Stuck pin

[560Dennis]

Not a fan of quenching machine casting or forged parts with sharp corners , stress riser introduced yield cracks at corners
Heard of chilled iron , extremely hard grain structure and very brittle.
Your choice ! Let us know what happen?

 

[560Dennis]

Drill and tap for grease fitting . Drill to shaft . Put kerosene or penetrating oil in first then pump in grease . Heat it up ,will wick out after a few
trys get the rust dislodged. Maybe a couple of them on each side
Your choice

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

It might be worth your while to load it in the back of the pickup truck and take it to the local machine shop where they have a big press and big torches.

You do NOT want to get the pin red. You want to expand the hub AROUND the pin. Get everything red hot, and all you've done is make everything red hot. Everything is expanded and the pin is still stuck in the hub.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

That front idler could very well be chilled.

 

[govsux]

(quoted from post at 13:15:34 05/31/23) It might be worth your while to load it in the back of the pickup truck and take it to the local machine shop where they have a big press and big torches.

You do NOT want to get the pin red. You want to expand the hub AROUND the pin. Get everything red hot, and all you've done is make everything red hot. Everything is expanded and the pin is still stuck in the hub.

Makes sense. Putting the whole thing in some coals should heat up the hub first more than the pin.

 

[govsux]

(quoted from post at 14:14:23 05/31/23) That front idler could very well be chilled.

I have one of these [ see link ] but not sure how or what I'd press against. Maybe two trees? If anybody has an idea let me know. But I think I'll try the fire pit routine see how it goes first. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OQ3Y62/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This post was edited by govsux on 05/31/2023 at 06:52 pm.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Anybody else have trouble with this link? Coming
up as error on YT page

 

[govsux]

(quoted from post at 12:59:25 06/01/23) Anybody else have trouble with this link? Coming
up as error on YT page

you have to copy and paste but it works.

 

[560Dennis]

Suggest
Can you do a submerge soak that wheel assembly in kerosene,diesel ,penetrate oil or wd 40 for 24 hours before you heat it . Let the
kerosene creep into the rusty crust around the shaft . What i did with the mower . At least spray it on that area. The heat will will turn the
rust into pulverized grains resulting,instead of a solid mass the holding it now . The penetrating oils will burn creating a gas which expands
the rust solids in a form of dust that will crumble away as it breaks free.
I am sure the if you rotate the control arm after it cools with a lever that fits the job ( long bar or pipe. . Dont want to rotate when its it
Incandescent (red. It will bend. ) the rim need to secure as you rotate.

Ive lightly tapped on that area to introduce vibration with hammer . The vibrations loosen the rust . Dont have to hit it hard ,just hear the
metal ring.

Try the control arm rotation after the soak . It might not need to heat it. Just test it

 

[govsux]

(quoted from post at 18:20:51 06/01/23) Suggest
Can you do a submerge soak that wheel assembly in kerosene,diesel ,penetrate oil or wd 40 for 24 hours before you heat it . Let the
kerosene creep into the rusty crust around the shaft . What i did with the mower . At least spray it on that area. The heat will will turn the
rust into pulverized grains resulting,instead of a solid mass the holding it now . The penetrating oils will burn creating a gas which expands
the rust solids in a form of dust that will crumble away as it breaks free.
I am sure the if you rotate the control arm after it cools with a lever that fits the job ( long bar or pipe. . Dont want to rotate when its it
Incandescent (red. It will bend. ) the rim need to secure as you rotate.

Ive lightly tapped on that area to introduce vibration with hammer . The vibrations loosen the rust . Dont have to hit it hard ,just hear the
metal ring.

Try the control arm rotation after the soak . It might not need to heat it. Just test it

I sprayed then heck out of it PB Blaster so it will have been sitting all week with some of that. [ I don't have access during the week this thing is up at my cottage I go on the weekends ] I agree if it soaked long enough might not need heat I will try before that. I bought some supposedly even better stuff than PB Blaster will soak the heck out of the other side while I work on the first one. re-rotate... I really have no access to the shaft except the end. Both sides are still connected to the supports with the free spinning wheel captured in between. I have to be careful and not damage the wheel itself pounding it out so hoping one trick or another free's it up a lot.

 

[govsux]

(quoted from post at 18:20:51 06/01/23) Suggest
Can you do a submerge soak that wheel assembly in kerosene,diesel ,penetrate oil or wd 40 for 24 hours before you heat it . Let the
kerosene creep into the rusty crust around the shaft . What i did with the mower . At least spray it on that area. The heat will will turn the
rust into pulverized grains resulting,instead of a solid mass the holding it now . The penetrating oils will burn creating a gas which expands
the rust solids in a form of dust that will crumble away as it breaks free.
I am sure the if you rotate the control arm after it cools with a lever that fits the job ( long bar or pipe. . Dont want to rotate when its it
Incandescent (red. It will bend. ) the rim need to secure as you rotate.

Ive lightly tapped on that area to introduce vibration with hammer . The vibrations loosen the rust . Dont have to hit it hard ,just hear the
metal ring.

Try the control arm rotation after the soak . It might not need to heat it. Just test it

Come to think of it I see your point Could try and rotate one support from the other... good point. I sort of doubt it it's seized pretty darn good from decades of sitting but worth a try.


This post was edited by govsux on 06/01/2023 at 04:57 pm.

 

[560Dennis]

Good
Do you have an air chisel ? Put a sacrificial piece of metal over flat area of the control arm and vibrate it to get that penetration oil paths to permeate deep into
the bore of the shaft.
Example, similar to this one.
Thinking about the mounted frame on my the draft pitch of plow control about it took several trys but we got it . On that I didnt use the
charcoal heat , just the torch and I couldnt get the entire frame hot enough to break the corrosion the holding it because they were 2 feet
apart with common shaft.

So take your time youll get it .

I would encourage you to practice how your team will handle the wheel when it hot so you dont have inefficient wasted time because the
plan wasnt executed correctly for that part .

A lot of things to think about.

I had this thought also ,support the outside diameter of the wheel on something in three places ( furnace brick ) so there isnt any weight on
the control arm to bend it when is hot. Also have the control arm placed to observe the end thats away from the shaft . That way you can
locate it for faster operation of the breaking it loose from shaft when that process begins.

If you dig a pit , dont have any gravel near it , they stones will explode . Wear safety shields over your eyes.

Just some thoughts to make sure you can be successful.

 

[govsux]

(quoted from post at 13:43:54 06/02/23) Good
Do you have an air chisel ? Put a sacrificial piece of metal over flat area of the control arm and vibrate it to get that penetration oil paths to permeate deep into
the bore of the shaft.
Example, similar to this one.
Thinking about the mounted frame on my the draft pitch of plow control about it took several trys but we got it . On that I didnt use the
charcoal heat , just the torch and I couldnt get the entire frame hot enough to break the corrosion the holding it because they were 2 feet
apart with common shaft.

So take your time youll get it .

I would encourage you to practice how your team will handle the wheel when it hot so you dont have inefficient wasted time because the
plan wasnt executed correctly for that part .

A lot of things to think about.

I had this thought also ,support the outside diameter of the wheel on something in three places ( furnace brick ) so there isnt any weight on
the control arm to bend it when is hot. Also have the control arm placed to observe the end thats away from the shaft . That way you can
locate it for faster operation of the breaking it loose from shaft when that process begins.

If you dig a pit , dont have any gravel near it , they stones will explode . Wear safety shields over your eyes.

Just some thoughts to make sure you can be successful.

Excellent insights thanks you Dennis! Definitely will have a game plan if i do the fire pit idea. I do have a lot of brick pavers and leather gloves... some big crow bars to lift and move the wheel when it's hot. Unfortunately I was working on a project for client... slipped and fell while putting up roof trusses. Broke a rib. Stupid. I'm just not as agile at 58 years as I was when I was 20! Not sure how much heavy hitting I can do but I brought my 16 year old with me though and we are soaking then heck out of it overnight with penetrating oil. we whacked it with a 5 lbs sledge a few times just to try and develop a crack for the penetrating oil. Will try the air hammer tomorrow ... if that doesn't work good support and sledge without going to ape $hit on it. If that doesn't work it's BBQ time. Will keep y'all posted I appreciate the advice.

 

[govsux]

I also have this.. I don't have a good idea where I could use it though but could come up with something. if all else fails

This post was edited by govsux on 06/02/2023 at 06:34 pm.

 

[govsux]

got one side apart. Spinning one side support a bit first helped. Soaking for week too probably helped. But as predicted both the wheel pin / axel is shot and the worse yet the idler wheel is wore past the bushing. The other bushing let go and was just sitting inside the center. So... I can make a new pin / axle but i'm gonna have to find a shop that can bore me a new larger hole and machine me new bushing. Is the bushing typically made out of softer steel than the shaft and wheel so wears out first?? I can hardly wait to try and find a machine shop willing to take on such a small job. will take one heck of a large lathe to bore a new hole in the wheel. I could maybe weld in a new bushing but I doubt it would last. On the other hand this thing will get used very little so if anybody has any ideas on a fix feel free to chime in. ps in th pics you can see one bushing is still in place but very thing.. the other isn't where it should be and you can see I'm pointing at a wore out ob-long hole mush too big for a stock bushing now. Not that I have a hope of finding one in 2023 anyway.

 

[govsux]

Here's where I can get bushings. https://www.mcmaster.com/products/steel-bushings/made-to-order-press-fit-drill-bushings-9/ need to figure out how to drill that hole in the idler from about 1.875 to 2"

 

[560Dennis]

Good glad you re getting it apart ,knew you could do it .
Well! , got your work cut out for you now don t ya ? press ahead .

 

[govsux]

(quoted from post at 12:19:40 06/04/23) Good glad you re getting it apart ,knew you could do it .
Well! , got your work cut out for you now don t ya ? press ahead .

Oh yea but I'll get it done one way or the other

 

[J.Wondergem]

No wonder it wouldn't come out. That's a lot to fight.

 

[govsux]

Well I got the right side idler off. It's far worse. Gonna have to be a lot more involved to fix. It wouk sure be better if I could just find a replacement. This one is so wore out then collar is simply gone. [see pic ] so there's not enough material to work with. This side too came apart with the bushing slipped out of place just sitting in the middle of the pin / axel doing nothing. Can't help but think this was a a design flaw that caused the problem in then first place. If that falls out of place that side would start wearing a LOT faster which is what it did on both sides. Anyway... I hope I can find a couple used idlers otherwise gonna be a lot of machine work which will be a lot of $$ and not sure it's worth it... I already dumped $750 rebuilding two rams though. And it runs perfect.. so it's probably worth it?? Ugh.... what a bummer. BTW included two pics. They should both look like the one I'm pointing at. After 2-3 days of sledge hammers and torches I was hoping for a better prognosis .. O-well.. it is what it is!!!