I was using my boxblade behind my '51 TO 30 for some light work this morning and the engine suddenly started falling off like it was going to die, then reving back up. The gas tank is nearly full so I know it's not out of gas. I turned it off and looked it over. It started back up and ran fine for about 100 feet then started the whole "going to die/rev back up" thing again. I got it over to the shop and checked it over. I took the carb off and checked it and sprayed it with carb cleaner. Put it back on and had the same problem. I had a tune-up kit so I replaced the points and condenser. Then it wouldn't start at all. I've replaced those parts before, so I know they're in correctly. I pulled two plugs and now I'm getting no fire at all to the spark plugs. I put the old points and condenser back in and still it won't fire. I checked and I'm getting fire to the distributor but not to the plugs. I spent several hours today checking the archives, and have tried all I know. After reading a lot of the posts, and based on the fact I'm getting no spark, I am guessing that it might be the coil. I just called the local Auto Zone and they said they can test it so I'll take it in tomorrow. It's a six volt coil so if it is the coil, should I get a 12 volt to replace it? Also, am I overlooking something? I've had this tractor several years and it's always run super-great Thanks.
First the last question. You didn"t say if the tractor is 12 volts or not. If it is not 12 volts, don"t replace the 6 volt coil with a 12 volt coil. They are not interchangeable, except with a proper resistor, which you didn"t mention. Next, it sounds like you may have multiple issues; the old two problems, one masking the other situation. Your original problem of surging and dying sounds to me like trash in your fuel line or a partially stopped up fuel filter. Now that you have replaced the points and subsequently you get no fire, where you obviously had some fire before or it wouldn"t have run at all, I"m thinking you have a short in the points installation. Check your distributor wiring carefully. Hope all that helps, and post back what you find.
Thanks, Phil and Andy. It has been converted to 12 volt and I'm not getting a spark from the coil. I checked the fuel flow to the carburator and it seems OK, ie, I could drain the tank in a few minutes if I left the connection to the carb loose. Anyway, I'll get the coil checked today. Thanks again.
I agree with Phil, you probally will have the same surge die issue once you get your spark issue resolved. Pull the drain plug in from the carb you should have a nice steady stream of gas.
When you pulled your carb did you check the filter in the carb elbow? See picture. There is a filter in there that allot of people forget about. Sorry it is a bit fuzzy.
When you pulled your carb did you check the filter in the carb elbow? See picture. There is a filter in there that allot of people forget about. Sorry it is a bit fuzzy.
Since it is 12 volts, and your current coil is 6 volts, i"m assuming you have a resistor in line to allow the 6 volt coil to work without burning up your points?? If so, and if you get a 12 volt coil, which probably would be a good idea, take the resistor out of the electrical line. You can discard it, or leave it there (in case you ever have to use a 6 volt coil for some reason at another time). If there is no resistor in series with your 6 volt coil, that could be part of your problem.
The first thing I would do is make sure that I had a good spark.
You didn't say whether you have the OEM electrical system (6V positive ground) or a 12V, negative ground system. Some people conver to 12 V negative ground and rather than replacing the coil, they make what I call a "half breed" ignition system by placing a resistor in series with with the coil to reduce the current through the coil. If you don't do that( add the proper resistor) the high current from the 12 V system will burn the points and overheat the coil, melting the internal insulation. The engine will start when cold but dies after about 20-30 minutes and then normally restarts after a half hour coil cool down only to repeat the process.When I bought my TO-30, that's what it had on it. This is not your stated problem.
Based on your description, my first inclination is that you have a fuel delivery problem. However, since you don't have a good spark, you don't want to jump to that conclusion. Make sure that your points are correctly set and not burned or corroded. Check to see if you have a resistor in the circuit and make sure that you have continuity through it IF you have one. By all means, check the coil and replace it with the correct coil if necessary. If you do have a 12V, negative ground system get a real 12 V Coil (NAPA IC-14SB ~ $15) with the built in reistance.
Make sure that whatever coil you have that the wire from the distributor to the coil is connected to the coil terminal that matches the battery ground(i.e. if you have a 12v negative ground system, the coil wire to the distributor should be on the (-) coil terminal.) If it is connected incorrectly, your spark energy will be halved.
Check your distributor for wear in the shaft/bushing by rotating the engine till the points are closed and pushing radially( from the side) on the shaft. You should see no motion in the points. The play limit is 0.002" radial movement My original distributor was worn so badly that the points opened to 0.030" when I did this test. The symptoms were that the engine ran like a three legged dog with a loping idle and would not accelerate and it just suddenly started doing it the day I had to plow the driveway. As unbelieveable as that sounds, it appeared to happen overnight. But that much wear doesn't happen over night. It happened over 50 years! So check your distributor for wear. You can have it rebuilt for ~$100 or you can get a rebuilt one for ~$200. Just a rebush would be much less IF the shaft isn't worn.
Make sure that you have a good key switch and in general make sure that you have good continuity through the primary ignition circuit with battery voltage at the battery side coil connection and, with the points closed, near zero volts the distributor side of the coil.
If you systemantically do these checks you should find the cause of your spark problem.
Then you can tackle the fuel delivery problem IF fixing the spark doen't cure the problem.
You didn't say whether you have the OEM electrical system (6V positive ground) or a 12V, negative ground system. Some people conver to 12 V negative ground and rather than replacing the coil, they make what I call a "half breed" ignition system by placing a resistor in series with with the coil to reduce the current through the coil. If you don't do that( add the proper resistor) the high current from the 12 V system will burn the points and overheat the coil, melting the internal insulation. The engine will start when cold but dies after about 20-30 minutes and then normally restarts after a half hour coil cool down only to repeat the process.When I bought my TO-30, that's what it had on it. This is not your stated problem.
Based on your description, my first inclination is that you have a fuel delivery problem. However, since you don't have a good spark, you don't want to jump to that conclusion. Make sure that your points are correctly set and not burned or corroded. Check to see if you have a resistor in the circuit and make sure that you have continuity through it IF you have one. By all means, check the coil and replace it with the correct coil if necessary. If you do have a 12V, negative ground system get a real 12 V Coil (NAPA IC-14SB ~ $15) with the built in reistance.
Make sure that whatever coil you have that the wire from the distributor to the coil is connected to the coil terminal that matches the battery ground(i.e. if you have a 12v negative ground system, the coil wire to the distributor should be on the (-) coil terminal.) If it is connected incorrectly, your spark energy will be halved.
Check your distributor for wear in the shaft/bushing by rotating the engine till the points are closed and pushing radially( from the side) on the shaft. You should see no motion in the points. The play limit is 0.002" radial movement My original distributor was worn so badly that the points opened to 0.030" when I did this test. The symptoms were that the engine ran like a three legged dog with a loping idle and would not accelerate and it just suddenly started doing it the day I had to plow the driveway. As unbelieveable as that sounds, it appeared to happen overnight. But that much wear doesn't happen over night. It happened over 50 years! So check your distributor for wear. You can have it rebuilt for ~$100 or you can get a rebuilt one for ~$200. Just a rebush would be much less IF the shaft isn't worn.
Make sure that you have a good key switch and in general make sure that you have good continuity through the primary ignition circuit with battery voltage at the battery side coil connection and, with the points closed, near zero volts the distributor side of the coil.
If you systemantically do these checks you should find the cause of your spark problem.
Then you can tackle the fuel delivery problem IF fixing the spark doen't cure the problem.
Thanks to everyone for all the help. (This discussion board reminds me of high school when somebody's car would break down. Everybody would pitch in with their ideas on how to get it going. The main difference is you guys know what your talking about!) Anyway, I went through all the gas lines, carb filters, etc., rechecked the points and wiring, but still it wouldn't start. After talking to a guy at the local O'Reilly's, I bought one of their $12.99 coils, put it on, and now it runs like a champ. I used it several hours today and it never spuddered once. I truly appreciate all the help; your comments have greatly increased my understanding of my TO30. This is probably the most tuned-up and smoothest running it's been since I got it!
Had a similar thing happen to me. Found it to be a small crack in the cap. All I can figure is that as long and the plastic was fairly cool everything was ok. But after everything warmed up it must have expanded enough to quit allowing the rotor to transfer the juice. BTW, Im using 12V w/ the electronic ignition upgrade. A bit pricey but well worth it.
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