Stealth 12v conversion w/ 6v generator

[brantbatson]

I need help with wiring harness for a stealth 12v conversion w/ 6v generator and voltage regulator.

Please bare with me, I just purchased my first tractor (my grandpa's) and this is my first post on here. I purchased his old 1950 8N with side mount distributor that has been sitting for 15 years since he passed away. I'm in the process of rebuilding carb and replacing damaged parts as well as all the basics: fluids, belt, plugs, wiring harness, hoses, points, condenser, rotor, distributor cap and dust cover.

It was missing the battery but at first glance I thought it was still 6v since it had the original generator. Then I noticed it had the 12v to 6v resistor mounted next to the starter. My uncle is a shade tree mechanic and I know he's tinkered with it in the past so I thought maybe he had tried to rig it to work on 12v. He said my grandpa purchased the tractor with the conversion already done so we don't have any of the background info. I'm not sure if the generator has been rewound for 12v or if they have the voltage regulator adjusted so that it (slowly) charges the the 12v battery. Are there any tests I can run prior to getting it started to determine how exactly they did the conversion? Here is what I know:

-Has a Wilson 8N10001 6v generator (not sure if it was rebuilt for 12v but casing states 6v)
-It has 12v headlamps
-Round can coil (going to pull it off tonight and see if I can read any of the writing under paint)
-Voltage regulator is Delco Relay and had '55 Olds painted on the side (I'm guessing it's a 12v?)
-Ammeter was disconnected
-Wire from coil to distributor is "dist" which means positive ground, right?

I've included pictures of what it looks like right now with the new wiring harness "almost installed." The old wiring was in really bad shape so I had already ordered a new 6v wiring harness. It's my understanding it will work fine since it's a heavier guage wire, right? Does anyone have a wiring diagram for this type of setup? I couldn't find one anywhere online. I'm having problems with the resistor wiring, the starter solenoid, terminal block, and ammeter. Should I even bother with the ammeter? Should I scrap it and just do a single wire alternator 12v conversion? Any other thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give!

 

[Den N Ms]

Brantbatson,You can do what ever you want 6 volt or 12 volt you decide, it's your tractor.But I would bet that is still a 6 volt generator.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" I'm not sure if the generator has been rewound for 12v or if they have the voltage regulator adjusted so that it (slowly) charges the the 12v battery."

It's either a 6v generator or 12 v generator. You can't charge a 12v battery w/ a 6v generator by adjusting the v/r.

IIRC, 1955 was the last year for 6v for Oldsmobile. But then, I do have CRS.

Get it running & see if it's putting out 6v or 12v.

Google "wiring diagrams JMOR" to find the one that fits your tractor.
75 Tips

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 19:35:38 03/22/16) " I'm not sure if the generator has been rewound for 12v or if they have the voltage regulator adjusted so that it (slowly) charges the the 12v battery."

It's either a 6v generator or 12 v generator. You can't charge a 12v battery w/ a 6v generator by adjusting the v/r.

IIRC, 1955 was the last year for 6v for Oldsmobile. But then, I do have CRS.

Get it running & see if it's putting out 6v or 12v.

Google "wiring diagrams JMOR" to find the one that fits your tractor.
75 Tips

RS gotcha! According to Motor's manual, 1953 Olds went to 12v.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

That's not CRS....it's CRAFT!

So who went to 12v in 56? Chevy?

 

[HFJ]

Should I even bother with the ammeter? Should I scrap it and just do a single wire alternator 12v conversion?

amps are amps, no need to scrap the meter. my 47 2N runs happily with a single wire 12 volt alternator and the factory ammeter.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 21:36:31 03/22/16) That's not CRS....it's CRAFT!

So who went to 12v in 56? Chevy?

hevy '55, Ford '56.

 

[Royse]

"Get it running & see if it's putting out 6v or 12v."

Better explanation may be required for this one.

 

[Duner Wi]

You have 12 volt headlights,
Regulator says 55 Olds. (12 volt neg)
You have dropping resister by starter.
Those 3 things to me are pointing to 12 volt neg system
Install a battery (neg to ground) and turn head lights on. Ampmeter show charge or discharge. If shows discharge that is a good hint it is wired neg to ground.
Dist side of coil? This can be verified later with a lead pencil to see how the spark travels across/thru the lead pencil lead.
I just did a search and see cgfordparts sells 12 volts field coils for 6 volts Ford cars. By the part # the field coils are 1956 ford . First year for 12 volts in Ford/Mercury cars. I myself don't like one wire alternators.
3 wire alternator with remote sense wire placed where the factory thought was best will be the best. Improperly placed remote sense wire works
but really looks sub standard.







I

 

[kylemorley]

Seems likely to me.

You can get 12V out of a 6V generator just by replacing the 6V regulator with a 12V one, as long as you don't try to take too much electricity from it or run the tractor too slow. You can also have a 6V generator rewound for 12V. So there is no telling what has been done to yours, if anything.

Ignore the generator and get the thing running!

 

[1951 8N]

Please bare with me

I don't really think that anyone here wants to actually "BARE" with you! :mrgreen: :lol:

 

[tractorguy2]

The old farmers around here like to throw in a 12 volt battery and forget the charging system. They use a battery charger.
I call them "farmer converted"

 

[W_B]

(quoted from post at 16:19:28 03/23/16)

You can get 12V out of a 6V generator just by replacing the 6V regulator with a 12V one, as long as you don't try to take too much electricity from it or run the tractor too slow.

Can someone (that really knows) tell me how you can charge a 12V battery with the output from a 6V generator that hasn't been modified? Seems that to charge the 12V battery you need in excess of 12V and not the lower voltage of that a 6V generator will put out. Or is someone full of malarkey?

 

[Ken(Ark)]

(quoted from post at 18:30:07 03/22/16) Brantbatson,You can do what ever you want 6 volt or 12 volt you decide, it's your tractor.But I would bet that is still a 6 volt generator.

I don't know about this Genny in question . I have a few 12v genny's somewhere . Ford used 12v genny's from 56 to about 65 in autos . my 68 3000 came with a 12v Genny so no good guess as to the true origin is ???

 

[JMOR]

No guessing here, but if he posts some good pictures & measures the field resistance (accurately), I might be able to tell what he has.

 

[brantbatson]

Thanks everyone. I just realized the pictures didn't post for some reason. Let's try this again...

 

[brantbatson]

Finally figure out how to post pictures! I reduced the size to under 300k. If anyone needs a better picture I can send you the higher resolution.

 

[JMOR]

Based on what I see, I suspect it is a standard 8N10001 6v generator. I would think that re-builder would have removed the 6v tag if he converted it to 12v, but who knows? A very good indicator is the Field resistance. Disconnect wires from generator ARM and Field terminals & measure resistance between those two terminals on generator. First touch both meter probes together to see that meter reads zero & if not save whatever reading it shows. "Typically" a 6v field is about 2 to 4 Ohms and 12v will be about twice, or 4 to 8 Ohms. Factory 8N10001 was 3.2 to 3.8 Ohms.
If yours turns out to be 6v, connected to a 12v VR, then it will likely still charge a 12v battery, at least for a little while. Problem is heat. Applying 12v to a 6v field coil will produce twice the current & 4 times the heat, so that is really tough on insulation! Heat problem is further aggravated by armature current at 12v when trying to charge a nearly dead battery. The 8N10001 generator (unregulated) is fully capable of more voltage unloaded than needed (~ 18v or more), but the heat is very bad news for longevity.

 

[brantbatson]

Thanks JMOR! I'll try that tonight. So what you're saying is for a long term solution I really should either make the switch back to all 6v or go ahead and do a true 12v conversion with an alternator?

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 14:57:42 03/24/16)
Thanks JMOR! I'll try that tonight. So what you're saying is for a long term solution I really should either make the switch back to all 6v or go ahead and do a true 12v conversion with an alternator?

nless that generator has actually been converted. If it has not & you want long term reliability, yes.