Starter issue?

[Bob Kellogg]

Yesterday I heard an odd sound from (I assume) the starter (Ford 641) when trying to start the tractor. It was sort of a grinding/scraping sound which startled me so I didn't notice if the engine was actually turning over or not. Tried again and got the same sound. A third time it started normally and did so several times during the day. (BTW, when I switched to 12 VDC the engine typically starts in about 0.5 seconds.) I removed the starter and I couldn't see anything damaged but I really didn't know what to look for. The wheel brakes don't work well so I have been shutting off the engine and using the braking effect of the engine. This means I use the starter more than normal which may put more wear and tear on it. I plan to have the brakes adjusted/replaced and the starter problem addressed but I want to run this by other Ford tractor folks first for comments and ideas.

 

[cole in mo]

The starter issue could be a few things, bad ring gear teeth, weak bendix, or starter bushings worn out not letting the bendix match up right with the ring gear.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Bad ring gear is my guess. Pull the starter again and take a closer look at the ring gear teeth.

 

[Tim in New York]

My IH did that for 30 years before I finally had it fixed. So don't panic immediately. Flipping the ring gear around took care of that problem. Got a new clutch while it was apart too.

Tim

 

[Millweld]

The ring gear has one tooth that is partially damaged from a mishap years ago. Tractor has started easily since then so I don't think that
tooth is a problem. Yesterday when I removed the starter all of teeth in the ring gear I could see were fine. Can't rotate the ring gear to
inspect all teeth w/o rotating the engine - right? How do you do that w/out the starter in place?

 

[SkipperII]

Put a socket on the front crank bolt, or put the PTO in gear and have someone turn it with a big crescent wrench. Sounds like a bad spot on the ring gear.

 

[Steve@Advance]

Sounds like the starter drive maybe getting some wear, or the spiral that spins it into the flywheel is sticky with dry grease.

Might take the starter back off, check the bushings for wear, clean everything up but don't grease or oil the spiral thread.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

A mechanic is not going to "see" anything wrong either. They will either tell you they see nothing wrong and do nothing, or will sell you an expensive starter and/or ring gear job depending on how hungry they are. If they're going to pull the final drives off the tractor to fix the breaks, it is probably not going to be much more effort to split it at the bell housing to do the ring gear.

It's going to be expen$ive.

Often times if you find a dinged tooth or three you can dress them up with a file through the starter hole. Smoothing them out and put a new Bendix on the starter is often enough to resolve any engagement problem.

 

[Millweld]

Thanks for all the comments. It seems everyone is in on the same page. I am forewarned now about the expen$e.

 

[Texasmark1]

I have a blue 641....aka '63 2000. Had starter problems and had it repaired several times. Finally, at around 3700 original hours, it got to the point that I had to get out a hammer and smack it the instant I hit the switch. Best I could figure the rear armature shaft was worn to the point that even with new bearings and oil impregnated bushings, the armature could touch the case and short out....hitting with the hammer made it "hop" and once rolling it would go ahead and start.

Just figured that sooner or later it's time for a new one. Got a new Lucas from England for a very reasonable price and that was 20ish years ago, still working great. Good ole www strikes again.

 

[Millweld]

I have an over running clutch which I must remove to crank the pto. How do I remove it? There is a screw which I removed and the clutch would pull off about 1/4" but that is all. See pic. What next?

 

[Repairman60]

The slip clutch I am use to has 2 screws and a drive pin through the tractor pto shaft. Remove both screws drive the pin out.

 

[Millweld]

The zerk fitting covered the 2nd hole so I removed it and drove the roll pin out. Now I am suppose to rotate the PTO shaft and observe the ring gear rotating, correct? I assume the engine will turn over in this process so I should be in 3rd gear and remove spark plugs Correct? I expect a lot of torque will be required for this. I don't want to damage the splines on the PTO shaft. Any recommendations? I'm a newby at this so I appreciate your patience.

 

[FarmingEngineer]

You will want the tractor in neutral, with the PTO engaged. This will connect the PTO to the engine, but keep the tractor from moving. Remove the spark plugs and then turn the PTO shaft. With the plugs removed it shouldn't take very much to make the engine turn. Probably safest to have the brakes set or wheels blocked so it can't roll. Not sure how level it is where you are working.

 

[Millweld]

Thanks, FM. That sounds clear and easy(fingers crossed). Rolling won't be a problem. Tractor is in barn.

 

[Hdonly]

My 651 starter was grinding and not engaging. Replaces the bendix and all was well again.

 

[Millweld]

I rotated the ring gear and found maybe a third of the teeth looked like those in the pic. Would you guys replace ring gear? So far it has started normally since the initial problem.

 

[Hdonly]

I'm confused. Whose starting problem are we discussing? Bob Kellogg or Millweld?

 

[Millweld]

I don't know how my name appeared instead of the moniker.