Just replaced coil/points/condenser/dist cap took the dist off and apart and cleaned magnets. Put it all back together and went for a drive. It starts right up, idles smooth but running around on the road in 3rd gear at max rpm it seems to have a slight surge. Doesn't appear to be the engine. Appears elsewhere in the drivetrain. Didn't have the problem before by electrical issues. Anybody have any ideas?
Royse
Well-known Member
- Location
- Ionia County, Michigan
Are you saying the engine speed remains constant and the ground
speed changes or does the engine speed change as in rev up/down?
If the engine revs or slows at full throttle, try pulling the choke a tad.
If that helps, then you might want to back out the main adjustment
on the carb a 1/4 turn or so. It is winter up here so I usually tweak
mine a bit for cold weather and then tweak them back in summer.
speed changes or does the engine speed change as in rev up/down?
If the engine revs or slows at full throttle, try pulling the choke a tad.
If that helps, then you might want to back out the main adjustment
on the carb a 1/4 turn or so. It is winter up here so I usually tweak
mine a bit for cold weather and then tweak them back in summer.
I can't really tell Lawson. If I'm parked the engine speed is constant wherever I put it. It seems when I'm moving RPM's are up and down. I've got one of those lawn mower tachs and it does seam to surge. I'll try the choke trick. Also it doesn't seem that I can get to as high rpm's now.
Royse
Well-known Member
- Location
- Ionia County, Michigan
When you say magnets I think you are talking about the fly
weights under the points plate in the distributor. Is that right?
If so, as long as they move freely and the springs aren't broken
you are probably good with those. The shaft can be twisted to
check them when it's off and apart. I doubt that is the issue here
though if the engine responds quickly to an increase in throttle.
The governor also plays a role in this equation, but if it responds
correctly to throttle increases and load changes such as going up
a hill, I would look for another cause first before buying parts.
weights under the points plate in the distributor. Is that right?
If so, as long as they move freely and the springs aren't broken
you are probably good with those. The shaft can be twisted to
check them when it's off and apart. I doubt that is the issue here
though if the engine responds quickly to an increase in throttle.
The governor also plays a role in this equation, but if it responds
correctly to throttle increases and load changes such as going up
a hill, I would look for another cause first before buying parts.
Magnets were good, springs were good.
I seemed to notice more of a miss at idle, although it has a pretty smooth idle. The exhaust note also seems to sound different. One thing I was wondering. When I put the points breaker plate back in the dist housing that little screw from the side has a little play in it and I'm guessing it is a timing advance adjustment. I put it in the middle of the 3/4" slot. How should I adjust that ?
Royse
Well-known Member
- Location
- Ionia County, Michigan
That is the timing adjustment and should not be loose.
There is a procedure in the I&T FO-4 manual on how to adjust it.
Takes a drill bit and a ruler. Pretty simple. It's part of replacing the points.
TOH also sells a timing jig to make it even easier.
I'm not sure if he has them in stock right now but they're worth the money.
Here's a [b:0e91962840]Link[/b:0e91962840]
There is a procedure in the I&T FO-4 manual on how to adjust it.
Takes a drill bit and a ruler. Pretty simple. It's part of replacing the points.
TOH also sells a timing jig to make it even easier.
I'm not sure if he has them in stock right now but they're worth the money.
Here's a [b:0e91962840]Link[/b:0e91962840]
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
" I'm guessing it is a timing advance adjustment."
I'm guessing you are working on a 70+ year old tractor with out the manuals.
That screw secures the plate. You loosen it to move the plate when the timing is adjusted.
As others are telling you, there are no magnets in the distributor. They are weights, part of the centrifugal timing advance mechanism. The usual wear points are
the tracks. Were they wallowed out?
75 Tips
I'm guessing you are working on a 70+ year old tractor with out the manuals.
That screw secures the plate. You loosen it to move the plate when the timing is adjusted.
As others are telling you, there are no magnets in the distributor. They are weights, part of the centrifugal timing advance mechanism. The usual wear points are
the tracks. Were they wallowed out?
75 Tips
You are guessing incorrectly. I have a manual, I just don't know where I put it. I'll look again today. Did not notice any "tracks" for clues of last position. The screw was not loose up and down. Of course you can move it left and right. It didn't seemed wallowed out. I don't think a small timing advance difference could cause this slight surging I'm describing.
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
" I don't think a small timing advance difference could cause this slight surging "
Maybe not. But you will never know for sure until you eliminate point gap & timing from the equation.
Each one of those tick marks represents 4 degrees of timing. I have 5 front distributors; 3 on working tractors and 2 spares. The timing is advanced at least 1
tick mark on everyone of them. So, if you set it in the middle, chances are that based upon my experience, your timing is likely retarded.
75 Tips
Maybe not. But you will never know for sure until you eliminate point gap & timing from the equation.
Each one of those tick marks represents 4 degrees of timing. I have 5 front distributors; 3 on working tractors and 2 spares. The timing is advanced at least 1
tick mark on everyone of them. So, if you set it in the middle, chances are that based upon my experience, your timing is likely retarded.
75 Tips
Farmer Dan
Member
Thanks Dan for posting that. Helpful Bruce to have rule of thumb based on experience at 1 tick mark.
Has anybody ever tried to time one of these like a car. That is find TDC on #1, make a mark on crank pulley, etc. The juice may not be worth the squeeze, that is setting them on 1 tick make may be close enough.
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
" That is find TDC on #1, make a mark on crank pulley, etc. "
I thought to do exactly that on the last engine I pulled down. But the result won't be what you are looking for.
I get out my light and hook it up. If the timing is correct on the light, I don't pull the distributor.
That is the only advantage of putting timing marks on a front mount, because if it needs adjusting, you can not turn the front distributor to set the timing
like you do on a side distributor.
NuRex makes the timing mark plate for Model A Fords that serves the same function. I have on on both of my A's. If the timing is ok, then I don't bother with
the points. And if you think timing is difficult on a frontmount N tractor, try it on a Model A . Or even worse, a front distributor V-8 Ford with dual points.
75 Tips
I thought to do exactly that on the last engine I pulled down. But the result won't be what you are looking for.
I get out my light and hook it up. If the timing is correct on the light, I don't pull the distributor.
That is the only advantage of putting timing marks on a front mount, because if it needs adjusting, you can not turn the front distributor to set the timing
like you do on a side distributor.
NuRex makes the timing mark plate for Model A Fords that serves the same function. I have on on both of my A's. If the timing is ok, then I don't bother with
the points. And if you think timing is difficult on a frontmount N tractor, try it on a Model A . Or even worse, a front distributor V-8 Ford with dual points.
75 Tips
Just followed that link Royse sent. Thanks for thatn. Now have exponentially (that's a JMOR/Bruce term) more respect for TOH and am extremely jealous of his shop !
TOH, I want one of those timing jigs, please let me know how to procure. Also want to see progress on the Triumph, and am saving aluminum cans to afford one of your ford sleeve jig sets.
TheOldHokie
Well-known Member
- Location
- Myersville, MD 21773
Send me an email and I will send you an invoice. Just about sold out - less than half a dozen remaining. Need to order another 100 pieces from the laser cutter.
TR4 came to me as a non-running mess - botched frame off "restoration" that was a twisted mess of rusted panels, bondo, and bad welding. However unlike a lot of them it was complete and reasonably priced. It has been completely disassembled and is now in pieces:
The frame has been blasted, primed, and painted. Currently installing the new front suspension and a front brake upgrade using Toyota dual piston calipers and vented rotors. Also opening up the center for a custom SS dual exhaust upgrade with quad resonators and tips - my version of the "classic" 1970's Abarth exhaust system sold for the TR6. Still debating whether I want to try and engineer a rear disc conversion while I have it all apart and on the lift. Brakes are pretty easy but fitting a suitable dual circuit master cylinder to the OEM pedal box is going to be a geometry challenge.
The tub has been blasted and primed and is waiting for me to get a rolling chassis back together so it can go back to the body doctor that did the blasting and priming. Needs major reconstructive surgery and I have stockpiled a truckload of new inner and outer sheet metal to go with it.
TOH
Farmer Dan
Member
That curved plate and screw on the side for there to make minor changes in the field when you change fuels. Not for everyday timing. If you touch the inside of the distributor with a screw driver you will need to retime it. Best advice is to get the timing jig from TOH and do it correctly, and forget that screw on the side you will never need it.
Nice work Hokie. Email sent. I definitely have a timing issue. I started her up this morning, very easy to start, but seeing much more vibration than before.
Bruce, my solution to Model A timing was to put a small block chevy in mine ! I was tempted a couple years ago to venture into Model T's, but have too many vehicles and not enough space. It would be fun to have a 100 yr old vehicle however.
Bruce, my solution to Model A timing was to put a small block chevy in mine ! I was tempted a couple years ago to venture into Model T's, but have too many vehicles and not enough space. It would be fun to have a 100 yr old vehicle however.
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