The Blackberry Control Thread

[farmersamm]

Well, it's a journey I guess(sigh)

In another thread I laid out the current situation.

Two products used: Crossbow, and Remedy.

Sprayer mix: 2oz. of product per gallon of water.........with 2oz. nonionic 80/20 surfactant (NOT DISH SOAP)

Where I went WRONG: I used Crossbow, which contains 2-4-D. I had expressed some doubt about it, but for the wrong reason. I was concerned about the Triclopyr smaller concentration (30%), compared to Remedy.

WHY I WAS WRONG IN A NUMBER OF WAYS

The important takeway...................2-4-D doesn't do much to blackberries(in general, it doesn't work on woody plants), and......TRYPLOCYR ACTS TOO FAST. You need those leaves to stick around for a while. Both chemicals kill the top growth too fast.

I can save the chemical I've purchased for other applications.........but the Remedy/Crossbow stuff is out of contention. I need to get some Cimarron, or Chapparal.

 

[farmersamm]

I should note................. We never had a Blackberry problem until the wildfire came through in 2011/2012. It started creeping in at that time.

 

[B. White]

I had a lot of it here along with thistle. In the edge of the woods was wisteria, English ivy and a thousand others. Triclopyr at 2 oz has been good to me if I see a problem starting. I went a little stronger my first application a few years ago before the place was under control.

 

[farmersamm]

I had a lot of it here along with thistle. In the edge of the woods was wisteria, English ivy and a thousand others. Triclopyr at 2 oz has been good to me if I see a problem starting. I went a little stronger my first application a few years ago before the place was under control.

My problem is time. I'm 70, and things are starting to go South. I don't have the years to do repeats if something fails.

The Cimarron is pretty reasonably priced.

Cimarron Plus Herbicide

Cimarron Plus Herbicide

www.domyown.com

Cimarron Plus Herbicide10 Ounces

Cimmaron Plus is a dry-flowable granule that controls or suppresses broadleaf weeds and brush. Cimmaron Plus is mixed in water or can be preslurried in water and added to liquid nitrogen carrier solutions and applied as a uniform broadcast spray. Cimmaron Plus controls weeds by preemergence and...

chemicalwarehouse.com

It may look fairly pricey, but if something else takes multiple applications, and has somewhat limited success...........it's fairly cheap I'm thinking.

 

[Wdj]

That's interesting. I have had good results with crossbow. Works best in late September - early October when the blackberries are pulling sugar down into the roots. I especially like one called CrossRoad which uses the lower volitility form of 24D. But I'm in a very different climate than you are.

 

[farmersamm]

This old thing has been sitting under the trees for about 30yrs. Need to see if the tank still holds water, and whether the pump, and valve, still work. This is all we have to work with on this mess. I've only used it for maybe a coupla weeks I guess in all the time I've had it.

Bought the thing at auction on the Front Range in Colorado..........back when all the little guys were going under. Just about everything on the place, initially, was hauled in from those auctions. Seems like ages ago. I believe it set me back maybe $250. Things were bad back then.

The wheels are on a 20' spring tooth, need to pull them off that, and dig this ol' gal out of the dirt, and put 'em on.

If everything still works, probably only thing needed is a high pressure spray gun.

For you guys that are skeptical about Van Sickle paint.................................30yrs..........there ya go.

 

[farmersamm]

This is all new to me. I've never had to use chemicals, luckily. So, it's a steep learning curve.

I did find Cimarron Plus at the COOP. It's running $10/ounce. Fine with me, just happy to get it.

I did have an interesting conversation with the manager at the COOP over the phone when inquiring about the chemical.

He said that his chemical distributors all recommend spraying Blackberries in the Spring, or right after mowing, when new shoots are emerging. Which leads you to think that the distributors maybe either don't know, or don't care, or like to sell a lot of product for re-sprays. I sent him a link to the video, and reading materials, from UF/IFAS.

The article did allow for Spring spraying, but noted that it's not as effective.........which to me.........is NOT effective.

SS-AGR-240/AG238: Blackberry and Dewberry: Biology and Control

There are numerous Rubus (blackberry and dewberry) species in the southeastern United States, several of which occur in Florida. Blackberry is commonly found in fencerows, ditch banks, and pastures, and can be overlooked for extended periods of time. This lack of management can give rise to...

ask.ifas.ufl.edu

View of Blackberry and Dewberry: Biology and Control | EDIS

Research-supported information developed to meet the needs of Florida audiences.

journals.flvc.org

Both of us had concerns about the recent long drought conditions here, only recently partially relieved by some rain. Are the plants in dormancy?? It is a real concern when considering efficacy. Not gonna do any good if it isn't moving in the plant. I suppose the real question is whether there's enough moisture to kick start the plants after the dry spell

 

[Wdj]

With a contact herbicide you want as much leaf surface as possible. Don't understand that recommendation. I really hate to tell you this but your probably not gonna totally eradicate the blackberries. With diligence they can be held to a minimum but you gotta stay on it. You probably have neighbors or public owned property around where they won't be controlled. And birds and other wildlife eat them and frolic around the countryside pooping out seeds. But they do make pretty decent jam.

 

[RJKeith]

I use a brush and poison ivy killer I get a TSC. Might have to spray a couple times and possibly next year for seeds and runners.

 

[farmersamm]

I think y'all are right.......sadly.

But I just hate to let this go.............losing sleep at night over it.

This is part of the bottom half of the 80. Beautiful piece of ground. I can tell ya.......it doesn't look like this anymore. I'm not going to be the generation that let it nnalert.

Anyways.....................................

I'm further narrowing down the herbicide choice.

Cimarron Plus contains the chemical that's effective.......Metsulfuron. But it also contains Chlorsulfuron, which is not listed for Blackberries.
The question, at the time of the video, is WHICH version of Cimarron was used.

Cimarron (Not Cimarron Plus) used to be a straight Metsulfuron product. 60% concentration.

It was noted in the video that the second plot, treated with Telar, was "ok", not "the pick of the litter".

Telar is a straight Chlorsulfuron product. CONTAINS NO METSULFURON.

So...................why would I want to choose Cimarron Plus, if the goodies are diluted with Chlorsulfuron?????
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

THIS BRINGS US TO ANOTHER PRODUCT CONTAINING STRAIGHT METSULFURON.

For the effort expended, and the time I have left, I'm thinking this the chemical to use. More bang to the buck.

In addition.............

small Cedars, and hardwood saplings have grown on the field in the EIGHT years since it's been cut for hay. The very reason I regret not having it cut by someone else on shares. Is what it is, no turning back the clock. I could fill an entire page with the reasons we never got down there to cut it ourselves, but it's not excusable. Even the health issues really shouldn't have prevented calling someone in on cutting.

We do have one ace in the hole...............................

I picked this up, brand new, at the time just before everything went to Hell...........those 8yrs ago. At the time, we had no idea that bad things were on the horizon.........it was/is for Cedar control. It's sitting out in the yard, ready to go. Probably need to spin it up to check the seals......we've never run it. Even "new" seals can dry out over time.

The saw is a Spring thing. I can't run it this time of year. These things will throw sparks when cutting Cedars. Don't want to be throwing sparks in an uncut field full of dormant grass.

We have relatively good skid steer rental rates here. The outfit I deal with, has a weekend rate. Pick it up Friday evening, get it back Monday morning, and you get charged for Saturday only. Around $500 for 2 days, unlimited hours on the tach.

Cedars are a one-and-done thing. They don't regrow. Hardwoods are a different thing altogether. Plan is.........K'kins is going to follow behind with a jug of stump killer, and a drill.........or a brush if the product specifies brushing. Haven't looked into the stump killers yet.

I knew this was eventually coming. It was the reason I bought the Krone disc mower a few years back. I need something that can deal with pinky finger sized saplings that would shut down a sickle mower. With luck, only tiny stuff will have to be dealt with after the initial hard push.

 

[UAFitter]

I think y'all are right.......sadly.

But I just hate to let this go.............losing sleep at night over it.

View attachment 165993
This is part of the bottom half of the 80. Beautiful piece of ground. I can tell ya.......it doesn't look like this anymore. I'm not going to be the generation that let it nnalert.

Anyways.....................................

I'm further narrowing down the herbicide choice.

View attachment 165994

Cimarron Plus contains the chemical that's effective.......Metsulfuron. But it also contains Chlorsulfuron, which is not listed for Blackberries.
The question, at the time of the video, is WHICH version of Cimarron was used.

View attachment 165995

Cimarron (Not Cimarron Plus) used to be a straight Metsulfuron product. 60% concentration.

It was noted in the video that the second plot, treated with Telar, was "ok", not "the pick of the litter".

View attachment 165996

Telar is a straight Chlorsulfuron product. CONTAINS NO METSULFURON.

So...................why would I want to choose Cimarron Plus, if the goodies are diluted with Chlorsulfuron?????
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

THIS BRINGS US TO ANOTHER PRODUCT CONTAINING STRAIGHT METSULFURON.

View attachment 165997

For the effort expended, and the time I have left, I'm thinking this the chemical to use. More bang to the buck.

In addition.............View attachment 165998 small Cedars, and hardwood saplings have grown on the field in the EIGHT years since it's been cut for hay. The very reason I regret not having it cut by someone else on shares. Is what it is, no turning back the clock. I could fill an entire page with the reasons we never got down there to cut it ourselves, but it's not excusable. Even the health issues really shouldn't have prevented calling someone in on cutting.

We do have one ace in the hole...............................

View attachment 165999
I picked this up, brand new, at the time just before everything went to Hell...........those 8yrs ago. At the time, we had no idea that bad things were on the horizon.........it was/is for Cedar control. It's sitting out in the yard, ready to go. Probably need to spin it up to check the seals......we've never run it. Even "new" seals can dry out over time.

The saw is a Spring thing. I can't run it this time of year. These things will throw sparks when cutting Cedars. Don't want to be throwing sparks in an uncut field full of dormant grass.

We have relatively good skid steer rental rates here. The outfit I deal with, has a weekend rate. Pick it up Friday evening, get it back Monday morning, and you get charged for Saturday only. Around $500 for 2 days, unlimited hours on the tach.

Cedars are a one-and-done thing. They don't regrow. Hardwoods are a different thing altogether. Plan is.........K'kins is going to follow behind with a jug of stump killer, and a drill.........or a brush if the product specifies brushing. Haven't looked into the stump killers yet.

I knew this was eventually coming. It was the reason I bought the Krone disc mower a few years back. I need something that can deal with pinky finger sized saplings that would shut down a sickle mower. With luck, only tiny stuff will have to be dealt with after the initial hard push.

Why don’t you hire the co-op to apply your chemical, too? It’s not going to do you any good in the jug, and their equipment works. I’d hire somebody to mow it with a big batwing, and as soon as it was recovering from that, I’d have the co-op spray it. This analysis paralysis is how you get to eight years of not making hay.

 

[farmersamm]

Up till 3:00 in the morning looking at basal, and stump, treatments. THIS APPEARS TO BE A BONUS

The Triclopyr esters can be used during the Winter. This gives us a leg up, time wise. The work can start as soon as I put a new clutch in the 1 ton.

The oil mixes can be used unless the bark is wet, or there's actual snow on the ground/base. Basal treatments can be used on dormant stems

So.......the work can be year around.

Remedy is an ester, so it should work fine. Only esters can be mixed with oil.

An interesting note on Garlon. I came across some specimen labels that prohibited moving hay off the farm(on farm use only) after spraying with Garlon. These restrictions have disappeared. Just like magic. For this reason, I don't believe I'll use any Garlon on the place. The main concern was chemical transport through the hay to the animal, and from the animal via manure.

Chemical transport would seem to be an issue with any herbicide of this type. It's one of my biggest reasons for disliking chemical use.

If it's in the hay, or grass....................it's in the animal. I've noted in past posts in other threads that I can see actual palatability differences between sprayed, and non sprayed, hay. I can remember, years ago, buying some beautiful hay from over near Tulsa (Bixby). Guy was proud of it, AND IT DID LOOK GOOD, and told us it had been sprayed for weeds. I had to force the gurlz to eat it. Left it till they got so hungry they HAD to eat it. I've experienced this with other "CLEAN" hay. I'd rather see some weeds in the hay I buy.

Haying, grazing, and slaughter, restrictions are for a reason. It allows the animal time to metabolize the chemical. BUT DO THEY REALLY FULLY METABOLIZE IT??? Your guess is as good as mine. With billions of dollars at stake, I can't really bring myself to trust the chemical companies, and government agencies. And people wonder why there's so much cancer these days..................................

This land has been in our family since before Oklahoma was a state. I'll be THE FIRST to apply any kind of chemical to it. Look at the above pic..............THAT LAND HAS NEVER BEEN SPRAYED..........NEVER. I'm pretty upset about it.

 

[Wdj]

While not as immediately effective as chemistry, I have been able to get adequate control with consistent mowing combined with increasing the vigor of the grass stand. At least for a pasture situation. The idea is to not allow enough leaf area to replenish sugars in the root system. Awhile back there was an article in our local extension newsletter about blackberry leaves being fairly good feed if you can get the cows to eat them. Blackberries have been a problem around here since long before my time but the last 10 years or so they have gone absolutely berserk! At my job we are having a lot of problems establishing new plantings of Douglas fir due to them rapidly shading and choking them out.