Tef20 injection pump function

[Michael QLD OZ]

I have the ferguson manual and both the Tef parts manual and the Haynes, but I cannot find a diagram of the internal workings of the Cav diesel injection pump.
Like most of the rest of this tractor the diesel pump is part siezed.
I say part because as I rotate the engine I can see the injection pump plunger springs on 2 3 and 4 moving up and down with the side plate removed from the pump. Number 1 does not move.
Also the shaft that the diaphram is connected to will not move, it is in the fully forward position meaning I have no room to disconnect the diaphram from the shaft.
I think that the best way forward is to remove the pump from the tractor. This is not explained in any of the manuals.
Do you have any advice for me in relation to removal and replacement of the pump, is it just the three bolts from the pump to the timing cover, and what measures should I take to ensure it goes back in the correct spot for pump timing. As you can see the loader frame makes access interesting.

 

[Dieseltech]

The rack will not move because # 1 plunger is stuck in the up position. On any inline pump the plungers must be free or the rack will not move. You MIGHT be lucky and get it freed up with pump still in place, I've done it before but you MUST be careful. First turn the engine clockwise until the # two plunger STARTS to raise, then the # one cam lobe should be down. Now with a screwdriver tap the # one lower spring seat CAREFULY and see if it will go down. If it does consider yourself lucky. Now turn the engine with fresh fuel in the pump and see if it sticks up again, if it does repeat getting it down. May take a few tries to get it loose as it should be. Any questions feel free to call five seven four eight three five 3292. Leave a message if no answer, I will call back.

 

[Tony in Mass.]

Blimey Dieseltech! Michael's in Australia! By the time he pays the bloody phone bill, he'll be too bloody broke to fix the bloody tractor!
When i was working on my famous 23C, someone- who wanted to remain nameless... got me onto to a 'page'... it wasn't even a website, it was an online manual of a CAV pump... printed by 'The London Taxi Cab Association'. With all my computer problems since then, i lost it, but you can do a search, or who ever sent it too me back then will read this and do the same for you..
with that infront of you, it makes what Dieseltech is telling you to do much easier. I got a 'kit' from a commercial fish boat supply house, but is was nothing more that too many bits and pieces of 'o' rings and brass washers that you can buy in a DIY shop for pennies. Do they still have pennies in OZ?

 

[Tony in Mass.]

Just did a search for you. U O ME beer.
I feel terrible. Search on YT archives here. This forum, 7-8-2011=July 8,2011.
A lifetime ago! Shortly after that my cousin Lyle was kicked off YT for typing dirty jokes, yee, some were pretty dirty yeah.
Carling Black Label was still on the market... my pics are full of dead soldiers on the workbench.... and, the link to that CAV page was on there. Now I need to go hide myself in shame... PCP would be sooo proud of me.... funny thing is, when dieseltech checked out my 'lack of craftsmanship'... it seems i did it all correctly..... shame the rest of the engine threw me a curve back to the age of steam...

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

Thank you I will try that on my next days off, then report back.

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

I have not seen Carling Black label since I left Scotland over 20 years ago.
A very fine drop as I remember, if a bit potent.

 

[Bill Brox]

(quoted from post at 19:01:36 06/29/17) Blimey Dieseltech! Michael's in Australia! By the time he pays the bloody phone bill, he'll be too bloody broke to fix the bloody tractor!
When i was working on my famous 23C, someone- who wanted to remain nameless... got me onto to a 'page'... it wasn't even a website, it was an online manual of a CAV pump... printed by 'The London Taxi Cab Association'. With all my computer problems since then, i lost it, but you can do a search, or who ever sent it too me back then will read this and do the same for you..
with that infront of you, it makes what Dieseltech is telling you to do much easier. I got a 'kit' from a commercial fish boat supply house, but is was nothing more that too many bits and pieces of 'o' rings and brass washers that you can buy in a DIY shop for pennies. Do they still have pennies in OZ?

Tony, it is possible to use Skype and buy some rather inexpensive ring time, and call that way. At least cheaper than calling from Australia to Dieseltech.

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

Drop in Anytime, the beer here is always cold, unlike the weather!
I am even less efficient with a computer than a vintage tractor, so I was unable to find the posts you refered to by date, in the search it only shows the last date someone replied.
However I did get number 1 pump piston free, and removed the pump.

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

Thankyou again for the advice,
I was able to get the number one piston free.

As I turn the engine it now moves properly, took a while like you said, but I have found that patience fixes more stuff than force.
However it aint over yet!

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

The shaft which holds the Diaphram still does not move at all, so I scribed a line as suggested to ensure I can return the pump to the correct position later on, and took the pump off.
I have submerged it in a bucket of atf till my next days off, hopefully by then I will beable to free its movement.

I put a wire through the diaphram connecting hole to try and move the shaft.

 

[Tony in Mass.]

(quoted from post at 14:09:04 07/02/17) The shaft which holds the Diaphram still does not move at all, so I scribed a line as suggested to ensure I can return the pump to the correct position later on, and took the pump off.
I have submerged it in a bucket of atf till my next days off, hopefully by then I will beable to free its movement.

I put a wire through the diaphram connecting hole to try and move the shaft.

'Submerged'... is the word. I get the inkling this tractor was submerged in salt water for at least a few days- many moons ago. Never seen a 'surface' tractor look this bad, especially in oz, where your weather is so mild compare to elsewhere. Keep trying to retrieve my old post, under my handle might be too many- search under 'CAV' on Ferguson Forum, see what you can find in 2011. I found it on a Bing search, like the 3rd or 4th choice under 'CAV pump'.

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

found the link to manual on fujiyatchs.
I will dig in
Thanks Tony

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

i may have spoke too soon with that diesel pump manual, seems to be more like the 3 cylinder for mf35? Not sure on those newer ones. :wink:

 

[Tony in Mass.]

The fuji one is more or less like the london taxi manual, but- those are both for a later CAV than yours. That is a 1951 model? Dieseltech will know more about it, but that looks more like something you'd find on WW2 equipment. But the basics are the same, read all you can about all of them... and keep cleaning.. whatever it is you have there

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

Dieseltech, following your advice I have got all 4 pistons in the pump moving freely, then I took the pump off and gave it a soak for the 4 days that I was at work.
The shaft that the diaphram was connected to still seems to be solid and unable to move forward or backwards. While I checked this the piston positions are 1 left side of photo all the way down with space below the spring. 2 all the way down with the cam touching the base of the spring just about to compress it.

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

However the fuel pump button that is on the opposite end of the pump now operates properly.

 

[Michael QLD OZ]

I finally got that centre shaft, moving, time to start getting ready to put it all back together.