super w6 question.

[rustred]

i have a question for mr. Slater or who ever knows WHY. why is there these indents on the frame rails only on the 1953 rails. the 1954's and 400 and 450 do not have them.

 

[redforlife]

Are these indents on the bottom side of the frame rails also? Or only on the top sides? Pictures only show top sides.

The answer to that, might be a clue as to whether it was something odd that happened to a run of parts at the factory. If only the top side, it kind of lessons that possibility (something that just hapoened to a parts run) if only one frame rail was made for both left and right.

Was looking at my M frame rails the other day. Don't really know why. But got me to wondering if the left was identical to the right, just flipped over bottom side up. Kind of decided it was likely. And if they are? Maybe the Super W6's are too. Not same as M, but same as far as left and right. If so, then what it's like on the bottom would be a clue. A clue as to whether it was done on purpose.

Basically any 1938 F-20's that I have ever seen, has a nub on the top of the top radiator casting. A nub that is not there on pre 38 F-20s. No reasoning for it. Something must of happened to thier master sand mold at the foundery. Stuff like this did happen.

Another instance, I seen some steel wheels for an H or M. Skeleton with the paired lugs. Something must of happened to the sand mold for the lugs. They all had a weird casting mark. Every pair of lugs on the wheels, had that odd but identical mark. It was on the flat backside of the lug. The part that is up when stuck in the ground. So it didn't wear off over time neither.

I'm not suggesting a sand mold problem in your case. I doubt the channel iron part of a frame rail was poured anyways. More likely extruded. But I could be wrong. Just giving you a couple examples of parts run flub ups.

 

[rustred]

Here is my theory. In 53 u had the tub frame super and then it was changed to the channel frame this same year. So u have 1953 units with 2 different tractors. So during this change up from the tub they must have thought they needed that indent for the oil filter housing drain and for the carb drain. But once tractors were together they found out not needed. So no more indents cause the drains are inside the rails. These indents are only in the first year of super production with the rails. They are channel iron not a poured casting. They were put there for some reason , no flub up.

 

[Bruce from Can.]

My question is did the W9 and W9 diesel share the same tub ? If so, then possibly the indent was needed to accommodate that engine. And maybe there were more tubs cast than needed for the W9 models than the market demand required, and the tubs were just built into W6 models to use up the surplus. Hard to do much more than guess about something like this that happened 70 years ago. Sure arent going to find any guys that built the tractors to ask.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 22:40:09 04/03/23) Here is my theory. In 53 u had the tub frame super and then it was changed to the channel frame this same year. So u have 1953 units with 2 different tractors. So during this change up from the tub they must have thought they needed that indent for the oil filter housing drain and for the carb drain. But once tractors were together they found out not needed. So no more indents cause the drains are inside the rails. These indents are only in the first year of super production with the rails. They are channel iron not a poured casting. They were put there for some reason , no flub up.

Except the frame rails were not a new idea. That same exact engine had been between very similar if not identical frame rails since 1939 on close to 300,000 Ms and Super Ms.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 02:57:40 04/04/23) My question is did the W9 and W9 diesel share the same tub ? If so, then possibly the indent was needed to accommodate that engine. And maybe there were more tubs cast than needed for the W9 models than the market demand required, and the tubs were just built into W6 models to use up the surplus. Hard to do much more than guess about something like this that happened 70 years ago. Sure arent going to find any guys that built the tractors to ask.

No, the W6 and W9 are different. IH never went to frame rails on the 9-series tractors. They were tub framed from the W9 through the 650.

 

[ihjason]

The mds frame rails have dents like that. I'm wondering if your super w6 was a super wd6 at one time.

 

[rustred]

no, its an original untouched tractor.

 

[redforlife]

You still didn't answer if these indents are on the bottom sides of the rails. Maybe you looked, and just didn't put it in words here.

If one and the same rail was made for both sides, then the opposite rail would have an identical indent to the bottom side. Looks like the indents are in different locations at the top from one side to the other in photos. But do they have the indents on the bottom that would match the other sides top?? Of course this wouldn't matter if there was a right and a left side of these made.

But if there wasn't a left and right side of these made, and these indents are the only thing that makes them left or right, then this would further substantiate your theory. That they ARE there for a reason.

Barnyard makes a good point about the M's having the same engine (other than being Super) and near identical frame rails since 39. Why no identions until 53 super W6? If for carb and oil filter drainage, they would of already known this from running frame rails on the preluding M's with same set up to the frame rails.

The point about the diesels is a good point also. Maybe a connection to them, and yours had an engine swap at some point.

Have you seen other 53 gasers with these frame rails?? Or just yours? I don't know why I just asked that, because I'm under the impression that you have. And I'm not doubting you.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

There's a left and a right rail.

I'm thinking these are frame rails for a Diesel. Hard to tell from this picture of Farmall Pete's MD restoration but the oil filter drain is right where the indentation would be on the frame rail:

 

[rustred]

ok i had a look today at the MD and it has the same indent. its plain to see why. to get the oil filter housing bolt out. but other than that
on the gas no reason yet.

 

[redforlife]

By the time they decided to frame rail the Super W6, perhaps they decided to make one set of frame rails that would fit both gas and diesel versions. The gas models would get the universal diesel rails.

I could be wrong, but was the MD not offered in 39? But offered later on during the M series? If so, they would of made gas frame rails first (for the M). And apparently continued production of those same rails when the MD was introduced with frame rails of thier own.
But, ... when they decided to frame rail the Super W6's, they knew up front these rails would be needed for both gas and diesel. Why not just make one style of rail for both?

Whether or not diesel M's were offered at the start of production back in 39, might shed some light on the subject.

 

[John M]

The rails are longer on the MD, and the longer length was needed for thw SW6 and thats what was available, so IH used them.

 

[rustred]

i measured them all. farmall m, and md, and super 6 and super 6 ta all have 37 inch rails. so the only thing i can figure out is they used the diesel rails on the gas engines also. but my biggest question is why only in 53 and not 54?