Starter push button

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

What happens if you touch the wire to ground instead of to the terminal?

Mark

No, Mark. you do not connect any wire to ground, How does that work? What excites power to the switch? See, this is exactly how incorrect, wrong, misinformation gets out there based on opinions, hear-say, bad advice, guesses, and not based on the actual facts.. This only confuses newbies and some oldies alike as well and perpetuates bad info getting out there.

Respectfully,
Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Jim.ME]

No, Mark. you do not connect any wire to ground, How does that work? What excites power to the switch? See, this is exactly how incorrect, wrong, misinformation gets out there based on opinions, hear-say, bad advice, guesses, and not based on the actual facts.. This only confuses newbies and some oldies alike as well and perpetuates bad info getting out there.

Respectfully,
Tim Daley (MI)

Tim,
An insulated base solenoid can be energized internally and needs and external ground to work. Taking the wire off the switch terminal and touching the wire to ground, will confirm it has an insulated base solenoid, if the starter engages. Just another diagnostic step that can be used.

It sounds like he has a 12 volt conversion and may well have a starter with a solenoid on it. It is possible, isn't it? Perhaps asking for a couple pictures of what he has and working from there may lessen the confusion all around. If in fact he has a solenoid and it works when wired, expounding on the original starting arrangement when that is not what the tractor has now, can confuse new and old alike.

We know things that are not as original can be done and work, sometimes people want to work with what they have, not revert back to what it had originally.

Note: By the way the parts book on the CNHi site shows a solenoid on the starter. It was grounded (one wire) by the push button switch on the transmission. In this case it looks like someone put a switch in the dash to do the same. Yes, that eliminated the safety system it originally had, but it will start the tractor.


Edited to add picture and note.

Respectfully,
Jim

 

[Jim.ME]

The top picture is close to what I have.

Please post a picture(s) of your starter and solenoid to help people understand what you have as it sounds like it has been modified from OEM.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Tim,
An insulated base solenoid can be energized internally and needs and external ground to work. Taking the wire off the switch terminal and touching the wire to ground, will confirm it has an insulated base solenoid, if the starter engages. Just another diagnostic step that can be used.

It sounds like he has a 12 volt conversion and may well have a starter with a solenoid on it. It is possible, isn't it? Perhaps asking for a couple pictures of what he has and working from there may lessen the confusion all around. If in fact he has a solenoid and it works when wired, expounding on the original starting arrangement when that is not what the tractor has now, can confuse new and old alike.

We know things that are not as original can be done and work, sometimes people want to work with what they have, not revert back to what it had originally.

Respectfully,
Jim

Yes Jimbo-
This is why he needs to tell us exactly what his entire wiring setup is. Knowing what and how the components are would be a good start for us to help and pictures always speak volumes. Even if he has an 8N Starter Motor with the RELAY/SOLENOID doesn't matter, wiring slightly different. On the Starter Solenoid back terminal is the wire to the switch. The POS BAT cable connects to the right side terminal on the solenoid as shown. This is the reconfigured method for using a 3-Wire Starter Motor & Relay for 12V with the 9N/2N. The ALT gets connected to the BALLAST RESISTOR as shown and is another reason why I stress the Ballast Resistor in all front mounts. If he can't post pix he can email them to me and will do it. The spitballing has got to stop.

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

my old 9n has a one wire push button to start the thing. I can't find a one wire but I can get a two fire. Does it matter which terminal I put the hot wire on? Do I have to ground the other?
Thanks guys for your help.

Dawg-
Can you post pictures? That would be a big help for us. If you can't post yet, email me and I will post them for you. Send them each as attachments, not all in your main message body, and in jpg or gif format. Take good close ups of the whole wiring system.

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Jim.ME]

Yes Jimbo-
This is why he needs to tell us exactly what his entire wiring setup is. Knowing what and how the components are would be a good start for us to help and pictures always speak volumes. Even if he has an 8N Starter Motor with the RELAY/SOLENOID doesn't matter, wiring slightly different. On the Starter Solenoid back terminal is the wire to the switch. The POS BAT cable connects to the right side terminal on the solenoid as shown. This is the reconfigured method for using a 3-Wire Starter Motor & Relay for 12V with the 9N/2N. The ALT gets connected to the BALLAST RESISTOR as shown and is another reason why I stress the Ballast Resistor in all front mounts. If he can't post pix he can email them to me and will do it. The spitballing has got to stop.

Tim Daley (MI)

Timmie-

In reading what he has posted, he has told us:

It is a 12-volt conversion with an alternator. It has a one wire starter button in the dash with a wire going to the solenoid. It starts if the wire and terminal are held together. The starter button is broken, and he is looking for a replacement. If the problem is just the failing switch, does he need to rewire the entire tractor?

Mark's suggestion of grounding the wire to confirm the solenoid is an insulated base is a check to see that a one-terminal grounding switch (or a two-terminal switch (with one terminal being run to ground) would be correct for his application.

Reading his posts and using the info he has posted, who is spitballing?

 

[mhb@ufe]

There are many unknowns here but if

No, Mark. you do not connect any wire to ground, How does that work? What excites power to the switch? See, this is exactly how incorrect, wrong, misinformation gets out there based on opinions, hear-say, bad advice, guesses, and not based on the actual facts.. This only confuses newbies and some oldies alike as well and perpetuates bad info getting out there.

Respectfully,
Tim Daley (MI)

If you read the original post, he has a single wire push button switch on the dash to start the tractor. The only way I know of that to work is if it is a grounding wire to activate a solenoid. Because we can't see what he has we have no way of knowing any more than what little information is given. One thing I'm sure of is it is not set up as original.

Mark

 

[Dawgbone]

This is the start button, with the one wire, and where it goes.

 

[Jim.ME]

This is the start button, with the one wire, and where it goes.

Be sure the transmission is in neutral. Do what Mark suggested and try grounding the wire from the starter button. With the exposed wire where it connects you don't even have to unhook it, just use a jumper wire to ground it to the chassis. A test light or voltmeter on the bare wire to chassis ground should show power, as well. Both are indicators of an insulated base solenoid.

 

[mhb@ufe]

This is the start button, with the one wire, and where it goes.

That has to be a grounding switch as I first stated. The solenoid and switch were added by whom ever did the conversion and it bypasses the safety switch that would only allow starting the tractor in neutral.

 

[Dawgbone]

So, I can't find a one wire start button or horn button. Everything is two wire which is ok. I can install just like this one. I'm assuming I can use either terminal for hot. I can even run a ground wire and I should.

 

[wore out]

This is the start button, with the one wire, and where it goes.

Looks like your SSB-3 switch is OK but the wire to it is damaged.

Easy enough to run a new wire from the starter solenoid with a "bullet connector" on the pushbutton switch end.

DISCLAIMER, your tractor has a modified starting system and the transmission-top safety neutral start has been "abandoned in place".

It is up to you how you repair this, but be aware of what's been done and proceed at your own risk.

 

[wore out]

So, I can't find a one wire start button or horn button. Everything is two wire which is ok. I can install just like this one. I'm assuming I can use either terminal for hot. I can even run a ground wire and I should.

As I said, GOOGLE "Standard SSB-3", ALL sorts of places selling them, and MANY local autoparts stores would be able to have one overnite that will pop right into the existing bracket and accept the style of connector that is already there, so WHY rewire anything?

On the other hand. as I just wrote, is there something wrong with the actual switch, or just the wire going to it?

Connector on back of pushbutton switch.

Matching wire terminal.

 

[Jim.ME]

So, I can't find a one wire start button or horn button. Everything is two wire which is ok. I can install just like this one. I'm assuming I can use either terminal for hot. I can even run a ground wire and I should.

As noted, the safety start feature has been bypassed.

If you use a two-terminal switch, it will not be internally grounded like your current switch. On a two-terminal switch, one terminal gets the existing wire from the solenoid, the other terminal needs a new wire run to ground.

 

[Duner Wi]

EBAY, search push button starter switch, $7.95 plus tax delivered. Search 1940 Ford starter button. Ford Cars used a grounding starter button for many years, that is what you have y the looks of things.

 

[mhb@ufe]

So, I can't find a one wire start button or horn button. Everything is two wire which is ok. I can install just like this one. I'm assuming I can use either terminal for hot. I can even run a ground wire and I should.

It doesn't matter which terminal you connect the wires to. Just one to the solenoid and one to ground. It would be better to rewire it to use the safety switch so it only starts with the transmission in neutral but it's your tractor.

Mark

 

[Dawgbone]

Thanks everybody for your help..

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Timmie-

In reading what he has posted, he has told us:

It is a 12-volt conversion with an alternator. It has a one wire starter button in the dash with a wire going to the solenoid. It starts if the wire and terminal are held together. The starter button is broken, and he is looking for a replacement. If the problem is just the failing switch, does he need to rewire the entire tractor?

Mark's suggestion of grounding the wire to confirm the solenoid is an insulated base is a check to see that a one-terminal grounding switch (or a two-terminal switch (with one terminal being run to ground) would be correct for his application.

Reading his posts and using the info he has posted, who is spitballing?

I gave you guys the correct information and so can and will do whatever the he!! you want.

TPD