super c generator issues..maybe normal, hot

mrfikser

Member
I have a super c with original 6 volt system.... system seems to be running good.. charging
to around (@ 1000rpms) 7+ volts and delivering 2-4 amps to battery (after running for a half hour or so)..
My question/ concern is that the generator body stays quite hot...not hot enough to burn the hand
but pretty close (maybe 130-150f )... seems hot to me, but I don't know anything about what is
normal for 6v generators (a little before my time)...I recently rebuilt the generator with new bearings and
brushes (3 brush generator), it didn't make any difference... also amp gauge shows some charge being generated...
I'm kinda wondering if the battery is getting weak or has some sort of short etc.......Not to be rude, but for those
who want me to switch over to 12v, blah, blah blah.. it ain't happening.. keeping it all original...
 
If you have a non-vented generator, it’s going to run hotter than anything else. Mine charges the exact same numbers you have stated and runs hot enough that you can’t keep your hand on it for very long. I grew up with this tractor and it’s done this for 50 years.
 
If you have a non-vented generator, it’s going to run hotter than anything else. Mine charges the exact same numbers you have stated and runs hot enough that you can’t keep your hand on it for very long. I grew up with this tractor and it’s done this for 50 years.
That is the answer. Charging good not charging bad. Jim
 
here is the Super C... minus muffler...and prior to fixing the decals...
 

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I have a super c with original 6 volt system.... system seems to be running good.. charging
to around (@ 1000rpms) 7+ volts and delivering 2-4 amps to battery (after running for a half hour or so)..
My question/ concern is that the generator body stays quite hot...not hot enough to burn the hand
but pretty close (maybe 130-150f )... seems hot to me, but I don't know anything about what is
normal for 6v generators (a little before my time)...I recently rebuilt the generator with new bearings and
brushes (3 brush generator), it didn't make any difference... also amp gauge shows some charge being generated...
I'm kinda wondering if the battery is getting weak or has some sort of short etc.......Not to be rude, but for those
who want me to switch over to 12v, blah, blah blah.. it ain't happening.. keeping it all original...
Hello.... First off I am not an expert at anything. So, my comments can be considered as such : ) I restored a Super C years and years ago and loved it to death and used the heck out of it. But, it has always always had charging problem either very low charge or mostly a slight discharge. I recently decided to fix it after 30 years of not working right. The only time it ever showed a charge was when I was bouncing around on it or I tapped on the voltage regulator and then it was a low charge for a short period of time and went to a slight discharge.

1) About 3 times I took the generator and regulator down to a guy that was very knowledgeable. He put everything up on his mock-up and confirmed everything worked. That always frustrated me. So, I assumed I had either wired it incorrectly or I had a some other component within the electrical that was bad (that doesn't leave a lot).
2) Recently I took the control panel guts out and look at the ON/OFF switch, amp meter, 3 position light switch, and fuse holder. I checked everything for function and grounding issues. I looked closely at the two posts coming out of the amp meter. They were properly insulated from the steel retaining bracket and they had no continuity to ground and the amp meter did appear to function. So, I considered it not the issue.
3) Swapped in a good used fuse holder. It was good but I had a better on. No problems there. It had continuity and was isolated from ground.
4) The light switch is a 3 position switch (correct for voltage regulator, Off and HIGH/LOW lights. I had two light switches so I took them both apart and found the one on my tractor was assembled 180 degrees out. It made my light switch feel like it had a 4th position. I combined the two switches to make a nice 3 position switch with the single resistor on the back for HIGH/LOW lights. Switch checked good, not grounded to the metal housing.
5) I did some reading. I decided to ground the F terminal to the frame..... My amp meter briskly climbed to over 10 amps. I didn't leave it like that for very long. My generator was working happily!
6) I have replaced the regulator too many times in the past. Tapping on it, makes it work a little. I was temped to try and buy a new one. But I kept reading generator issues on the internet and I learned. I learned that there are 2 brush generators. I was familiar with 3 brush (with adjustable 3rd brush) and I was familiar with 3 brush (with non-adjustable 3rd brush). I never knew about the 2 brush generators. In general, what I read is that the 2 brush generators were designed to work with the voltage regulators. The 3 brush generators were earlier design and worked with the "cut-out." I am familiar with those because I once had a Farmall A and it charged GREAT and STARTED GREAT on 6 volts. I rebuilt my generator years ago and have taken it apart several times looking for grounding issues or intermittent wiring issues. IT IS A 3 BRUSH generator with a non-adjustable 3rd brush. I don't believe it is the generator that belongs on my tractor. I can't read the number on the side but being a 3 brush generator, it is not the Delco 1101501 or 1100501 that is called for. I believe this is my problem. The generator and the regulator are not playing well together. I am in search of a Delco 1101501 or 1100501 generator. Please contact me if you have a rebuildable one.

UPDATE: I am further confused again. I looked in my Farmall/International parts manual and it only shows the 1100501 generator (isn't this the 3 brush generator?? I have read that I need the 2 brush generator????????? What gives??

So,
 
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Do you have an original Delco reg.? I'm wondering
if the resistor on the base of the reg. has changed
value. Since you have 10 Amps by shorting the F
terminal to ground, that points a finger to the reg.
Is your reg lid held on by 2 screws---is it removable?
If so, take the lid off & using your fingers move the
contacts back & forth noting the charging rate [helps
to have help here]. Fine emery paper cleans these
contacts.
Our SC came with a Delco reg. & had the cover held
on by tabs. Very hard to get off, but doable.
Jim
 
As Brownie indicates, the regulator is the issue. Two items: The regulator must b grounded well in order to "ground" the field to make it charge. The field contacts are the smaller ones and can be cleaned as above. Jim
 
"Do I have a Delco regulator?" No, I have replaced it several times trying to fix this issue.
"Is regulator lid held on by two screws?" Yes. I will me more aggressive and use some emery cloth.
Thanks for the response, Terr
 
As Brownie indicates, the regulator is the issue. Two items: The regulator must b grounded well in order to "ground" the field to make it charge. The field contacts are the smaller ones and can be cleaned as above. Jim
Let me get this right.
1) I will check the ground on the housing and possibly clean stuff up or add a ground wire.
2) The larger coil inside the Regulator is Battery, I think that gets thrown when the switch is turned on??
3) The smaller coil is the one that is supposed to vibrated back and forth causing the charge on the battery? I will push on that contact and see if I get a good charge. I will make sure I clean this contact.
 
"Do I have a Delco regulator?" No, I have replaced it several times trying to fix this issue.
"Is regulator lid held on by two screws?" Yes. I will me more aggressive and use some emery cloth.
Thanks for the response, Terr
New regulators found today are a very real quality issue. Some don't even work out of the box. Grounding the regulator with a separate ground wire is sometimes necessary. Jim
 
I am looking to sell this tractor with some implements. Where is the best place to sell stuff. Hate to see it go.
 
I have an old Delco generator/regulator book. It says the great majority of problems are caused by contacts inside the voltage regulator. I tried to clean them once but only used a thin piece of cardboard to polish them. I will get more aggressive and see what happens. I would like to get it working. Glad you all think my generator is working. I think so too. I will double check the tag on it.
 
Let me get this right.
1) I will check the ground on the housing and possibly clean stuff up or add a ground wire.
2) The larger coil inside the Regulator is Battery, I think that gets thrown when the switch is turned on??
3) The smaller coil is the one that is supposed to vibrated back and forth causing the charge on the battery? I will push on that contact and see if I get a good charge. I will make sure I clean this contact.
Not a flame, the info you have is incorrect. The larger contacts are the cutout relay and they stay open removing the regulator and generator from the tractor electrics when it is not running. The generator uses residual magnetism in the field iron poles to create a small initial current, this current goes directly to the field, through the third brush in this case, because the field is grounded by the regulator's small contacts. These contacts thus complete the field and current there allows the generator ARM terminal to go above battery voltage allowing the cutout relay to close. connecting to the battery. as voltage goes up, the field contacts open (vibrating) to limit output voltage as set by spring pressure to close them and voltage to open them. A old 19 58 Motors manual can be a real resource for understanding these miracle devices from our ancestors. Jim
 
Just got done with some mowing & put the mower in the shed. I thought
I'd start the SC ----hadn't been started for a couple months. Well, the old
girl started right up. The ammeter showed 18 amps to begin, & tapered back
to 10 amps after 5 minutes of running, so that is as it should be.
Can't remember if that is a 2 brush or a 3, but I believe it's a 2.
I check regulators withj my variable power supply. The main coil/ contact
should pull in at 12.75 Volts & the field relay/ contact should start to feel
a bit weak as the Voltage goes higher.
Jim
 
Just got out a new Delco reg. & the field resistor on the bottom
measures 65 Ohms. This is a 12 Volt one, so the 6 Volt reg. will
probably be somewhat different. I'll have to scrounge a 6 Volt unit
from the stock drawer & see what it Ohms out at.
Jim
 
After running for 5 minutes & charging 10 amps, the gen. was cool
to the touch yet. Can't figure your gen. heating up like it does. A short
in the field windings to case might be something to check out, but
field windings don't carry that much current as a general rule.
Jim
 

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