Steering Problem '47 8N

[JDiehl]

I have a 1947 Ford 8N that I picked up to help take care of my 10
acres. I haven"t driven a tractor in some time.

Full disclosure . . . I flipped the tractor. Ugh. At first it seemed the
main issues were a bent steering wheel, a smashed up hood, the
radiator was destroyed.

So I ordered the parts, tore it down, replaced everything necessary.
Drained all the fluids and replaced them just to be cautious.

The tractor started right up like a dream. Drove like it did the day I
brought it home. Steering everything seemed fine.

And then SNAP . . . The steering shaft had been stressed and
broke down inside the cover. Up until it broke it drove perfectly
fine. I know because I was paying pretty close attention to
everything making sure it was all in good standing.

So I ordered a new Steering Shaft. Tore it down and pulled the
sector shaft. Slipped out the old steering shaft. Centered the new
steering shaft. Slid in the sector shaft. Everything seems to line up
fine. Fill the Steering box with SAE 90 and put it all back together.

Now I"m driving it, and if I turn to the right everything is perfectly
fine. However if I turn to the left it is very hard to turn. You can
hear it seem to bind up and squeek sometimes. Turning back to
center is the same it is tough and then kind of gives into the
center and again turns just fine to the right.

I haven"t driven it to much. I know that isn"t right. It was fine up
until I changed that steering shaft even with the one that broke.

Any help or advice would be helpful.

 

[souNdguy]

turning hard to one side is generally thrust bearings.

did you repalce them? with good metal ones?

not those stupid plastic ones?

did you set thrust preload with the shim stack?

are you getting the same # turns full right and left.. if not you are a tooth off on the sector gears and or ballnut.

does the steering wheel screw out or into the steering column? if so.. deffinately thrust issue.

 

[Charner]

Could be a loose bearing or piece of metal lodged on one of the gears.

 

[JDiehl]

(quoted from post at 02:30:52 06/26/13) turning hard to one side is generally thrust bearings.

did you repalce them? with good metal ones?

not those stupid plastic ones?

did you set thrust preload with the shim stack?

are you getting the same # turns full right and left.. if not you are a tooth off on the sector gears and or ballnut.

does the steering wheel screw out or into the steering column? if so.. deffinately thrust issue.

Thrust bearings? That is not mentioned in the FO4 book. There are a couple of roller bearings. Both were in great shape, I had one new one and replaced the one at the bottom but neither looked like it was needed. (good metal ones)

Thrust preload? No clue what that means. I did have a shim stack. No clue what thrust preload means though.

I am not getting the same number of turns. It is way to hard to go very far to the left and I can turn much easier and tighter to the right. I don't see how I can be off a gear I slid it out and slid it back in. The nut was centered. How do you tell if you are off?

I'll double check on the screwing in or out. although I don't really know how to tell that. I can't really drive, steer and carefully look at the steering cover. But I'll see.

 

[JDiehl]

Well it does seem to screw into and out of the steering cover when I turn the wheel. Although I still don't know what the thrust bearings are looking through all the diagrams in the FO4 manual.

It was hard to really test it. It ran fine and now suddenly it won't start. I noticed the front of the engine has antifreeze splashed about and I don't know where it's coming from. Not much, and the radiator is full but the tractor is completely dead, turns over but won't fire.

I have a feeling that a city boy should not own a tractor. I think I wasted a lot of money.

 

[JCinKY]

(quoted from post at 19:03:54 06/25/13)

(quoted from post at 02:30:52 06/26/13) turning hard to one side is generally thrust bearings.

did you repalce them? with good metal ones?

not those stupid plastic ones?

did you set thrust preload with the shim stack?

are you getting the same # turns full right and left.. if not you are a tooth off on the sector gears and or ballnut.

does the steering wheel screw out or into the steering column? if so.. deffinately thrust issue.

Thrust bearings? That is not mentioned in the FO4 book. There are a couple of roller bearings. Both were in great shape, I had one new one and replaced the one at the bottom but neither looked like it was needed. (good metal ones)

Thrust preload? No clue what that means. I did have a shim stack. No clue what thrust preload means though.

I am not getting the same number of turns. It is way to hard to go very far to the left and I can turn much easier and tighter to the right. I don't see how I can be off a gear I slid it out and slid it back in. The nut was centered. How do you tell if you are off?

I'll double check on the screwing in or out. although I don't really know how to tell that. I can't really drive, steer and carefully look at the steering cover. But I'll see.

Those are your thrust bearings. Little taper roller bearing to keep everything lined up.

Preload is the amount of static force on a bearing. When you honk down on the steering tube assembly to attach it to the box, you are applying preload, or force, on your taper bearings. Too tight, add shims as needed. Too loose, remove shims as needed.

Having more turns on one side versus the other means you are a tooth off on the sector or ball nut. Ball nut and one sector may be marked for alignment.

Checking for steering wheel screwing in or out...ever thing to park it and jack the front end up? Pretty easy to check it.

 

[JDiehl]

Okay so I did a search. Looks like the Thrust Bearings are what the FO4 calls the Roller Bearing part number 3571. Both of these looked in great shape and I replaced the bottom one that the shaft sits on. With the metal ones. These are just round with bearings around it. I don't understand how that could cause the issue.

 

[JDiehl]

Those are your thrust bearings. Little taper roller bearing to keep everything lined up.

Preload is the amount of static force on a bearing. When you honk down on the steering tube assembly to attach it to the box, you are applying preload, or force, on your taper bearings. Too tight, add shims as needed. Too loose, remove shims as needed.

Having more turns on one side versus the other means you are a tooth off on the sector or ball nut. Ball nut and one sector may be marked for alignment.

Checking for steering wheel screwing in or out...ever thing to park it and jack the front end up? Pretty easy to check it.

Okay so it's not the thrust bearings even though it is screwing in and out?

If I remember right I may have a bit too much preload, but I can turn fine to the right and I didn't have to crank that hard to get it tight so I think I'm about right.

I guess I can be off a tooth. I pulled it out and put it right back in the way it was. I couldn't get the steering linkages apart so i didn't really have any choice as to alignment it's stuck where it is.

The FO4 book mentions adjusting the Sector Mesh for backlash? It basically just says to turn the Sector Shaft Housing either clockwise or counter-clockwise. I may have turned this but I thought it was just a housing I didn't see how that would adjust anything. Am I missing anything there as well?

 

[JCinKY]

If you have the new style box it is easily adjustable. At the end of each sector there should be a set screw and lock nut.

Loosen the lock nut. Screwing the set screw in moves the sector into the ball nut. Thus increasing the gear mesh, reducing steering play. Out does just the opposite.

If you screw it in too tight, the gear mesh is too great and you get binding. This can cause your symptom but it is usually equal on both side as both sectors are meshed with the ball nut at all times. Your sounds like your off a tooth and bottoming out when trying to turn left.

As a start, get them both screws in or out the same and see what you get. Do you currently have any play in the steering?

F04 covers adjusting the steering.

 

[JDiehl]

Well I definitely don"t have the new style. It"s a 1947, serial number
15,992. One of the first 8N"s off the line and mostly original. I"ve
replaced more parts since I flipped it than were ever replaced before
I had it.

It doesn"t really have play, maybe a little, not a lot. for a 47 not bad
at all. But the book just keeps talking about screwing in the
housing, not a screw that"s what is confusing.

You are probably right about the tooth being off. If I can get it
started again I"ll strip it down and see, but since it just stopped
running oddly enough I"ll probably wait to see if fixing the steering
is even worth it. Leaking antifreeze out of unknown holes in the
engine is not a good sign.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[souNdguy]

sorry.. you are on your own. no more help from me.

i've read over the replies to this thread and you are REPORTING symptoms of problems and waving your hand and saying you don't think that's it.

good luck on the machine. it will need it.

 

[JCinKY]

(quoted from post at 21:00:07 06/25/13) Well I definitely don"t have the new style. It"s a 1947, serial number
15,992. One of the first 8N"s off the line and mostly original. I"ve
replaced more parts since I flipped it than were ever replaced before
I had it.

It doesn"t really have play, maybe a little, not a lot. for a 47 not bad
at all. But the book just keeps talking about screwing in the
housing, not a screw that"s what is confusing.

You are probably right about the tooth being off. If I can get it
started again I"ll strip it down and see, but since it just stopped
running oddly enough I"ll probably wait to see if fixing the steering
is even worth it. Leaking antifreeze out of unknown holes in the
engine is not a good sign.

Thanks for the replies.

It doesn't need to be a running, driving machine to do any of this...

Check the tooth alignment as stated and make sure you have equal travel in both left and right directions. Easy way is to jack the front end up, turn right, count turns of steering wheel until full stop. Then do the same turning left.

They should match very close in number of turns to full stop.

To adjust the early style box, you unbolt the sector and turn it clockwise to take up slop. There is a limit so, all the way clockwise is all you get.

Sounds like you are DEFINITELY a tooth off.