Stuck bolts!

[Copeland]

Hi, Everyone. I really, really need help. I am restoring a 1946 Farmall H. When I got the tractor, it had a seat from another brand on it. That seat was held on by a special metal bracket that was bolted to the deck. That other seat was broken badly, so I went to the salvage yard and got the correct seat. My problem is I got the old seat off easily enough, but the bracket that was holding it down has two 7/8 bolts that go through the bracket and into the deck - and I just can't get the bolts loose. I tried oceans of WD-40 and others similar, but the problem is the oil can't get down to the threads enough because of the bracket the bolts go through. I'll attach a picture so you can see what I mean. Heat also didn't work because the heat won't go far enough down the bolt because of that bracket. I can't just cut the bolts off because I need to use the same holes to put on the good seat. Help! ANY advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Jeff

 

[Bob]

Heat the ^%## out of 'em and let 'em cool and rap with an impact wrench.

Be prepared to drill them out or do the "weld a washer on what's left" trick if they DO break.

 

[David G]

I would heat them up red hot a couple times, then use impact on them.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Heat. Use an acetylene torch on just the bolt heads. You'll need to heat those bolt heads cherry red, then the bolts will come out. It shouldn't require much torque once you've got the bolts hot enough.

 

[Copeland]

My thanks to all three of you who suggested I try the heat. I already did some heat, but I didn't get the bolts "cherry hot" as one of you said. I'll try that again tomorrow and see if it works better. I just HAVE to get these bolts out of there! Thanks again. I really appreciate it! Jeff

 

[Bob]

Several heat and cooling cycles are GOOD, that will help break them loose.

But NEVER try to move them when hot. Yes, sometimes that may work and they may come out, but if they gall in place HOT it's almost like they get welded there.

MUCH better to let 'em cool to ambient, let 'rm shrink ad bit, and apply a little diesel fuel or other thin oil and hope a little soaks in, then put a wrench to 'em.
Extract

 

[TimV]

Stuck bolts are a common problem on most old equipment, so there's lots of experience out there for dealing with them. Use a good penetrating oil--WD-40's not up to the job. PB Blaster's my go-to, but Kroil or a number of others are also good. Spray it on generously, then use heat--you'll probably need an oxy-acetlyene unit as there's a lot of mass there to heat up and the standard little bernz-o-matic propane torch just doesn't put out enough heat. Once you've heated it and let it cool, put on an impact wrench and TIGHTEN it. Reverse the wrench and loosen it. Go back and forth a number of times, and if it doesn't start to come, repeat the cycle. A heavy wrench to minimize the amount of impact lost and a hammer can also be used, again going in both directions. You can also tap the head of the bolt, which can also help loosen the rust bond and start it moving. They WILL come out, and if the amount of force is used judiciously, they'll usually come out in one piece.

 

[SVcummins]

Heat the head red hot then put an ice cube or two on each head and let them cool they?ll almost screw out by hand

 

[moresmoke]

After a good heat cycle, if they don?t come loose, I would pound on them. Preferably an air hammer, if not then BFH and a punch. Several good whacks straight down.

 

[C.Amick]

Can you take a torch and cut the bracket off so that you can get some penetrating oil to the bolt threads? Got Kroil?

 

[Copeland]

Thanks again! These are all great suggestions. I can't wait for tomorrow morning so that I can give these all a try. You guys are the best! Thanks so much! If I get these bolts out, you'll all probably hear me yell THANKS from where you are! Jeff

 

[Janicholson]

You could drill under the bolt heads into the bracket with a 3/16 bit to create a hole to the threads. 2 per bolt. to allow juice to get there. I also recommend whacking the bracket front to back, and left to right with a B_Hammer to make it queasy. Jim

 

[matthies]

Take a large hammer and hit the heads of the bolts, that will shock the threads and even flatten the washer or bracket a bit to get penetrant in there. If you're afraid of messing up the heads, use a heavy shaft or another hammer to hit against. Give it your best shot you won't hurt anything.

 

[SVcummins]

When I worked at new Holland they were having problems with the the bores in the gears that bolted to the flywheels on swathers and skid loaders being made to deep for the length of bolts they were using and after a few years the bolts would finally shear and my job was to pull it all apart and get the broken bolts out of the flywheel and put new gears and bolts . I was having a heck of a time with one and old machinist just happened to be be there he said after you weld the nut on stick an ice cube right in the center and it will come out so I welded another nut on and this time tried the ice cube and that bolt was so loose it spun out without even a wrench hardly

 

[Charles in Aus.]

Faced with a similar problem before I used an arc welder to supply heat . Medium amps and a really fat rod , all I did was arc the rod onto the bolt head once and hold it there . The heat was applied directly to the bolt and not to the surrounding metal casing . I got it as hot as I could dare to , dull red , then let it cool overnight . Next morning a rattle gun wound it off easily . The expansion from heat crushes any corrosion in the socket , once cool the minute space this causes is enough to let it be loosened .
A freeze spray is available from plumbing suppliers or you can use canned air for cleaning keyboards , just invert the can so the contents comes out in liquid form , be careful not to give yourself frostbite .

 

[RusselAZ]

Use only a 6 pt impact socket. Let impact hit them some on the righty-tighty direction and then shift to lefty-outie, and back an forth. Before doing that though, I'll bet those bolts are about 2 inches long. If you can drill all the way through them with a drill in the area of 1/8 to 3/16 inch so you can get some penetrate to the threads on the other end is the idea. You will feel it when the drill breaks through the end of the bolt. Then you can use heat on them.

Using Kroil or brake fluid is my choice of penetrant. Center punch the bolt head and drill straight through them.

 

[CenTex Farmall]

Don't go too crazy on the hammering them idea. These guys mean something like a 2 lb hammer and not an 8lb sledge. The deck on that H is gray iron after all and you might be a big guy for all we know. Otherwise, plenty of good suggestions.

If all else fails or you twist the head of one or both of them off or end up have to cut them off, drilling out the rest is not really that big of a deal. It's actually easier to drill out a bigger bolt IMO than a smaller one. You start by drilling a pilot hole and then a step or two up to the root diameter of the bolt's thread size. Then you can pick out what's left of the bolt threads.

 

[rrlund]

I'd just about bet that if he did torch them off at the top of that plate,then weld a flat washer to them and a nut to the washer,they'd spin right out. That's a drastic step though. I'd try an impact wrench after heat.

 

[wjytexas]

Kroil might work

 

[Texasmark1]

Totally agree but first a good several day soaking with Kroil: (https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=kroil+penetrating+oil&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) Impact will do it when nothing else will, just size the torque to the job.

How many times have you (a person) had a stubborn fastener that you were trying to remove with say a box end wrench, it not budging, and you get a hammer and whack the end of the wrench a couple of times and the bolt breaks loose???????? Wasn't the hammer an impact tool?

Also impact sockets (HF sells them cheap and wrenches) are hexagon shaped and tempered steel so that you get good socket to bolt head connection with maximum contact area.

Couple of other tricks that have worked for me is tap the top of it a few times with an appropriately sized hammer-maul, and when connecting your impact, put it in the "tighten" position first with a few whacks, then reverse for removal. The process can break rust loose that starting in the reverse direction can't.....just remember sizing the tool impact for the job.

 

[Maddog3355]

You want to heat the metal around the bolts not the bolt head. Metal expands when hot. Them bolts will come out if you are patient which by looking at the bolt heads you are. Like others have said heat and penetrating oil are your friends. Good luck.

 

[MarkB_MI]

> You want to heat the metal around the bolts not the bolt head.

It doesn't work that way. The casting is a huge heat sink and it's nearly impossible to get it hot enough to make difference. Plus he doesn't have access to the casting in the first place.

Heating the bolt will break the bond between the bolt and casting. It works.

 

[the tractor vet]

Ah stuck bolts in cast iron . Well first off WD 40 is not a penetrating fluid and never was . P B Blaster is suppose to be (never had much luck with that) What i have used for the last 50 years is a product made by Zep chemical and it works , now will it work as soon as you spray it NO , but it will work . Since it is a 7/8th inch bolt how good are you at drilling and hitting dead center . To get action from the penetrating fluid from both ends i would try and drill down thru the center with a 3/16th drill bit and get fluid down to the bottom of the hole so that it will wick up the treads and some around the top to wick down . Heating really will not do much due to the deck cover sucking heat away like a heat sink . The only real way is if your a good enough welder to to cut the heads off get the bracket out of the way and start welding to the bolt and start a build up of weld as it will expand the bolt shank a little crushing the rust and as the bolt cools it shrinks . For a job like this i use a rod made by M G and i place a big nut around the bolt that i am tryen to get out and use the M G 600 and go to welding and as i weld down thru the nut i use a wrench on the nut and start backing the nut off as i build and you are sorta building a thread as you go and you can build as much as you like as the slag gets between the threads of the nut and you just keep on welding and turning till your happy , you allow to cool to the touch and back out the old bolt .
Oh BTW that rod is NOT for the faint of heart and pocket book . The last i bought was 340 bucks for 10#

 

[Copeland]

Hi, Everyone! First of all, I want to thank all of you for your great advice. Here is the update: I took the suggestions of several of you and heated the bolts until the heads were cherry red hot. Then I put a short metal collar around each bolt and filled them with ice so that the heads of the bolts would cool. I waited about ten minutes, banged about thirty times on each head with a 3 pound hammer, and they screwed out!!! It worked! So, I'm grateful as all heck to all of you who responded to my post. Y'all are the BEST! Thanks again! Jeff

 

[Phil9N3667]

Someone mentioned freezing the bolt. Loctite makes Freeze and Release that does pretty good, and there's CRC's Freeze Off.

 

[TimV]

Glad it worked. You'll get lots of practice in getting out stuck bolts if you spend much time wrenching on old tractors, but it's a useful skill to learn, and you had a decent set to work on--things get even more fun when they're at odd angles, difficult to access, half-melted, corroded, and other fun combinations! Lots of knowledge here, from many different backgrounds, and there's always something to learn here regardless of your skill level.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Great! Thanks for letting us know how it turned out.

 

[Charles in Aus.]

Ditto on that Mark , it's always good to see what worked , especially for the next time it happens .

 

[Hendrik]

Pun intended? LOL

 

[Gary Mitchell]

heh,,heh,,heh, gm

 

[CenTex Farmall]

Good to hear that it worked!