with a mower on the left side, you'd be going counter-clockwise, then clockwise to rake and bale. That would mean every round you'd have to jump over to the next windrow instead of just following it, which makes kind of a mess on that corner. You can do it, but it's a pain. When I need to invert a field two days in a row, the second day I start in the center and work outwards, going counterclockwise, which means jumping over each round. That leaves you with circles instead of a spiral.

I don't know why some of the older combines were on the left, for a counter-clockwise cut. John Deere and Allis Chalmers were counterclockwise, but International and Minneapolis Moline were on the right, for a clockwise cut. Not sure why Deere and Chalmers made them that way but not their other equipment. Then to bale the straw, it means jumping over each round. I'm guessing John Deere di it that way because with their hand clutch it's easier to look back on the left while stretching your right arm for the clutch. You've gotta twist around pretty hard to reach the clutch and look over your right shoulder. But with a left hand foot clutch (IHC, etc.) a machine on the right is handier.

I don't suppose Allis Chalmers' tractors had a right hand foot clutch, did they? That'd explain their combine.
 
Good summary of everything concerned. Your last line about Allis-Chalmers having a right hand foot clutch-They had something much better and considered Innovative the right hand -"Hand Clutch" which was right at your finger tips and allowed stopping-go while PTO ran continuously. First example of Live PTO so feed could be monitored in>Cleddy
 
When did Allison Chalmers release their hand clutch that still allowed the pto to spin? I thought the earliest live PTO was on the Cockshutt 30?
 
I don't know about earliest, but Allis-Chalmers WD had the hand clutch about 1950. It not true live PTO but it stops forward-reverse motion while PTO continues to run. I never seen them but I think some of the Minnieapolis-Moline had a clutch where one tire was released from turning to create a live PTO.cleddy
 
The reason JD made the small 6ft combines left hand cut had nothing to do with the clutch. First of all, they were right hand cut to start with. However, dealers were getting swamped with grain binders for trade ins. In order to get some value out of what was otherwise an obsolete machine, farmers and dealers started converting them to poor man windrowers or swathers. Now because they were left hand cut, the combines had to be switched over to left hand cut in order to follow the windrow and JD did that after only a year.

Now I have no idea why AC machines were left hand cut but the reason I gave for JD is fact. Sounds kind of silly but you have to remember the regions that used the windrow/pickup method was extensive basically the northern wheat belt and Canada and so had a lot of influence on JD machinery. And since farmers in the corn belt for the most part didn’t care either way which side the header was on, JD so no harm in making the switch.
 
It doesn't have to be horse drawn to be a pull type. We had a Case pull type that I ran behind our JD 70. The A would have pulled it easy, but the live power was better.
 
I took one of those off a M it would not move any more as the disc's inside were smoked bad,, what a job to take that kit off,, had to pull the axle housing and top cover,, and do the same on a parts unit I had to get the needed parts to put it back to original,,
 
Just my 2 cents but I think my NH sicklebar cut a lot better by dumping the old ledger guards and installing the newer guards like on a NH 489 haybine with a sawtooth blade.
 
According to the book "The Grain Harvesters" by Quick & Buchele. The first reapers made in the 1830's did not have a canvas to bring the cut grain to the edge of the platform. A left hand cut reaper was easier for a right handed man to walk along side to rake off the grain. When twine tie binders were developed they continued to be left hand cut. When small combines came along they followed behind left cut binders converted to swathers. My father told the story that they had a right hand cut swather and a left hand AC combine. Started harvesting the windrows in the middle of the field and worked their way to the outside.

Right handed equipment and cuts of course are easier for a right handed person if the controls are on the right. This book does not address haying equipment and I too have never seen a left hand cut sickle mower, horse or tractor drawn.
 

To all, OK, I will go with a three point pto driven unit, but I still want both left and right side cutting, simply to conserve time, hoping for maybe a 20 foot total cut in plain grass, but I realize that that may not happen. I know can find enough parts doners online, and will modify what I have to to get what I want. I will post pics when I get it done.
 
(quoted from post at 21:08:45 01/02/21)
To all, OK, I will go with a three point pto driven unit, but I still want both left and right side cutting, simply to conserve time, hoping for maybe a 20 foot total cut in plain grass, but I realize that that may not happen. I know can find enough parts doners online, and will modify what I have to to get what I want. I will post pics when I get it done.
Click to expand...

Why fool around with 20 feet? Google Krone Big M.
 
On the land west of my Grandparents farm (used to be in the family) there was an right cut binder. We were surprised as kids as my family had (2) left cut mcCormick Binders. I asked the present owner a couple years ago if it was still there? He said it was and said someone shot a hole thru it with a shotgun and then proceeded to chew me out if I ever thought about hunting on his land. Surprised he told me anything about it as he reffered to it as old junk like I had!!!!Cleddy
 
(quoted from post at 19:56:08 12/24/20)
(quoted from post at 19:49:03 12/24/20) JD, had nice 7' and 9' mid mounted sickle mowers using the under center pto on 10 and20 series tractors. I had one on a Ford 5000 ,but had to rig up pto drive from rear ,similar to AC mid mount. they both had high speed wobble sickle drive. An old 9-16'haybine might work also if you keep the sickle drive,sections,and guards adjusted and the head floating properly. Mechanical drive ones don't take much power unless the hay is heavy.
Click to expand...

"Mechanical drive ones don't take much power unless the hay is heavy."

Ever mowed native prairie grass/wire grass?
Click to expand...

No ,Is it difficult?
 
"Mechanical drive ones don't take much power unless the hay is heavy."

Ever mowed native prairie grass/wire grass?
Click to expand...

No, Is it difficult?[/quote]

It takes POWER even with a sickle mower in good condition.
 
(quoted from post at 06:33:34 01/04/21) On the land west of my Grandparents farm (used to be in the family) there was an right cut binder. We were surprised as kids as my family had (2) left cut mcCormick Binders. I asked the present owner a couple years ago if it was still there? He said it was and said someone shot a hole thru it with a shotgun and then proceeded to chew me out if I ever thought about hunting on his land. Surprised he told me anything about it as he reffered to it as old junk like I had!!!!Cleddy
Click to expand...

Cleddy, I found this info on another site. Apparently during the 1890s harvester wars McCormick changed all its binder production to right-hand cut as a publicity stunt to draw attention to the McCormick name, then later returned the production to left hand.
 
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