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Societies productive output???

J

JD Seller

Well-known Member
I see the post below about Nebraska's foot ball program brought out some strong opinions. I do not support organized sports of any form beyond grade school pickup games. Here is my reason for that. WASTED mental and financial resources!!! Just think of how much better off the world and man kind would be if the mental energy and money spent on GAMES was used doing positive research an development on the many issue that face man today. An example of this would be cures for many of the diseases that plague man, cancer or AIDs would be some of them.

These games, mainly football and basketball, elevate men that really have few endearing qualities other than they can PLAY a game well. Many of the players rap sheets are pages long without them getting much in the way of punishment because they are good players so they get a pass on having to behave normally. This "special" status starts when they are in grade schools in many places. Then it evolves further as they get older, bigger, faster, and more aggressive.

A good family friend has a very good job. He was offered a new position in Texas. This was only 4 years ago. HE basically doubled his salary. No problem with the job. His oldest daughter is a beautiful young woman and I do mean PRETTY an smart. They moved to a suburb of Austin. BIG high school football country. She was at the school just a few weeks when she was sexually assaulted right in the school hall way during classes. She was shoved up against a locker so hard she had bruises on her back. Then the fellow crabbed her breasts hard enough that she was bruised on them too. Who did it??? The varsity quarterback. What was done about it??? NOT A darn thing. The school and the local law enforcement would do nothing. They all said she was as much at fault as the PLAYER. WHAT??? She was wearing a dress and that excited the fellow. The dress came to her knees but that was the defensed used against charging the football player. My friend got a lawyer and tried to put up a fight but it went no where as the football team was winning games. He moved back to Iowa.

Let a science geek try that type of behavior on a cheerleader an see how fast he is expelled and arrested. The entire super athlete entitlement mentality is just plain wrong and allows/encourages outrageous behavior just because the player is good at sports.


I look at the high school here in Cascade. There is more money spent on the sports buildings then the class rooms. There is two LARGE gyms and a large football/track field. The classrooms are a little section off to the north. I think that if that same money and attention was spent on advancing learning that the WHOLE school body would be better off. Who cares if your the high school football GOD when your 35 years old looking for a JOB???? There are maybe 2-3 that get scholarships to college in each class. It is a very small percentage of the whole student body.

So right now is the football GLORY season. Many people spend their entire weekend on football of one kind or another. High school on Friday night. College football on Saturday. Then pro football on Sunday. Then how many wasted hours at their jobs during the following week talking about these same games????? What a waste of energy and money!!!!

I know I will get vilified for speaking against SPORTS. I wish that people would see that the diversion of sports and modern celebrities is just not really important in their everyday lives. IF your local/regional sports team wins or loses how does it help or hurt you in your life???? Unless your directly involved with that team its record has nothing to do with your life.

I also find it funny that people say we need more sports as we are getting FAT as a nation. So a very small percentage of the population playing sports while the majority of the supporters set on their butts drinking beer and eating food will help us slim down??? LOL
 
JS Seller- Whaddya talking about! Didn't OJ Simpson promote the healthy benefits of drinking orange juice? and he was a pro athlete? LOL, LOL
 
I agree with you "Completely"... Here in our local High school the Janitor asked the Superintendent he could have his sons picture put in the hallway "Hall of Fame" picture case,, the Super asked, did he play football?? basketball?? Track??...the Janitor said no to his questions but said that his son was the only student from this school who ever graduated from Annapolis, and that he was an officer on a Naval ship...the super replied,, No,, we don't have a place for him in that show case.... and This is another example of how our schools are failing us...I would rather have our school graduate the Best Mason's,welders,builders,,than have a winning ball team...but all they can preach is how they need to go on to an expensive collage and start life with a school debt of thousands of dollars..and still have no common sense or job offers...
 
I couldn't agree with you more JD. I loved playing hockey, but I wouldn't walk across the road to watch a game. Afraid sports is all about money, and how to get said money away from the weak minded suckers that are holding it.
 
I agree with you as well. It really would not bother me if there was never, ever a game or sporting event again anywhere.Paul
 
You're right. Just got home from church, more talk about luck's shoulder than church in after conversations!
 
Our high school choir did a record sang in Washington dc and did a tour on their own money they raised on there own no local recognition.
We also have west point graduate my niece participated in several runs for charity didn't even make the back pages.
The real interesting part several years ago they wanted money for a new sports field it got voted down twice then they got smart and got it voted in how ?the first votes were during the week when most of the farmers who pay taxes would vote the winning vote was on Saturday that way the factory workers who normally drive to work would then take the time to vote wonder why the property tax went up ? It didn't affect small household but large landowners it did
 
I fully agree with you. I was a HS science teacher for 32 years and Dept Head for 13 of those years. I worked with the budgets and everything that involved the science classes. We were always underfunded. I spent unpaid days in August duct taping together 10 year old physics textbooks to get another few years of use from them. Meanwhile we got an outdoor sports stadium with running track (and now astroturf). The schools got additional gyms added. Our academic subjects always took a lower priority to the sports stuff. I retired early! As I saw things, our teachers were mostly very hard working people, but the problem was the administrators and their glory seeking priorities. I enjoyed working with the kids!

Paul in MN
 
Had the same thing down here when I was in high school. Football QB could get away with anything.Last I heard. He was living in a Huntsville house that had four walls. Plus bars and guards.
 
JD,
I could not agree with you more. My Dad always said that "Their is nothing less beneficial to the betterment of mankind than the outcome of a sporting event." He never took us to a ball game in his life but that being said we knew every business man in this part of the state on a first name basis.
 
yep, for sure agree. my uncle made me laugh... "they are bent over with another guy's face in his azz!" he hated football.
 
What I can't figure out and no one seems able to explain it to me is: "What does the spectator get out of some athlete performing?" Doesn't do a thing for me. The spectators don't get to participate at all, so why do they watch?

Organized sports are bad for schools and the taxpayer; professional sports are a complete rip-off of the taxpayers. Professional sports are a business like any other business and if they can't make it financially without taxpayer welfare, they should go out of business just like any other business that fails. Bet you can't get any free advertising for your business - professional sports get all kinds of free airtime on TV, free copy in the papers, free radio time, that they should pay for like any other business.

How did we get so stupid?
 
Hi Dick
Why do spectators watch is simple it's something they enjoy. My sport of choice is tractor pulling at any level of a competition. I will watch drag racing and Mud bog to. Formula one or a sport game not a hope, unless it's to keep me out of trouble with the GF or her family L.O.L. Go to a guy and say why do you watch this and he will tell you he enjoys it. When he askes what you watch and replies whats that Like Tractor pulling to a townie , then you explain to him He says I'd rather sit and watch paint dry on a cold day with a beer. Well theres your answer I think Yours don't interest him either fair swap I'd say.
Regards Robert
 
Localkid did OK made the pros came home and paid off his Dads farm Dad died later but he is sure doing well on the farm.
 
Schools need to remember that there purpose is to teach the kids an education, not how to play a sport.
Local school keeps wanting to increase taxes because they a dificit. When they get the money most is spent on sports programs.If they don't get the money, then they threaten to cut sports programs and they get the money then. Some of the parents of the students are as much to blame as the school board.
 
Being form Wisconsin I am what I consider to be a very casual Packer fan. I only watch it if the weather is crappy outside or it is a night game. I usually go to bed at half time on night games. In total I watch less than half of the games per year but I do enjoy watching those. So my point is watching sports is entertainment. Restoring an old tractor is also entertainment. Do what you like to do. I am pretty sure there are a lot of people who think spending money on an old tractor is stupid. Even spending time on this sight would be considered a waste of time to some people. Different strokes for different folks.
 
I agree.
I've been to 3 games. One each for the last 3 years my boss's boy was in school. Including their homecoming game. Which is the one where he injured his shoulder bad enough they took him for an mri and found the injury from his jr year never fully healed.
I graduated with a kid who only graduated because he could play football. He was a jackbutt but every now and again there was a flash of brilliance. But since he could catch a ball no one ever did anything to develop it.
 
Yes Duane, you are correct,,but when we restore an old tractor we are not getting tax money to do it,,the largest part of my real-state tax is for the schools,,and I keep seeing that I am not getting my moneys worth...if the school sports is a big part of parents entertainment, then let the proceeds at the gate pay for it...I want to see education and good results from it,,and I am paying for it...every year at tax time....
 
So what is 'wasted' time and effort really? Fishing? Growing flowers? Hunting? Restoring an old tractor with no real use these days?Restoring a car or truck? Football? Soccer?
Horse Shoes? Riding horses? Rare person that hasn't 'wasted' their time doing at least one of these. It takes very little time these days for many older folks like me to cover my needs on basic food and shelter.So I guess all other activities are 'wasted' time and effort? If so, so be it its MY Time MY Money My Effort and its really no one else's business what I'm doing as far as its legal.Fortunately we live in a free society where we are free to do what we want,watch what we want and associate with who we want for the most part.And you should be glad its that way because if it wasn't and the majority decided what all would do you'd be either going to a football game or watching every Saturday and Sunday until the first of the year(LOL)I can tell you that you are definitely the odd man out not liking sports in the USA these days BUT that's fine and I fully support you and your right to make that choice.See you later the race is coming on in a couple minutes(LOL)
 
You're right and those that complain the most about how others spend their time usually have some just as time wasting activity they do and think its great.Really its a shame that Americans have lost their tolerance for others.I have a whole list of things I'd never do but if someone enjoys doing one of them then I'm glad they enjoy it.
 
Well said JD.
There are more absentee fathers and thus more social problems because the men are glued to their games.
More political problems because no one bothers to pay attention - due to the games.
I have said this here before; Years from now when historians look back on these times and try to understand why this nation self destructed, too much sports will be noted as one of the top contributing factors.
 
Sort of like the World looks at the Greek Olympics Centuries ago?(LOL)They are considered to be one of the of the greatest contributions to civilized society.Sports are one of the few common denominators for all countries all over the World these days.
 
You have expanded on a situation, involving an assault by a bully here and correlated it across the board to sports.

I've said it more than once here and in life, I hate bullies and those of this kind of character. I don't know where the ethics are for these people, ones that empower themselves based on popularity.

I'm not cut from that cloth, but certainly know how to cut through that cloth.

There is a lot of education being missed by the parents and the adolescent(s) involved. Its a corruption of society. I can tell you that in good faith to my beliefs I have on numerous occasions been involved with physical altercations with this type, starting in my youth and into my 20's, settling the situation each time with absolute victory over each one of them. I grew up learning to deal with life on my own and faced bullies every day for quite some time, it fueled my desire to learn how to take them down, through respectable means, that today would be frowned upon, because it can be violent or extremely humiliating. There is no other way to deal with these folks as I see it and society has pampered them in situations like you describe, so I agree on that part of it.

However, don't let that ruin the real benefits of true sporting competition, a friendly game of whatever it is that you like, it has nothing to do with any of the above and it never should.


The scenario with all the focus on sports in schools, both high school and college, is tainted with the above and there is a distinct and very prolific lack of education in numerous areas that these students should be learning, about right and wrong, things that are important throughout life, both physical and mental. A person needs to be strong in both areas throughout life, physical activity ie: sports, can provide that. We don't have the same kinds of coaches and mentors we once did. We have a lot of parents getting irate when their kid is not played enough on the team, and that has nothing to do with the true meaning of playing a team sport, nor the benefits you should be getting by education of the coach, they focus on winning, not building young men and women. I disagree with it completely.


There is way too much to comment about this subject, the values have been cast aside and now people of older generations are seeing things like you describe and hating on sports because of it.

When we were in high school locally, this area was loaded with farms and students from farms, many of them were excellent in sports because as kids when time allowed, they played all kinds of sports and outside games, so did the residential non farm kids. My long time friends middle son, a well built stocky/stout young man who was physically intimidating to look at, gained his physique from the hard work done on their dairy farm. His dad, whom I helped for many years later in life had to quit school to work many different jobs and was successful because of his work ethic. He was ok with his son playing sports, so was his sister and her youngest who was also built like a bull and could take both of my friends sons at that same time, these were tough farm boys with hard work ethics. They played, were well known on the field, both have led productive lives and their work ethic has not waned one bit since those days. None were bullies, but the nephew sure as heck liked all the physical play and wrestling around with many of the other kids, so much another long time friend and brother,(I'm part of their family seeing mine imploded way back when LOL!) sought out formal training, as did I, to be able to handle this guy and one day stopped him in his tracks LOL ! He just liked roughhousing the nephew, no farmers kids were bullies, their fathers would have straightened them out in a heartbeat. We're all good friends today, but we don't see each other all that much, its almost shocking when we do, age has a way of doing that.

So much more to this, and I have to get back to my wood pile, but I hear you on the side of it of which you describe, if that was my daughter, given how it is today, there would have been a serious problem, and that's putting it lightly.

Now I'll leave you with this. Yesterday, I went into the walmarts down the road. It was crowded, but there was a composite cross section of the local urban population in there and here is what is appalling. I have never seen that many morbidly obese people in one place before. Its beyond comprehension how a person allows themselves to get that way, (don't anyone take offense, I don't really care to hear it). I mean disabling obesity not carrying some extra like most do later in life, myself included. All of them had rats nest hair, have not done any daily hygiene, (shower/bath or wash their hair), they reek and their clothes are covered in pet or animal hair. Everyone I was near reeked of cigarettes. Every human being on this planet needs physical activity and to have some degree of fitness to be productive, I can't imagine that any of them could do one hours worth of physical labor, who knows how they support themselves, I'm just saying that being sedentary is a really bad thing, just ask any good doctor about it.

Now again don't anyone get insulted, its wrong to judge a person by how they look or otherwise, its also wrong to allow yourself to become morbidly obese if there is no health reason that you can't overcome, I realize there are extenuating circumstances, we are all different. I just have never seen so many people in one place that are extremely obese.

Sports will provide stress relief, physical activity, hand eye coordination, mental awareness and so many other things, just for having some fun. Not everyone lives on a farm or has a physically demanding occupation, but should know they need to stay fit for many many good reasons, or you will be like the above and what good is that when you think about it. Some can't do it on their own, a good coach will help you figure out a plan, something you like that will highly benefit your health, its a lifetime thing, so if you learn it from sports or elsewhere, you carry it with you, of course you must have self discipline, only you can build that to a level that helps you succeed, no different than any other thing in life.
 
I refused to go to a family reunion yesterday for that reason. I told my sister I was not about to drive a couple hundred miles to Atlanta again to watch a bunch of children worship and fondle their phones while the adults slobbered and whooped and hollered over some football game on TV. TDF
 
Traditional Farmer: I totally agree in that we have a free country. The trouble with professional sports and most College sports is that they play in stadiums built with the tax payers dime. You just stated you going to watch a race. Most race tracks I know of are built with private funds. So I say go for it. When these pro teams threaten to move if the city/region/state does not build them a NEW billon dollar stadium, it makes me sick to see the politicians fold like a house of cards.

Lets look at Cincinnati. River front stadium was built in the early 1970s, cost 45 million. I went to a few games there as my cousin's kids got tickets for straight "A" grades in school. Nice building and well maintained. The Brown family did not like that fact that it was not the best for Pro football. Mainly not enough seating capacity and sky boxes. So about 20 years ago they pressed the city to do something or they were going to move the team. Then the Reds ownership got involved as well and they wanted new as well. The result is Riverfront got torn down. Then they built TWO new stadiums neither of which is enclosed. The Brown family refused to even consider an enclosed and or shared stadium. The total cost of the two stadiums was just at one BILLION dollars. The foot ball stadium at 555 million. The Bengals pay a few million each year in direct rent. Hamilton County paid for the stadiums itself. It is paying 34.6 million each year or 16.7% of its total budget for the stadium. The red's stadium is basically self supporting as they pay more rent than the football team. If you own a $100,000 house in Hamilton County your paying about $250 each year for the Bengal football team to play there. While the team owners are not paying hardly anything fair there multi million dollar team to play there. THAT is the ISSUE.

These "deals" are going on across the country. LET the team pay for their own stadium or pay a rental fee that covers the TRUE cost of the stadium.

Also the sports leagues enjoy a special status under Federal law. They should be taxed and considered a Corporation just like GM or any other BUSINESS. Owning sports teams is the current way for a few dozen wealthy people to flaunt their wealth. Kind of like horses and BIG mansions where in the past. I say let them do what they want with their own money but make them PAY TAXES and pay for their facilities. End all special deals. This also includes PAYING college kids for playing too. The colleges and PRO teams make million off the free work of young men and women playing sports. End the FREE minor league deal the NFL and NBA have currently.
 
Im wondering, if your grandchildren play sports, and use that sport to go to college and get an education, and have great careers, will you then complain about sports?
 
John M: None of my grand children currently play sports of any kind above pickup games. My grand kids all have education funds ( parent and grand parent funded) that where started when they where born. They can go to any reasonable college without staggering costs. So your point should never be an issue.

My grand kids and kids all are/where good students. The current high school level ones are in the top few of each class. So they should have academic help that they will earn with good grades. I think them NOT playing sports has enabled them to focus on their studies and have good grades. THAT is what SCHOOL is supposed to be about. The older one that is a junior now is taking college level classes as she is finishing high school. She should have most of her freshman classes done when she graduates from high school. Her older cousins have done much the same. Education is not a GAME in this family it is more like a job, you work at doing it well.
 
JD.....home run !!. Sorry, I just had to use a sports analogy. Many, many, many of the problems in our society do not get solved....because they do not get dicussed....because all we care about and talk about are sports (including my previous addiction to auto racing). Your example of Cascade sports facilities is perfect. Plenty of $$$$ for sports facilities, but very little for actual education. While obsessing over the Cubs vs. whomever or Bears vs. Packers or Hawkeyes vs. Badgers......Cascade's downtown has turned into something identical downtown Tijuana......but who cares....we're going to State !!
In local Milwaukee news this week....a back bencher for the Milwaukee Bucks was just awarded a 4yr. $44,000,000.00 contract....and when he did an interview, he could not put together a full, coherent sentence.

Several years ago, I attended a university seminar on labor, migration, joblessness etc. The subject of joblessness in Milwaukee was discussed at length. At the time there was over 50% joblessness rate among working age inner city men. At the same time, it was mentioned that dairy farmers in Wisconsin were begging for a steady flow of Hispanic immigrants to fill jobs. I asked why the Milwaukee men out of work could not be attracted and trained to fill these jobs without importing foreign workers. The learned Phd moderator and author of world-renowned labor studies stated; "there are major aspirational issues with the inner city young men, that will not allow them to perform the kind of work necessary on a dairy farm". Translation.....if I can't play professional basketball, baseball or football like I see on TV.....I ain't leaving the house"
 
Tim S: We have several decorated service members that all came out of this little town's school system in the last 20 years. They are not honored in the high school. There is one kid that is pitching PRO baseball this year from this town. The whole town went nuts talking about how great that was. Really!!!!! We have men and women that are doing a lot harder things than throwing a BALL sixty some feet to another fellow and they get NOTHING said about them.

So when you need protected call the ball player or if your sick and need surgery call the ball player. That sounds silly but if you just look at what people get excited about you would think they value a ball player over their service men/women and or doctors. Which is more important to this country or town???? Sure is not the ball player.
 
As the late Paul Harvey said, "The only way to create wealth is to take raw materials and make a product". I don't believe professional sports qualifies. It's distribution of wealth, kind of like the government.
 
John M why does my response not surprise you??? Is it because I am practicing what I preach??? My first wife and I made darn sure our kids got an education and more. They have in turn done the same with their kids.

I see many parents hauling little Johnny and Susie all over the place playing soccer or foot ball but those same parents will not spend that same amount of time making sure their kids are learning anything. Many feel that is the schools/teachers JOB not theirs. Those same parents will spend hours teaching and supporting SPORTS to their kids.

I am not against sports themselves. I just think they need to be kept in the back ground not the forefront of peoples lives. I played basketball every Wed. night for years. We would play after the local JC meeting. Just pickup games with who ever showed up. My grand daughters love soft ball. They play at home and ride their bikes over to a neighbors place and have pickup games every week during the summer. The difference is how the game/sport is placed in your life. For too many watching sports is a major part of their weekly lives.
 
I went out for multiple sports in high school and we were actually state football champions my senior year. My son is a senior this year and he is out for sports. So please don't label me as anti-sports.
However, sometimes the money spent on sports goes over the top. The link is funny on two counts. One, the amount spent. Two, the fact that it immediately fell apart. I worked in this area for ten years, so I know how they experience football fever.
Texas excess
 
Because you didn't answer my question. If memory serves me correctly, you have 2 younger grandchildren, am I correct? If they wanted to play sports, and were successful because of sports, would you still object? Simple question....

I'm not trying to argumentative, just trying to understand your constant negativity about the rest of the world.
 
Yesterday I think it was on the Victory Garden the host said there are no more than 3% of our citizens farming anymore "and that's not necessarily a good thing". Sports have to be one of the outcomes as well as overly obese people. When I grew up playing in sports was out of the question, instead it was working on the FARM-- and I'm glad for it!
 
jd seller for president..just walked off of a job yesterday at ga football game..20 dollars an hour to take down espn stage..5 eighteen wheellers and two buses of eqipment on sod grass in the rain ...the county wouldnt give up one parking lot at 40 dollars a car,to set this stupid pre game predictions and drunk people on tv..... the east coast is getting pounded by rain...i helped on thursday set up..the educated people that organized this ,could not even order enough plywood,4 stacks of 3/4....to lay on the wet sod grass for the loaded down trucks to drive over...not enough wood , so when truck ran out of wood we had to go behind the truc an move to front .over and over again...when i went on game day to take down stage ,,,no were for workers to park ,its poring rain... i walked a long way to the job and was soaked...you cant make it to your car for break, a dry shirt, you just get to load the mess in the muddy sod...on thursday someone pushed a tower on to a worker and squashed her because of the plywood to sidewalk transition...one down....im lookin at sick unplanned mess ..thinking you want us to clean up there mess...i really needed the money...but i just walked off that joke....what a waste of money .....i could of built a heaven of a shop with that 3/4 plywood that will be thrown away....these are educators and gov. and could not even order enough wood to do the job...or have a place for the workers to park........JD SELLERS for president, hey JD did you see that show on public tv the other night ANTS AND MAN e.o.wilson......he would make a good president also......amen.........dewy
 
JD, thanks for sticking your neck out with this post. You are 100% correct. In fact, I think you understate how bad it really is. Karl Marx once said that religion was the opiate of the people. I say that he is wrong, for sports have become the opiate of the people. Instead of focusing on what is wrong with our country, people spend amazing amount of time watching sports. Just think of how absolutely stupid it is to spend the amount that it costs to attend one of the games at a major stadium and then be sitting so far away that one can't even see the players decently.
 
John M I did not get your where talking/asking about my younger Grand kids. I have eight all together so far. The younger boys may be in sports later but I do not think they will be. IF they decide they want to play sports that is fine but that will be with them still getting all of their education FIRST. That does not mean "C" grades either. Neither of them have any reason to not get good grades and they will be expected to do so. If they have time and want to play sports then that is their parent's and their choice.

As for me being negative on the world in general??? Well I do not think I am totally negative but I am darn sure negative on the direction this country is going.

We are the leaders in very few areas anymore. I am trying to get across my view that we are not focusing on the important stuff and frittering away time/effort/money on things that do nothing to advance our way of life, standard of living, or mankind in general.

One of the big lack of focus areas is this modern sports culture. Many people can tell you the entire roster of their favorite sports team but can not tell you the owner of their employer or any of their elected official other than maybe the President.

So I am linking people's focus on sports as one of the many things that are causing a general demised of our society. Glorifying men that are not good fathers/husbands/citizen but are great ball players is just apart of the larger problem also. Look at the fellow that knocked his girl friend out on camera. He is fighting to be allowed back into the NFL. BAN HIM for life. He is thug to even think that he can hit a woman like that.
 
The definition of "muse", is to think about something carefully. Put an "a" in front of "muse" and you have "amuse". With the "a" in front it means the opposite, as "moral" or "amoral". Most people don't spend much time thinking carefully about anything, they just want to be amused. I agree, a lot of worthwhile potential productivity has been lost.
 
sports aren't terrible but some people do put to much emphasis on it. I played football never pressured by my parents got a scholarship that paid for school. If not for that it would have been on my own dime as my parents did not plan mo ey for that neither do a lot of kids. your grand kids are fortunate for their investments. our kids play sports, are in 4h and have animals to take care of daily, and homework to do every night. This keeps them busy but teaches them responsibility that they will need when they are adults. sports for me were a means to and end. it put me into a position to have a better life and when it was over it was over. I vary rarely watch sports now unless it is my kids playing as I'd rather be taking care of animals or working on tractors or chasing the wife around... it's all on the person and how they handle it.. if u have HBO watch the series trophy kids that will make u sick..
 
When I was based in Milwaukee, I would go to the dealership on Monday morning and the people would tell me how much fun they had on Sunday. When I asked what they did, they said that they went to the tavern and drank a lot of beer. I'd look at them and ask: "I get the beer part, but what did you do for fun?" Nobody ever gave me and answer.

We get 6 PBS channels on our antenna, so I watch a lot of DIY, How To, historical and educational shows. I also read a lot of books from the library. Sure beats watching sports.

Men have been athletes for thousands of years and in the end the games prove nothing; Man has not really improved for thousands of years playing sports, so why do they continue to do that?

At least auto racing produces a few features that sometimes get incorporated into the vehicles that you and I drive, which is more than can be said for mankind.
 
Yes....yes....I am watching the Green Bay/San Francisco game with my wife. She is a casual fan....I watch because she enjoys it and fixes great snacks for the game. A commercial came on during the first half for a FANTASY football website.....it showed the addict at a family reunion/picnic.....he was sitting at a table with four other people....eating his hamburger with one hand and doing his fantasy picks on his phone with his other hand !!! Never looking up to acknowledge the other people at the same table
 
The figure I hear cited is less than 2 percent of the population are active in farming. The far bigger threat to our way of life is more and more non-farmers see nothing wrong with synthetic food and some look at it is preferable as they (not me) think it will have a lesser impact on the environment. Some academics think synthetic food will be widely sold within 50 years. Stay tuned.
 
You're right about some of the stadiums cost the taxpayers money mostly the professional
stadiums but the games and other events bring in a huge amount of money from people going to the events and tax money like lodging and meals taxes plus hundreds of jobs.I have a friend that owns a good size restaurant in our college town he says the business he gets when there are football,basketball games,big name concerts days are what really keeps him in business
plus the arena and the football stadium were built from private donations.The county and city both take in thousands in sales,meals and lodging taxes when these events are going on.You posted a few days ago about towns dying out no town with a large university and major football program is going to have that problem.
 
I never participated in sports during high school beyond what was mandated for gym class. I built up a resentment for sports that took many years to go away. The gifted athletes were coddled endlessly while guys such as myself who were physically awkward were treated as outcasts. Fast forward a few decades I can enjoy the NFL to the extent that I will follow the regional team (Bills) with enthusiasm and watch a premiere matchup. Having time go by to let bad feeling not be the only factor on the merit of high school sports I will say it does help keep young people out of trouble although many people way over state this benefit. The other thing I would say that if your grandkids are inclined and demonstrate talent it might be good to have limited participation. Not having involvement in school sports will only greatly increase the likely hood of a student to be a social outcast which will have an impact on after school jobs and dating.
 
I somewhat agree about the over-emphasis on sports. Myself. I was a shop class geek. But, on the other hand, my daughter's boyfriend was class Valedictorian, played 4 years of soccer and marched in the band! does that make him bad? No, it did teach him how to manage time and pressure. Now, though, sports is over, and he's is in engineering college.
I'd like to know how much time and productivity is pizzed away by the "grownups" running around golf courses. Not to mention the millions of dollars spent on golf courses.
 
JD, Very well said. The same culture up here in Ohio/Pa. Similar incident happened last year in Stuebenville Ohio. and everybody has forgotten Penn State mess. It all part of our societies hedonistic lifestyle.
 
Below you complain about the taxpayers money that goes toward sports. If a poll was taken I bet that more folks would rather see there tax dollars go toward sports than all the government welfare programs for farmers and people that claim they are farming
 
How can they possibly get a good education if the requirements of the sports scholarship demands so much of their time for practice and trips to games? There is no free lunch!

I agree with JD Seller, no one should waste a minute of their lives watching professional sports or spend any taxpayer money on high school interscholastic sports.
 
I agree with JD on this. Too many people put too much emphasis on sports instead of academics. When they get out of school a lot of them can't get out of the rain by themselves. I also don't think taxpayers should have to pay for a millionaire's playpen. Georgia taxpayers are getting soaked for the Atlanta falcons and the Braves new stadium. Now the falcons owner is building a soccer stadium . Compliments of Dekalb county, Ga. Taxpayers. For my part, they could move to Mexico and Ga taxpayers would be better off. If taxpayers put money in, they should get a percentage of ticket sales until they recover our money with interest. Tommy
 
Yeh, bread and circuses. Family members taught at the University of Northern Iowa, Cedar Falls and tell stories about professors arguing for more money, better teaching conditions for the part timers,etc. but instead the biggies kept building bigger sports facilities to catch up? with the other two larger state schools. Guess what, larger sports programs is putting this smaller university up there (almost) with the other two schools. And the regents wisely chopped out several majors (small enrollment but doing the job)so that there was "less duplication" in the state schools. Two large sports arenas now make the U a magnet for highschool playoffs, rock concerts, etc. Whose kid wants to go to an also-ran rinky-dink school that their parents would not lust for tail gate parties at? Sports pays its own way....NOT. Leo
 
I agree with what you say in regard to the money and time many spend on sports. That said, I also believe there is a place for sports as it teaches things sorely lacking in much of society like teamwork, the value of working toward a goal and winning, etc. Beyond that, to waste millions on sports, and to make those that play into demigods because they can throw a ball, or whatever, is simply asinine.

As far as your friends daughter, and the guy who assaulted her, it sounds to me like he needed to be met in a dark alley somewhere and given an attitude adjustment by a REAL man. Might be bad to say that, but with guys like that, getting their tail kicked is about the only thing that they will understand.
 
I will agree that sports players are over paid, but sadly there's a market for them, I also don't agree all sports are bad, I like tractor pulling, NHRA drag racing and most of all Thoroughbred horse racing, as it's a big part of farming to, I don't remember the numbers but the industry provides jobs and tax revenue for this state. As I pointed out in the past, feed dealers, black smiths, hot walkers grooms, vets, people like me who worked on the farm were the horses were foaled and raised ect., all make a living, so is John Deer,, because NYRA has been buying JD tractors? I guess all sports provide jobs to someone.
 

Good Lord! I live in the deep deep South and Football is definitely King. I graduated from Auburn University and do follow them and will watch a game....if nothing else is going on. Those University of Alabama fans are the most rabid fans I have ever seen. Bite your head off , they will. :shock: I never did understand the people in my family that are big Alabama fans. They scream at the tv. I stopped going to any family events that involved a game..many years ago. I just couldn't take it. I did ask some of them that didn't go to college, if they donated money to the athletic program or supported the University in any way. No, they all said. Maniacs...all of them. :? Win or lose, it's just a freaking game. Maybe they bet money on the game or something...lol.
 
Anyone remember their high school football team's win/loss record your senior year? Unless you won a state championship or something, probably not.

How many of you have ever been asked to "go long" at a job interview? How about being asked for you free throw percentage or your batting average? Never?

Why are we spending so much time and money to perfect these statistics? They are meaningless.

There are some great things that can be learned playing a game as part of a team, but things are out of control. Things are actually to the point that real learning is suffering to make way for sweating.
 
"My grand kids and kids all are/where good students. The current high school level ones are in the top few of each class. So they should have academic help that they will earn with good grades. I think them NOT playing sports has enabled them to focus on their studies and have good grades. THAT is what SCHOOL is supposed to be about. The older one that is a junior now is taking college level classes as she is finishing high school. She should have most of her freshman classes done when she graduates from high school. Her older cousins have done much the same. Education is not a GAME in this family it is more like a job, you work at doing it well."

-THIS IS IT! THIS IS WHAT SCHOOL IS FOR! BRAVO!
 
For what it's worth: I went to a small town Texas high school. The football team received new uniforms and equip every year and the school scraped to spend money on facilities and travel expenses. Classes were cut short or cancelled for the sake of "Pep Rallies". There were also a memorable number of injuries that required hospital level care. Maybe they won 2 games a year?

Meanwhile, the Vo-Ag programs, which had the potential to teach actual job skills, languished with few tools, and little funding in some back building that was attached to the bus barn. The ag farm facilities (in an agricultural area) were laughable.
 
I can't help but shake my head sometimes about these threads about sports. I grew up on small dairy farm, and all the while pitching manure, forking silage, throwing bales, picking rocks, shoveling corn, and all the other tasks the go along with farming, I couldn't wait to step on a football field and play against a bunch of city kids. I enjoyed every minute of it.
 
JD Seller---I am on your team 100%. The guys who were in my class who were the stars in athletics have not excelled very far in this game of life. Most of those who were heroes in athletics couldn't get over not being a star when we entered the real world.
 
The only sport I pay any attention to is baseball, specially the Detroit Tigers. I listen to them on the radio while I do something productive. I really don't understand how anyone has three hours a day to watch a game. Life is too short. Then again I can't sit through a two hour movie without feeling the need to do something productive.
 
Exactly. A friend of mine said a lot of the kids in his class were all into sports. He said what difference does it make now being the "jock" in school back then?
 
I can't help but shake my head sometimes about these threads about sports. I grew up on small dairy farm, and all the while pitching manure, forking silage, throwing bales, picking rocks, shoveling corn, and all the other tasks the go along with farming, I couldn't wait to step on a football field and play against a bunch of city kids. I enjoyed every minute of it.
 
JD Seller -- I have to seriously question the validity of the story about the young lady and the high school quarterback, in this day and time there is no possibility that such action would have been overlooked even if the quarterback was a minority, unless all the officials were also minorities and I doubt that in a suburb or Austin. If somehow the story is true then your friend is not much of a man if he did not whip everyone from the principal to the quarterbacks father, what would getting a lawyer accomplish?
 
LAA the quarterback was a VERY dark minority. He was just about untouchable. My friend would have been in serious trouble for even "talking" to this under age minority.

My friend's lawyer told him they could push this to the County level and get the kid charged. The lawyer then told him the odds of a conviction where slim to none. The Football player's lawyer would destroy my friend's daughter's reputation in court. The players and cheerleaders would come forward and make it look like the daughter had been chasing the fellow for weeks.

My friend did what he thought was best for his daughter. That was getting her out of that school and area. She had a target on her back as soon as she did not go along with the football player.

All him pushing the issue would have done is made her life worse. If he had confronted the minor then the Father would have been the one in trouble.

You do not know what these Top athletes can get away with in these schools that are so sports oriented. Do you think that schools that spend MILLIONS on football programs will throw a winning player under the bus for a WHITE girl that just moved there?????? Never happen.
 
A high school classmate of mine died a couple of months back. He was a decent enough student, probably top 20% of the class, and he was the shortstop on our high school baseball team and one of 2 quarterbacks [the short one] on the football team. When he died, his family put his senior picture in the obituary in the paper, because he wanted to be remembered for being the star jock from 40+ years ago.

I've thought about that a lot. He was a good husband, a good father to two wonderful young ladies, a hard worker in the construction business until back problems forced him to retire...and the important thing to him, according to his family, was that folks remember him for the standout athlete he was 40+ years ago.

I didn't play football in high school. The coach was mad as hell at me for not trying out for the team, but I had an afternoon paper route after school my freshman year and worked in the garage for my dad after school after I gave up the paper route. I had folks counting on me, and I was learning to make a dollar and save up to buy my first car...and then came money for gas, car parts, and Prom. Sports were pretty much off my radar unless I had a date [and the only place her parents would allow her to go was to the football or basketball game].

For me, school was about learning...or at least about learning how to get good enough grades to get into college. Sports were a diversion from that. My brother ran track and cross country, and he wanted to be a basketball player but just didn't have enough talent. He never worked at the garage, and he once told a friend he was ashamed that his dad had to get his hands dirty to make a living.

As far as illogical fan allegiance goes, I have a nephew who is a fan of the University of Kentucky sports programs. Funny, but he never set foot on the UK campus except as a sports spectator. He attended Indiana University and Purdue...but he's a member of "Big Blue Nation," and spends big bucks every year attending games and buying their merchandise. The logic of all that escapes me. But then, I suppose all that college logo gear he buys pays someone's wages somewhere.
 
The whole scenario is basically accusing and indicting an entire community as being completly lacking in moral and ethical standards, any Lawyer who would give your friend the advice as stated above should be disbarred, this story is ludicrous and I do not believe it, or at least not as told and explained here. These events are not even remotely plausible as having taken place in Texas as described.
 
When is the last time anyone heard a college athlete after a game sound like he belonged somewhere above 9th grade?
I want to ask them if their brain hears the line of absolute bullpoo streaming from their mouth.
 
I enjoy watching sports and played football and baseball in HS but things were a lot different than they are now, Sports was an extracurricular activity, nowdays it seems like academics is the extracurricular.
There are some social skills that can be taught by participating in team sports but most of the time that is not taught and many coaches lack those skills themselves. Just this morning there was a news story about a basketball player at the local university that was arrested for burglary. That is becoming the normal.
For the most part I agree with JD, there is way too much tax money spent on sports. I read a few years ago that spending on sports VS academics is 2:1. The Highest paid government employee in Arkansas is the UofA football coach. The next 4 or 5 are also coaches. That is way lopsided.
 


All true (and sickening costs, IMHO). BUT... How much income tax does the city and state get from the multi millionaires who "work" there? And that includes the visiting teams, Ohio tax law requires payment of income tax on the visiting team. How much tax is generated from the stadium workers? What about the property taxes from the big homes of the big salary players and coaches, and all the economic activity they generate otherwise? Transportation, food service, TV and radio networks jobs and taxes? Not to mention the economic activity the construction of the stadium itself generated in labor, goods and services just for that... the billion $ went somewhere. What's the value of the athlete's contribution to the charitable functions around the area? Imagine pulling all that out of Cincinnati or other small market around the country. I think their economy would be devastated.

My point is that any discussion of the economics of sports has to include ALL the economic activity and not just cherry picking the stadium cost.

I do agree the direct costs and the social costs are obscene, but have to be balanced by the good it can do for the kids who might not get as much out of school otherwise. If you want to talk obscene, how about the Federal Title IX and the cost burden it puts on schools in the name of "equality". That's some sickening stuff all it's own.
 
(quoted from post at 22:25:27 10/04/15) ....... I really don't understand how anyone has three hours a day to watch a game. ...
Click to expand...

Agree 100% with ScoutB, JD and other commenters on sports. My 3 daughters and wife are all Big U of Michigan fans. I went there as well and enjoyed going to the games. Too busy now to bother with watching or attending. As for the comments about Alabama fans being rabid, I think Ohio State fans fall into the same category. Friend went to a game down there one year and got his car busted up all because he had Michigan license plates.

Troopers in Ohio love to pull over Michigan cars any time of year.

I like sports. I downhill ski. Will I watch skiing on TV? No. I play golf and used to play tennis. Will I watch them on TV? No. As for car racing: I can't see the enjoyment of sitting and watching cars go around and around on TV. In person? Yeah, I imagine it's exciting.

As for attending sporting events, I've been to a number of Detroit Red Wing or Detroit Piston games but never paid a nickel for any of it. Always went because I was taking customers or being taken by a supplier. Sat in the suites. Big deal. :roll: Was tired by the end of the night with a headache and still had to get up for work the next day. I just can't see wasting that kind of money and having nothing to show for it.

As for athletics in schools, I agree that we place way too much emphasis on them. When my youngest daughter (best athlete of the 3) went to HS years ago, coaches wanted her to play soccer and volleyball. She said no because she knew it would affect her academics. Graduated in the top 10 (of over 400).

I know a number of people who pushed their kids in sports because they were hoping for college scholarships. None of them were good enough to get offered one at a major college. Some got offers from smaller schools and none made the pros. The ones that got none didn't have the grades to get into a good school because they were focused on sports in HS. How'd that plan work for them?
 
Yep. Doctors were constantly telling us my oldest son was underweight. The first week my kid was on the wrestling team, the coach started in on him about losing weight to get down to the next lower weight class. His first week was his last week on the team.
 
John, have you not been paying attention here??? The overwhelming majority of posters have stated that high school sports did NOT help them to achieve their goals or success later in life - and most to the contrary.
After reading through this thread, I simply do not see how you could even make such a statement with a straight face.
 
Just a few comments of my own here......
How can right thinking people justify spending more money on sports than on education in schools? I suppose I just answered my own question there.....
Then there is the issue of sports. The very word is an oxymoron. There is nothing sporting about sports these days. Winning is the only thing that counts. Sporting behavior is out the door in favor of winning at any cost. That attitude is fostered throughout the high schools up into the professionals - if you can call them that.

I TOTALLY agree with JD that tax money should not be spent on stadiums and sports programs - especially ahead of academics.

And, as for the professionals, especially the ones with the long rap sheets, there is NO JUSTIFICATION for the money that they are paid - or for that matter the FOOLS that pay $100 for a ticket, $20 for parking, and $10 for a hot dog. I know that if I opened a hot dog stand, I would be hard pressed to get $2.00 for a hot dog let alone $10!!!!

however, all of this sports talk is beginning to cause my eyes to glaze over and get cloudy. Can we get back to farming and tractors now??? Please????????
 
LAA you can believe what you want. This is what I was told and I believe the events happened pretty well like I stated. You seem to think Texas is immune to this happening with a sports star getting away with just about anything. I think that Texas has a lot of this type of thing going on that we will never hear about. The whole darn state is high school foot ball crazy!!!!!

Where else in the country is there HIGH schools spending 50-60 Million dollars on football stadiums????? One has spent that and the building is now cracking the foundation an they can't use it. There are 8 more that where talked about that spent close to 20 million each. You can't tell me the star players at these schools could not get away with lots of stuff. Those school need to win at all costs to keep those fancy stadiums full.

As for the lawyer and the other comments. Would it be better for the girl to be grilled in the court room and be accused of being of low morals or get her out of the situation ASAP???? Look at how hard date rape is to prove and this was less serious offence. There would be zero DNA or any other evidence other than some bruises. Those would be hard to prove were caused by the player and not some thing else.

The player had one of the TOP law firms in Austin responding to my friend's lawyer. Think that kid had the money to pay for them???? Some booster was behind that. So he decided to not fight the battle that would be worth little when won.
 
This whole story is baloney, from the event itself to the claim that a ''booster'' paid for a cover-up legal defense, it is shameful to malign a community or region with senseless lies, if all of this took place as described and went as far as lawyers butting heads why was none of it reported in the news? I am well aware that Texas is in love with HS football and has been for decades, that has nothing to do with it, my doubts spring from my knowledge about the regional attitude towards the type of offense you describe. I know plenty of Texans and have worked with plenty more and have spent considerable time in Texas over the years, the average Texan would not stand by and allow what you describe to take place, some other male student would have intervened or a teacher or administrator, the other girls would have testified etc. no way would an episode such as this gone unpunished, much less covered up from the top down.
 
(quoted from post at 22:46:13 10/05/15) This whole story is baloney, from the event itself to the claim that a ''booster'' paid for a cover-up legal defense, it is shameful to malign a community or region with senseless lies, if all of this took place as described and went as far as lawyers butting heads why was none of it reported in the news? I am well aware that Texas is in love with HS football and has been for decades, that has nothing to do with it, my doubts spring from my knowledge about the regional attitude towards the type of offense you describe. I know plenty of Texans and have worked with plenty more and have spent considerable time in Texas over the years, the average Texan would not stand by and allow what you describe to take place, some other male student would have intervened or a teacher or administrator, the other girls would have testified etc. no way would an episode such as this gone unpunished, much less covered up from the top down.
Click to expand...

I agree.. something fishy.... here in Texas, the press is all over a story like this and they print first and verify the facts later if at all. It would have been on the new, the internet and everywhere else.

You all seen what happened when the nnalert boy took a simulated bomb clock to school here in Texas. Even external_link was involved.

Story is either bs or there is more to tell. But school cops are rabid and jump on any and all accusations here. Now days even a shoving match at the water fountain gets you put in cuffs, suspended and sent to alternative school for 6 weeks.
 
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