Still problems with Genny, update #1

[pdhntr]

With the help of the experts here, I found the overcharging problem. My Dad had hooked up the genny ground to the field connection on the VR.

While I was fixing that I rewired just about the entire system. Nice new wires and ends.

Started the thing up and no charge showing on the amp gauge. It pulses as you are using the starter, but when engine catches, the needle does not show any charge rate.

I shut it off and repolerized at least a dozen times. Even tried it while it was running. I just can't get it to charge.

To repolerize I momentarily shorted the bat to arm connections on the VR.

Am I repolerizing incorrectly? or is there something else I can check?

Thanks.

Almost forgot: '51 side mount, 6 v system, black rubber tires...........
Jim

 

[Dell (WA)]

Jim.......I told you re-polarize with yer engine OFF!!! now you done let the "smoke" outta yer V/R. You may need to replace yer squarecan voltage regulator.

And yes, polarize by "arc-spark" the side-by-side ARM and BAT terminals together with wide-blade screwdriver, engine OFF!!!

Describe "pulses" when you try to start. How much and what polarity??? Could be normal coil AMPS drain (-) interrupted by the distributor points (0.025) being opened by the distributor cam.

Iff'n yer seeing ampmeter discharge (-) you MUST see ampmeter charge (+) when engine is running about 1/3-throttle. Gennys don't charge at idle. .......Dell

 

[souNdguy]

if the vreg and genny are still good after being full fielded and polarized while running,.. the battery may simply be 'very well' charged, and the vreg is not calling for a charge.

do you have a negative deflection on the ammeter denoting discharge? have lamps you can test with?

try full fielding the genny again and see what you get.

post back.

soundguy

 

[pdhntr]

(quoted from post at 08:45:49 10/12/09) Jim.......I told you re-polarize with yer engine OFF!!! now you done let the "smoke" outta yer V/R. You may need to replace yer squarecan voltage regulator.

[color=blue:ee2ef71adb]This is what you told me[/color:ee2ef71adb], "Once you gitt'chur wiring straightened out, remember to re-polarize yer genny/V-R by "arc-sparking" the side-by-side BAT & ARM terminals. You can re-polarize as many times as it takes to feel warm and fuzzy ...er... charging."

I repolerized at least a dozen times with the engine off, and started it after each time and it wouldn't charge. So I wondered if I was doing it incorrectly as it wasn't specified. So I briefly tried repolerizing while it was running.

Describe "pulses" when you try to start. How much and what polarity??? Could be normal coil AMPS drain (-) interrupted by the distributor points (0.025) being opened by the distributor cam.

I believe that is exactly what I am seeing.

Iff'n yer seeing ampmeter discharge (-) you MUST see ampmeter charge (+) when engine is running about 1/3-throttle. Gennys don't charge at idle. .......Dell

I think the "discharge" I am seeing is the amps drain from coil as described above.

I have the VR I took off, and will check each against the other with my voltmeter to see if there is any damage. There was not any smoke though.

Thanks.

Jim

 

[pdhntr]

(quoted from post at 09:36:20 10/12/09) if the vreg and genny are still good after being full fielded and polarized while running,.. the battery may simply be 'very well' charged, and the vreg is not calling for a charge.

I considered that also, but figured after starting it at least a dozen times within a 20 minute period, I should see some charging.

do you have a negative deflection on the ammeter denoting discharge? have lamps you can test with?

I believe all I have on the ammeter is the coil as described above to Dell.

Do you mean turn on some lights? If so, no the lights are gone, but I could figure something out.

try full fielding the genny again and see what you get.

post back.

soundguy

If I understand you correctly, you want me to hook the genny ground to the field on the VR and see if it charges as it did before.

Is that correct?

Thanks Soundguy.

Jim

 

[Dell (WA)]

Jim......didn't you know ALL electrical stuff works on "smoke"??? You doubt? You let the smoke out and it quits working. (grin)......Dell

 

[souNdguy]

I wouldn't try to mess around up at the vr.. too hard to get to.. just ground the field tab right at the genny... does the same thing electrically..

soundguy

 

[pdhntr]

(quoted from post at 11:47:03 10/12/09) Jim......didn't you know ALL electrical stuff works on "smoke"??? You doubt? You let the smoke out and it quits working. (grin)......Dell

I don't doubt one bit.

I will try messing with it after work today and post back.

(the way this day is going, I shouldn't even touch it..............)

Thanks, Dell.

Jim

 

[BillM (OH)]

Last 2 ammeters I got from TSC were way off zero, but are directionally correct - start a -10 and go to -5 or so when running. Battery stays up indefinitely, so I just ignore the charge/discharge information. Must be from the land of almost right - only 10 amps off zero!

 

[Jimmyjack]

I have come across a reasonable place to purchase pressurized cans of smoke for VRs. I cant figure out how much smoke put back in.

 

[pdhntr]

UPDATE:

I pulled the new VR off and looked inside and the smoke was gone. When it left it took part of the little wire that looks like a fusable link with it.

I put the old VR back on and hooked everything up. Then repolarized it correctly I think. Started it and same thing. No charge. Yes I revved it up to make sure the genny would kick in.

I repeated the repolarize and start 5 or 6 times. The second to the last time I let the motor run for a minute or so and then revved it up to full throttle.

The needle went to DISCHARGE at 5 amps and as I throttled down it INCREASED its discharge rate to 10 amps (thats a -10 amps) and then snapped back to 0 as the motor idled down.

I repolarized again. Started it up and it repeated the above when I revved it up above half throttle.

I hooked up the ground to field as it was before and got an INCREASING charge rate up to 20 amps at full throttle. This is the condition I had to begin with.

1. So am I correct in believing the genny is still capable of charging?

2. If that is the case, is it possible the old VR is crap too?

Jim

 

[pdhntr]

I studied the FO-4 for quite a while and as near as I can figure, I am dealing with a shunt wound type generator (pg 50).

On page 51 (item 69) "WITH A LOW BATTERY AND A LOW OR ABSENT CHARGING RATE" it tells me to check for loose connections or defective leads, which I have done by replacing all connections and wires and checking them with my ohm meter and everything checks out OK.

Further, it tells me to momentarily ground the field terminal, and "if the generator output now comes up, CHECK FOR A LOW VOLTAGE SETTING, or for dirty or oxidized regulator contact points." (I cleaned the points before I reinstalled the VR). I grounded the field and the output came up.

Further on it says, "to check the cutout relay, since it might not be closing due to a HIGH VOLTAGE SETTING or an open shunt winding."

Does the LOW VOLTAGE SETTING have to do with the points that are normally closed, and the HIGH VOLTAGE SETTING have to do with the points that are normally open?

Should I be trying to adjust the tension on the springs in the VR?

Sorry this is getting so complicated but I want to figure this thing out. I want to keep this original if possible.

Jim