Top cover rehab question

[couldabin]

I am a newbie 8N owner who could really benefit from the insights of veteran 8N owners. The hydraulics had some pretty standard behaviors noticeable leak down, and failure to raise all the way up were the most notable. When we got the tractor, the transmission was overfilled (the previous owner was using a nail for a dipstick, and its overall length was at least 1" less than the distance to the FULL line on the proper dipstick, so he had to overfill it to get a reading ), and the fluid was pretty milky and somewhat caramel colored.

Took the top off. The first thing I noticed was the hole (see photos). That doesn t look factory to me. Assuming there are no loose pieces still in the housing, how serious a problem is this?

The next was the amount of flaking rust. I would like to get the lift ram arm out so that I can de-rust it properly, and get the rust off the top underneath it, but I m guessing those lift shaft arms don t come off easily. I have a torch to heat them. Should I be able to use a two-jaw puller? How likely is it that the lift shaft is thoroughly seized up in the lift ram arm? My primary goal in disassembling this is to do a better job of cleaning it up. Is it worth spending a lot of effort to get it apart, or can adequate clean-up be done with the lift ram arm in place?

Finally, the cam follower dowel is of course worn, and it sounds as if the standard way of removing/replacing involves a torch, punch and hammer. It even sounds like some people do this without removing the position control mechanism from the top. Removing it does look challenging. If this is done in place, do you prop the top on its side, and then cut some pipe to length to support the arm while you pound on the dowel? Does anyone fully disassemble the position control apparatus?

Thanks for any advice. I m quite certain I will be back to reveal more newbie ignorance soon enough.

[/img:20b5a7f5dd]

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 17:05:48 04/21/23) I am a newbie 8N owner who could really benefit from the insights of veteran 8N owners. The hydraulics had some pretty standard behaviors noticeable leak down, and failure to raise all the way up were the most notable. When we got the tractor, the transmission was overfilled (the previous owner was using a nail for a dipstick, and its overall length was at least 1" less than the distance to the FULL line on the proper dipstick, so he had to overfill it to get a reading ), and the fluid was pretty milky and somewhat caramel colored.

Took the top off. The first thing I noticed was the hole (see photos). That doesn t look factory to me. Assuming there are no loose pieces still in the housing, how serious a problem is this?

The next was the amount of flaking rust. I would like to get the lift ram arm out so that I can de-rust it properly, and get the rust off the top underneath it, but I m guessing those lift shaft arms don t come off easily. I have a torch to heat them. Should I be able to use a two-jaw puller? How likely is it that the lift shaft is thoroughly seized up in the lift ram arm? My primary goal in disassembling this is to do a better job of cleaning it up. Is it worth spending a lot of effort to get it apart, or can adequate clean-up be done with the lift ram arm in place?

Finally, the cam follower dowel is of course worn, and it sounds as if the standard way of removing/replacing involves a torch, punch and hammer. It even sounds like some people do this without removing the position control mechanism from the top. Removing it does look challenging. If this is done in place, do you prop the top on its side, and then cut some pipe to length to support the arm while you pound on the dowel? Does anyone fully disassemble the position control apparatus?

Thanks for any advice. I m quite certain I will be back to reveal more newbie ignorance soon enough.

[/img:4cc3c8dc82]

he hole over differential ring gear is factory normal.

 

[couldabin]

Thanks -- I am glad to hear that.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

A milky/murky brownish color to the hydraulic oil is an indication your system has been contaminated with water. Does the tractor set outside or did previous owner
leave it outside? Cam follower pin may indeed be worn but more to check first. A nail as a dipstick? Pretty pathetic. Don't just put new oil in. Plan on going thru
entire system, you're probably going to need to pull the pump and rebuild system. That may or may not involve replacing the pump and determine if it is cracked. You
can perform the Lift Test first, but chances are the hydraulic cylinder is worn and it will need to be replaced with a new one along with a new piston as well. This
involves pulling the top cover off to repair the cylinder but the pump gets dropped from underneath. The cylinder is bolted to the bottom of the top cover from
underneath the seat and the top cover MUST BE pulled off with the cylinder attached and then removed once on your bench. If you remove the FOUR bolts first, you will
do extensive damage. Get the Manuals, I&T FO-4 Manual for sure. I also have a document I wrote on how to safely remove the 8N top cover and repair the pump and
cylinder. My email is open if you want a copy.


Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

If you were the one who sent me an email, I accidentally dumped all my messages last night so resend if you want a copy of my
8N Hydraulic Repair Document...

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[jimtrs]

I've done dozens of lift cover rebuilds, and they all look like yours. Very little splash lubrication up that high leads to corrosion. Strip everything possible except the lift arms, unless you have some reason to need them off. Remove the cam follower pin on the bench, to avoid breaking or bending parts, with some strategically placed sockets and a punch. Save the torch for the yoke at the end of the draft control spring. For a sure fire way of aligning everything correctly, find, use, or borrow a lift adjustment jig. There are dimensions in some old messages here on this site. Once you find that, post back if you need instructions. Without the jig, it can be several or more times of installing the lift cover, checking your adjustments, and removing for further adjustments.

Don't be lulled into thinking that just following repair manual instructions will set it correctly. Too many years of wear and abuse

 

[Caryc]

I can't really give you a lot of advice on that since my 8N has an older 2N top cover on it. There is no small lever to switch between draft and position control. Mine is in position control all the time.

But as far as removing it and working on it, as you see, I removed the seat leaving the seat spring attached. The big clamp and 2 X 4 makes a great handle for removing it. Of course it's always good to have two people. As you can see, that seat spring makes a great way to take a big "C" clamp and clamp it to the corner of a table. It makes it real easy to work on it that way. Pictures show the seat pan still attached because I took that one picture after the fact, you do need to remove it.

This post was edited by Caryc on 04/23/2023 at 10:20 am.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 14:17:56 04/23/23) I can't really give you a lot of advice on that since my 8N has an older 2N top cover on it. Pictures show the seat pan still attached because I took that one picture after the fact, you do need to remove it.

This post was edited by Caryc on 04/23/2023 at 10:20 am.

it's a small world after all, they say. we both have an 8N seat on a 2N cover

 

[Caryc]

Yes, but is your tractor an 8N? My tractor is an 8N but someone replaced the cover with a 2N cover.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 17:34:30 04/23/23)
Yes, but is your tractor an 8N? My tractor is an 8N but someone replaced the cover with a 2N cover.

i understand. mine's a 47 2N. i just thought it was an interesting coincidence that we ended up with the same mismatched combo on two different models.

for a few years, i didn't realize my seat wasn't a normal 2N seat. offhand, it's the only 8N 'upgrade' i'm aware of on mine.

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 13:58:43 04/23/23)

(quoted from post at 17:34:30 04/23/23)
Yes, but is your tractor an 8N? My tractor is an 8N but someone replaced the cover with a 2N cover.

i understand. mine's a 47 2N. i just thought it was an interesting coincidence that we ended up with the same mismatched combo on two different models.

for a few years, i didn't realize my seat wasn't a normal 2N seat. offhand, it's the only 8N 'upgrade' i'm aware of on mine.

Well, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure if the top cover is a 9N or a 2N. But, as I said it does not have the little "flush" lever on the right side as the 8N's have. When I first posted about it here on the forum, people thought I was crazy that I thought my tractor was an 8N.

four speed trans plus rev
two brake pedals on the right
clutch on the left
side mount dist
8 lugs on rear tires
position control

Tell me that's not an 8N.

 

[HFJ]

lol @ flush lever

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 14:36:41 04/23/23) lol @ flush lever

Actually I didn't come up with that one. Someone else here on the forum did but, I think it fits. :wink:

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 18:23:04 04/23/23)

Well, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure if the top cover is a 9N or a 2N.

as an afterthought, i'm not sure which one mine is either

what i do know is that mine has no business being red, but that didn't stop someone.

 

[couldabin]

Tim, yes, I did send an email but now I can't remember how I found the place on the site for sending you an email. Can you (or someone else) walk me through finding that form? Thanks.

 

[couldabin]

@jimtrs - thanks for the tips. I did abandon the idea of getting the lift arm shaft out, and instead took just about everything else out to clean it up. That made replacing the cam follower pin pretty easy -- it punched right out, and since this was the first use I turned it around and will re-use it. (I have been a bit unnerved by the sites that list the replacement dowel as being 5/16 in diameter, since -- as I'm certain you know -- it's actually about 0.004 smaller than that. Makes me wonder it the dowels these places are selling are 0.3085 or 0.3125.)

I think I saw a post with some details about adjusting without a jig; I will try to find it again.

 

[jimtrs]

(quoted from post at 13:17:56 04/23/23) I can't really give you a lot of advice on that since my 8N has an older 2N top cover on it. There is no small lever to switch between draft and position control. Mine is in position control all the time

9N & 2N lift covers are the same. [b:186db5f941][i:186db5f941]Draft Control[/i:186db5f941][/b:186db5f941] only. Unless you've added an external device to simulate position control.
As a note to installing 9N /2N lift covers on an 8N, the hydraulic pump would also need to be swapped.

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 15:33:05 04/24/23)

(quoted from post at 13:17:56 04/23/23) I can't really give you a lot of advice on that since my 8N has an older 2N top cover on it. There is no small lever to switch between draft and position control. Mine is in position control all the time

9N & 2N lift covers are the same. [b:b3acc09851][i:b3acc09851]Draft Control[/i:b3acc09851][/b:b3acc09851] only. Unless you've added an external device to simulate position control.
As a note to installing 9N /2N lift covers on an 8N, the hydraulic pump would also need to be swapped.

Don't know anything about the pump being swapped. All I know is that it is either a 2N or a 9N cover. My tractor is an 8N and I have position control only.