Super A Oil Pressure

[LarueFarmerTheBrother]

Did you plasti gauge the bearings to see what your running clearance is. Should be less than .0015

Showing .010 on the plasti-gauge

 

[LaRue Farmall]

The oil filter is the original type with a bolt down canister? - Yes, and the oil was pretty black when I bought it, which is why I was so surprised the engine interior is so clean.

I sent a link to this forum to my brother late last night, he put a camera inside the engine this morning and confirmed there is NOT a gallery plug. I am still going to follow up with the causation, photos, and the end fix.

LOL, he just made an account LarueFarmerTheBrother, he can also post the progress.

 

[LarueFarmerTheBrother]

was oil being pumped up to rockers arm with both pumps ? I assume the rockers are free from residual sludge.
try air loss test ,remove the valve oiler stud , at the head , put 20 psi air pressure into and read guage to see drop in pressure , with pan off ,it will come out at the the points of less resistance

.was the gears wear faced off also? ( have to remove exact amount from gear pump to maintain proper clearance if so .Was wear remove out pump housing?

i measured the super c cam have and the cam bore is out of spec two to three thousand ,I just think they were loose at factory. low rpm engine with 30 weight oil

if I was going to pull it I’d have the the cam journals built up and reground to fit for oil cleare your stepped cam bore.

was the oil pump relief spring checked for fatigue , ball seat in good condition.

Neither pump was pumping up to the rockers. No sludge. Previously found the oiler stud in backwards, but still no pressure. Couldn't see any loss when blowing air, but sure was open, flowing very free. Oil pump relief spring was moving free, spring wasn't broke, plate was resurfaced flat with new gasket.

 

[LaRue Farmall]

Here is a photo of the gallery hole. Is there a way to put the plug in without removing the camshaft?

 

[LarueFarmerTheBrother]

View attachment 1721

Here is a photo of the gallery hole. Is there a way to put the plug in without removing the camshaft?

@Janicholson Looks like you were correct! Here's to hoping we get pressure after plug install.

 

[Dennis K (WA)]

There is a plug at the rear of the block also, or suppose to be. The plug hole on the rear is sandwiched between the block and clutch housing. If that plug is also missing you could end up with an oil seep out between the block and clutch housing. If one is missing, they both could be. From your description it sounds like an engine repair was abandon because of no oil pressure.
Good luck with your project.
Dennis

 

[rustred]

its kind of confusing here as to who did all this engine work, you guys or the guy that had the tactor. you say u bought it this way with no oil psi. if you did the oil pressure priming it would be possible to see the oil gushing out from no plug. so i take it this engine has never been started yet. from the start it was said low oil psi then no psi so that was confusing. just trying to get a handle on this problem in order. as yes without that plug thats your problem . so its split and tear down now to get the plug in.

 

[used red MN]

Only if the access holes in the gear for the cam retainer plate bolts happen to line up with the gallery plug hole.
Example cam gear
Not sure if that YT part photo is correct, I think a stock gear only has two holes directly across from each other.
I was going to post some block photos of one for sale on eBay. Apparently the new software blocks eBay seller links as well. Just web search Farmall Super A block and they will come up, often just listed as SA, along with 100, and 130 models.

 

[used red MN]

Only if the access holes in the gear for the cam retainer plate bolts happen to line up with the gallery plug hole.
Example cam gear
Not sure if that YT part photo is correct, I think a stock gear only has two holes directly across from each other.
I was going to post some block photos of one for sale on eBay. Apparently the new software blocks eBay seller links as well. Just web search Farmall Super A block and they will come up, often just listed as SA, along with 100, and 130 models.

Block pics
Just out of curiosity trying the block for sale link again. Hmm seems to have worked. Second to last photo is the front of the block. Looks to me like the center line of the plug is about 3/4” more distance from the center line of the cam retaining bolts. Heavily guesstimating due to the angle of the photo.

 

[Janicholson]

We cant seem to get oil pressure on our '48 Super A. The oil pressure gauge shows low oil pressure, changed the gauge but still no pressure. Removed the oil pump and had it milled down so we were sure we didn't have warping causing the low pressure but that didn't work. Changed the oil pump from a different Farmall tractor that did have oil pressure but it didn't change the pressure, still barely reads on the gauge. Replaced the 0.010" Connecting Rod Bearings and the Main Bearing Set, 2.115" (0.010" undersize), still didn't make a difference. Just as a check to make sure we didn't have a clog in the bolts we blew air pressure through the holes while we had it apart and there were no clogs.

The next recommended step was to replace the camshaft or do an inline boring. I cant seem to find a camshaft replacement for a Super A and not even sure if it would help.

I purchased the tractor about 9 months ago, it never had oil pressure since I bought it but assumed the problem was a bad pressure gauge which I was going to replace anyways if nothing else just for looks. We removed the valve cover and the lifters were dry as a bone, so we began our mission.

Any suggestions are appreciated...

I have encountered that assembly failure personally (on someone else's assembly) while looking at it before he put the pan on. It has also been a topic here a few years ago. I hope there has been no damage to existing parts. Jim

 

[LaRue Farmall]

its kind of confusing here as to who did all this engine work, you guys or the guy that had the tactor. you say u bought it this way with no oil psi. if you did the oil pressure priming it would be possible to see the oil gushing out from no plug. so i take it this engine has never been started yet. from the start it was said low oil psi then no psi so that was confusing. just trying to get a handle on this problem in order. as yes without that plug thats your problem . so its split and tear down now to get the plug in.

I bought the tractor about 9 months ago from a guy in Coopersville MI, I drove from Larue County KY and and found the tractor was in pretty bad shape, it barely was able to pull itself onto my trailer. He stated the tractor was his pride and joy for 8 years and hated to see it go but he was unable to work on the tractor, we negotiated the deal, that is how so he sold it to me.

I knew the tractor needed a clutch, a carb, plugs, wires, and someone who knew how to make engines run, I also knew it wasn't me that was going to make it all happen but I do have a brother.. with a shop, tools, and is willing to get into working on old tractors. He put in the clutch, changed the fluids, got the tractor to start and run, frankly it purrs like a kitten. Everything was going as planned, then came what we didn't plan for.

I assumed the old oil pressure gauge was shot as the needle didn't move but like JWondergem stated it hasn't thrown a rod yet so it must be getting oil pressure. We changed the oil pressure gauge out for a new one, and when I say "we" I mean my brother did it. The new gauge read the same as the old gauge and so started the quest to figure out why this tractor wasn't getting oil pressure.

Low oil pressure is the way I defined it as I knew the oil pump in my tractor worked, we had switched the existing oil pump in my tractor from another Farmall Super A that did have oil pressure just to make sure the pump wasn't the problem. I determined my tractor had at least some oil pressure as when the gauge was removed oil shot out of the threaded gauge hole when the engine was turned over. No oil pressure at the top of the motor when the valve cover was removed to adjust/check the valves.

As far as who did all the work on the tractor, "we" (inside joke, I always tell him "when I say WE I mean solely you" because I am not a mechanic of any sorts). We removed the oil pump and had it milled down so we were sure we didn't have warping causing the low pressure, replaced the 0.010" Connecting Rod Bearings and the Main Bearing Set, 2.115" (0.010" undersize). I am sure there were other things but that is what I am able to understand. I have no idea who replaced the pistons, if they were indeed replaced.

The guy I bought it from offered very little information, he was physically disabled and I didn't push a lot of questions on him. He did state his son had sent the tractor over the years to a shop to be worked on, couldn't remember what all had been done to the tractor but he kept it as long as he could because his son seemed disinterested it working on it the past several years so the tractors condition began to deteriorate. He seemed a little embarrassed the tractor was running so rough after I drove as far as I did to buy it. He gave me what I would consider a fair price and so I was happy. If my brother didn't have a shop, would not work on my tractors, that tractor would have been left in Coopersville MI and I would have bought another tractor.

 

[LaRue Farmall]

The gallery plug aligns with the cam gear, I have literally no idea what that means but he sent the photo therefore I posted it.

 

[used red MN]

That means you can install the plug without removing the camshaft or gear. See the bolt in the upper left of the hole in the gear? That is bolting down the plate that holds the camshaft in the proper location front to back. The purpose of the hole(s) in the gear is to remove and install the bolts to allow the cam to be removed and installed. So it just so happens the bolt access hole is also positioned so you can access the plug. Otherwise the gear could be solid or the bolt access holes much smaller and closer to the center of the cam. Then you would have had to get the gear out of the way to install the plug. The cam retainer plate is number 27 in the linked diagram.
Super A engine parts diagram

 

[Jim Becker]

The comments in this thread have been good and appear to have led you to the source of the problem. I will add a few comments that have either not been said yet or need to be restated for emphasis. You probably already know most of this:
1) I believe that galley plug needs a tapered pipe thread and a head that takes an Allen wrench.
2) When the pump is assembled, the gasket should be paper-thin so it doesn't add too much end clearance to the gears.
3) The upper end of the engine is lubricated through a passage in the stud that holds the center support of the rocker arm shaft. The stud should be hollow with an opening in the side and an opening in the end that points down. Use of a plain stud or a bolt will block all oil to the top.
4) If the engine is half as clean as you say and as it looks in the pictures, forget the non-detergent oil. Use a modern motor oil of the proper viscosity.

 

[Janicholson]

Good quality 15-40 Diesel grade oil is a good choice. 10-40 auto engine oil is also OK. Jim

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Looks like you found it! I assume you have been looking around for the plug stuck somewhere and haven’t found it. Will be interesting to see what happens when it’s back in if there was a reason someone pulled it

 

[LaRue Farmall]

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[LaRue Farmall]

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[LaRue Farmall]

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[LaRue Farmall]

It was the missing gallery plug, we now have oil pressure. I do want to thank everyone who posted suggestions and helped us get this problem resolved.