Tappet in oil pan

[ford8ntractor]

bought a stuck Ford golden Jubilee and started to tear down, found the head piece from a valve lifter inside. could that be why its stuck?

 

[used red MN]

Doubtful, usually a cam/valve lifter failure will just grind itself down to nothing. The misfire causes one to investigate the problem long before the engine is locked by a cam problem.

 

[rrlund]

Could be why they parked it, then it stuck from sitting.

 

[used red MN]

Do you have the head off, are the pistons rusted in place? Common problem on tractors with vertical exhaust stacks that allow rain to come in, less common on “vertical under-slung” exhaust such as your tractor has. Condensation in the cylinders can cause this also. Rod or main bearings failing and seizing is probably the next most common cause that locks an engine.

 

[David from Kansas]

bought a stuck Ford golden Jubilee and started to tear down, found the head piece from a valve lifter inside. could that be why its stuck?

Kinda long post. Reminds me of an event I had a few years ago where I bought a used JD 820 (the big 2-cylinder) on an internet auction, sight unseen but I could tell from the video that it wasn't running right. So when I pick it up the young fellla tells me that the tractor belonged to his uncle and he was still using it to farm a little when retired. When asked about the pony motor his remark was that he could only remember pull starting it and never using the pony motor. So I haul it home and park it and try to figure out why the engine had a miss; thinking that I had a real serious problem like broken rings, cracked piston, or some other serious and expensive problem. When I checked the oil it was the blackest crap I had ever seen in an engine. Removing the cup from the air intake, I was astonished to see the oil cup was packed full with solid dirt and black oil so I cleaned it and replaced the oil. Then I removed the valve cover and when I tipped it back to remove it I heard a definite "click" and found a broken off piece of valve adjustment screw in the valve cover and noticed an obvious piece missing from the end of the valve tappet. I had removed the flywheel cover and when rolling the engine over by hand there was no movement of one of the exhaust valves. So I got a used tappet from the local salvage, installed it, adjusted the valves per the maintenance manual, pull started the tractor and It ran and sounded great. It was obvious that the tractor had been neglected for years as the crankcase oil was the blackest I had ever seen. I changed the oil and filters, ran it for an hour or two and changed them again. I took it to a shop that works on 2-cyl JD tractors and had the coils and wiring replaced on the pony, and new light switch and other electrical stuff and they got all the electricals working including the lights, fuel gage, etc. Now the pony starts and runs good, albeit with an abundance of smoke. I have plowed a little with it and pulled it a couple times in the 10000 # farm stock class.

 

[Tejon]

bought a stuck Ford golden Jubilee and started to tear down, found the head piece from a valve lifter inside. could that be why its stuck?

Going in the right direction...tear that critter down and you will find the reason of being stuck. Might even have extra parts left in there from a prior tear down, , it happens may not have anything to do with the stuck engine.

You said the engine was stuck at purchase not running so I'm not sure where the comment about a misfire came from? Stuck engine wont misfire to my knowledge.

 

[used red MN]

You said the engine was stuck at purchase not running so I'm not sure where the comment about a misfire came from? Stuck engine wont misfire to my knowledge.

The “misfire” statement was only in reference to a user’s response when operating an engine with a failed valve lifter to the extent suggested that you would find a portion of it in the oil pan. Such a failure would have a lot of valve noise and a misfire associated with it. Generally such noises and lack of power lead most operators to stop and investigate. If you did continue to run the engine the lobe of the cam would eventually be worn away to the cam base circle. This would allow the cam to rotate more easily due to the valve spring would no longer apply pressure against its valve train. So along that line of thinking the cam would not even lock up considering such a failure. Sure lifter body to bore galling or other failure modes such as the lifter fracturing into large pieces could come into play as well, there is a possibility that those could cause the cam to lock. In my opinion those things happening are very unlikely, but they could. That was a lot of wording to explain my comment. I do totally agree that he should complete the engine tear down and report the findings.

 

[Tejon]

ford8ntractor purchased a STUCK engine not operational.

 

[used red MN]

ford8ntractor purchased a STUCK engine not operational.

The reply to you which you see part of below is to explain why my reply was given.

The “misfire” statement was only in reference to a user’s response when operating an engine with a failed valve lifter to the extent suggested that you would find a portion of it in the oil pan

This was written as an example, scenario, instance or postulation, maybe one of those definitions will help you. It was written to explain the possible failures that may happen in his engine or any running engine during catastrophic failure of a valve lifter. This was meant to lay out what may have happened when the tractor was running before he got it and how his question about whether the broken lifter part could or could not be the cause of the engine locking. In essence I hope it conveyed that I believe that finding that part in the engine and the fact that the engine is locked are NOT LIKELY RELATED.

 

[ford8ntractor]

Salvageable?

 

[Tejon]

The reply to you which you see part of below is to explain why my reply was given.

This was written as an example, scenario, instance or postulation, maybe one of those definitions will help you. It was written to explain the possible failures that may happen in his engine or any running engine during catastrophic failure of a valve lifter. This was meant to lay out what may have happened when the tractor was running before he got it and how his question about whether the broken lifter part could or could not be the cause of the engine locking. In essence I hope it conveyed that I believe that finding that part in the engine and the fact that the engine is locked are NOT LIKELY RELATED.

Back to used red MN:

Your response was nice and intelligent and of course opinionated. Did Op ever mention anything about a "misfire"? NO!! Your comment "In essence I hope it conveyed that I believe that finding that part in the engine and the fact that the engine is locked are NOT LIKELY RELATED. " Short, sweet, and to the point Yeah.

 

[used red MN]

Probably should have asked for this right away, show us a photo of the “head piece from a valve lifter” I want to confirm what I explained applies to the actual part found.
Is it fixable? …Yes! It may cost more considering rust has degraded some of the parts such as the valve rocker arms, the valves and valve seats and possibly the camshaft. I would also have some concerns about the oxidation on that aluminum cam gear. There is a possibility it could be noisy during operation. I assume you know that the engine has replaceable cylinder wall liners.The rusting and pitting cylinder walls will be replaced with new during an overhaul. Looking at the condition of the rod and main journals of the crankshaft is another think that needs looked at. Here is a link to the NAA parts available from YT. Ford NAA tractor parts
To others are those stamped steel double nuts on the connecting rod nuts common on these Fords or did someone just think it was an added piece of mind to install them?

 

[pomester]

Probably should have asked for this right away, show us a photo of the “head piece from a valve lifter” I want to confirm what I explained applies to the actual part found.
Is it fixable? …Yes! It may cost more considering rust has degraded some of the parts such as the valve rocker arms, the valves and valve seats and possibly the camshaft. I would also have some concerns about the oxidation on that aluminum cam gear. There is a possibility it could be noisy during operation. I assume you know that the engine has replaceable cylinder wall liners.The rusting and pitting cylinder walls will be replaced with new during an overhaul. Looking at the condition of the rod and main journals of the crankshaft is another think that needs looked at. Here is a link to the NAA parts available from YT. Ford NAA tractor parts
To others are those stamped steel double nuts on the connecting rod nuts common on these Fords or did someone just think it was an added piece of mind to install them?

Pal nuts on the rods are factory.

 

[pomester]

Salvageable?

Salvageable?

Sure - you'll find anything you need available. And nothing is prohibitively expensive. (but everything adds up)

Problem being you may need about everything. In which case it becomes uneconomical. It's already kinda uneconomical in that you are unlikely to recover cash out of pocket costs for the overhaul upon sale of the machine, much less anything for your labor.

Money is not the only consideration and certainly I am not in any position to make a critical judgement. I like a challenge and it's fine in my mind to do something 'because I want to'.

At this point, I'd finish taking it apart and evaluate what's salvageable (probably take the pieces to your machine shop and have them pass judgement) Likely the block is serviceable, the head needs checked for cracks. Don't worry about breaking the pistons getting them out, but be careful of the rods. Have the shop check the crank, hopefully it has a turning left in it. Plan on replacing the camshaft/lifters and gear and crank gear.

Make a list, add it up, make a decision.

 

[ford8ntractor]

Probably should have asked for this right away, show us a photo of the “head piece from a valve lifter” I want to confirm what I explained applies to the actual part found.
Is it fixable? …Yes! It may cost more considering rust has degraded some of the parts such as the valve rocker arms, the valves and valve seats and possibly the camshaft. I would also have some concerns about the oxidation on that aluminum cam gear. There is a possibility it could be noisy during operation. I assume you know that the engine has replaceable cylinder wall liners.The rusting and pitting cylinder walls will be replaced with new during an overhaul. Looking at the condition of the rod and main journals of the crankshaft is another think that needs looked at. Here is a link to the NAA parts available from YT. Ford NAA tractor parts
To others are those stamped steel double nuts on the connecting rod nuts common on these Fords or did someone just think it was an added piece of mind to install them?

This is the tappet piece.

 

[used red MN]

Can you see if they are all there looking up from below? I assume you know where they are above the camshaft. If the cam in it now ran against the broken off lifter it should have some serious scoring.

 

[560Dennis]

What’s the budget on this motor ?
got to make that’s realistic, cause everything has to be check out , or your going to waste a lot of time and money .
got a 70 year old tractor it got a ot of wear and tear from just looking at the motor.

 

[wore out]

Deleted due to incorrect information.

Thanks to "soaked" for the "heads up" here!

 

[GeneMO]

Kinda long post. Reminds me of an event I had a few years ago where I bought a used JD 820 (the big 2-cylinder) on an internet auction, sight unseen but I could tell from the video that it wasn't running right. So when I pick it up the young fellla tells me that the tractor belonged to his uncle and he was still using it to farm a little when retired. When asked about the pony motor his remark was that he could only remember pull starting it and never using the pony motor. So I haul it home and park it and try to figure out why the engine had a miss; thinking that I had a real serious problem like broken rings, cracked piston, or some other serious and expensive problem. When I checked the oil it was the blackest crap I had ever seen in an engine. Removing the cup from the air intake, I was astonished to see the oil cup was packed full with solid dirt and black oil so I cleaned it and replaced the oil. Then I removed the valve cover and when I tipped it back to remove it I heard a definite "click" and found a broken off piece of valve adjustment screw in the valve cover and noticed an obvious piece missing from the end of the valve tappet. I had removed the flywheel cover and when rolling the engine over by hand there was no movement of one of the exhaust valves. So I got a used tappet from the local salvage, installed it, adjusted the valves per the maintenance manual, pull started the tractor and It ran and sounded great. It was obvious that the tractor had been neglected for years as the crankcase oil was the blackest I had ever seen. I changed the oil and filters, ran it for an hour or two and changed them again. I took it to a shop that works on 2-cyl JD tractors and had the coils and wiring replaced on the pony, and new light switch and other electrical stuff and they got all the electricals working including the lights, fuel gage, etc. Now the pony starts and runs good, albeit with an abundance of smoke. I have plowed a little with it and pulled it a couple times in the 10000 # farm stock class.

poor maintenance, and lack of use, is harder on equipment than working em hard.

Gene

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I don't like the look of the rusty rod cap where the others are coated with sludge.

The whole engine looks like low oil flow.