Torch info

[Dan]

As most know - I only have a small propane plumbers torch for heat applications in my garage shop. I will need to braze my oil pickup tube on my 1939 9N engine, so I figured I might kill two birds with one stone here (and Christmas is coming up). I am thinking about upgrading my propane torch to one that can braze small stuff like the pickup tube. I have found some MAPP torches, and some Oxy-MAPP combination torch/cutters at a local home improvement store for around $50. Both say they can braze, the Oxy-MAPP version obviously gets even hotter and can be used as a cutter on thin metals and such. I know many will say move up to the Oxy-Sedlane(sp) setup - but even the small portable rig is a bit much for size and cost (remember, I use one side of a two car garage - space is a premium). As a bonus, I can get hotter heat on rusted/stuck stuff than my propane rig gives me.

My question is two fold - anyone use one of these, are they any good? And, any tips for a newbie on brazing using a setup like this - like what kind of brazing rods to use, how to heat up the brazing rods properly, surface preperation, etc?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Dunk]

<a href="http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36983">
Cheap Torch</a>

Might also want to check out cheap torches at your local welding supply.

Then go to a welding supply place and buy you a small, owners oxygen tank (that will be where you will get it filled, swapped).

Then for fuel, use the propane tank off of your bar-bah-que grill.

No Acetylene!!

If you want to use the cutting tip with the propane, you will have to buy a propane tip for it.

The other tips for welding should work fine.

JMO

I use a big owner Oxygen bottle, and a big propane bottle. But still the same stuff. The grill tank will last you for a couple of years on propane.

 

[murn ga]

Dunk,is Harbor Freight a safe site to order from?

The reason I ask is,I placed an order for a cheap angle grinder and brushes. Master Card called me a few days later to confirm that I had actually ordered this order and I said yes I did,whats the problem and they went on to explain nothing.About 10 days later I received a nice letter from Harbor Freight telling me that MC would not authorize payment.Have a clue?

 

[Dunk]

murn, I just put that link there to show an example of a cheap set of torches.

I have only ordered one thing from Harbor Freight and that was a couple of years back, it was a chainsaw sharpener $39 or so, I got it in a reasonable amount of time, ordered it on my Visa, and mounted it on my workbench, but have never used it so far.

That is about all I can tell you about them.

 

[Jim Spencer]

I buy quite a few things from Harbor freight and use master card with no problem.

The Harbor freight stores have an excellent return policy and that is why I use them a lot.
I do buy some things that are not very good quality and when I discover that I return the items.
In the morning I am taking my "Quick Hitch" back because it will not work with most of my implements. That is not due to poor quality (because I believe this is one product that is good quality) but because my implements are not all standard design.
Jim

 

[Dunk]

Here is an example of what you are looking at in an <a href="http://item.express.ebay.com/Home-Garden_Tools__20-CF-welding-cylinder-tank-bottle-OXYGEN-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ140185357052QQihZ004QQddnZHomeQ20Q26Q20GardenQQadnZToolsQQddiZ984QQadiZ1238QQcmdZExpressItem">
Oxygen Bottle</a>

 

[murn ga]

Thanks Jim and Dunk. I will go to the dreaded Home Depot in a few days when the temp gets above 60 again.

 

[glennster]

i have one of the little oxy-mapp torches from home depot. they work good for small stuff, good for brazing, and you can gas weld thinner metal. good for heating bolts too. small concentrated flame. you do go thru oxygen bottles quick. but for the price and occasional use, it aint a bad price.

 

[Ltljon]

When I worked on the RR the welders used propane to cut rail but I can't remember if it was because it was cheaper or burned hotter.
At least it'll be easier to re-fill.

 

[Dunk]

It's not as hot as acty., but it is lots cheaper, does the job, and is not nearly as dangerous.

 

[Sean (TX)]

The price is right but the O2 runs out fast...7 or 8 bucks a bottle for O2 propane or mapp gas is pretty cheap..I have one ill give you..Still owe you one...

Should get you a

About 300 bucks at home depot..

They run out of gas quick with heavy use but good for small jobs...Have to pay a resert fee on brand new bottles too...Like 15 or 20 bucks each...Refills aint bad. I get bottles from TSC..

 

[Dan]

Free is the best of all. I do want one of those comapact ones like you posted, but may have to wait a while for the cash.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Jack - Illinois]

A few years back I ordered a lot of "stuff" from Harbor Freight and never had a problem like yours. I did order one of the fold up trailers and the box had the end loose in it a couple of the side rails were missing. I needed one for each side and they kept sending 2 for the same side. It took almost 3 months to get the right part. Sometimes when I called they would send a return voucher for the wrong part and other times they would just tell me to keep it. The past 5 years or so they have had a store in East Peoria, IL which is less than 25 miles from me so I have not ordered since the store opened. I also agree that their return policy is great.

 

[Sean (TX)]

Email me your address and ill mail it to you...


[email protected]

 

[Matt L]

Gotta watch some of the smith regulators - the nut for the hp seat isnt tight enough alot of the time and will leak to the low side and wreck havoc on the gauge. I seem to fix alot of smith stuff like that.

 

[ZANE]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and better to just buy a new pick up tube?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the tube was originally soldered in????

I have resoldered them with regular lead acid solder and also using solder flux which is better.

I think you could get a good holding job if you could use silver solder but I think you might run into trouble with the residual lead solder left on the fitting.

The way I align the tube to afix it to the pump cover is bolt it to the pump. Clamp the mounting flange of the pump housing to a level solid table etc. Then use a level to level the pick up tube cup with it sticking up. That is the only way you have a chance of the cup aligning with the oil drain hole in the pan. There is supposed to be a screen on the oil pan plug that helps support the cup on the pickup tube and helps prevent it's movement.

Zane

 

[Hobo,NC]

You are git'n ready to throw your money away,,, get the real deal run with the big dogs,,,, keep a sharp eye out a deal will turn up for the good stuff, I would not look at the imported look alike sets,,, name brands bring the big bucks for a reason.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Whut nuts ya talk'n 'bout,,, I took a look at mine,,, splain that

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 23:17:40 12/06/07)
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the tube was originally soldered in????

I have resoldered them with regular lead acid solder and also using solder flux which is better.

I think you could get a good holding job if you could use silver solder but I think you might run into trouble with the residual lead solder left on the fitting.

Zane

I wire brushed all of that lead solder stuff off of mine while heating it with my torch, then I brazed it.

I guarantee that it will NEVER break that brazing.

Lead acid core soldier IS for a person that does NOT know how to use a torch, flux, and do what is needed.

Radiator repair shops, or anyone else that knows how to solder, does NOT use that acid core soldier, they use solid core solder, and flux.

I did have a lot more confidence in you, Zane than that.

I still have confidence in your lift stuff.

But lead acid core solder is NOT where it is at.

You just dropped many points on my list.

 

[souNdguy]

Those mapi / oxy map torches at walmart will braze.. however.. your plumbers torch will silver solder... and that would be plenty.. just use lotsa flux on a super clean joint.. Steel actually silver solvers VERY well. Got any double barrel shotguns.. O/U or side by side.. don't matter. Wanna guess what holds the barells together,the top ribbing on, and the barrel joint covers? you guessed it... silver solder! different heat ranges are available..

soundguy

 

[gahorN]

(quoted from post at 19:57:23 12/06/07)

(quoted from post at 23:17:40 12/06/07)
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the tube was originally soldered in????

I have resoldered them with regular lead acid solder and also using solder flux which is better.

I think you could get a good holding job if you could use silver solder but I think you might run into trouble with the residual lead solder left on the fitting.

Zane

I wire brushed all of that lead solder stuff off of mine while heating it with my torch, then I brazed it.

I guarantee that it will NEVER break that brazing.

Lead acid core soldier IS for a person that does NOT know how to use a torch, flux, and do what is needed.

Radiator repair shops, or anyone else that knows how to solder, does NOT use that acid core soldier, they use solid core solder, and flux.

I did have a lot more confidence in you, Zane than that.

I still have confidence in your lift stuff.

But lead acid core solder is NOT where it is at.

You just dropped many points on my list.

Dunk, ... Zane pointed out that solid w/flux is better. Lately you been gittin' kinda jumpy onna our fren's.... it makes [u:2964dd074e]you[/u:2964dd074e] the one who's droppin' inna points.

 

[Dan]

Sounder - I hear you recommend silver solder quite a bit. I appologize up front for my ignorance - but where do you find this stuff? I have looked around for quite some time and have not found it. Is it called something else on the roll? Also - I have never used flux before - how do you apply it to work with soldering? Do you just hold your torch on the solder until it starts to flow? Preheat the flux first? Keep the heat on the part? Can you tell I have never done this , or seen it done, before?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 05:36:38 12/07/07) Sounder - I hear you recommend silver solder quite a bit. I appologize up front for my ignorance - but where do you find this stuff? I have looked around for quite some time and have not found it. Is it called something else on the roll? Also - I have never used flux before - how do you apply it to work with soldering? Do you just hold your torch on the solder until it starts to flow? Preheat the flux first? Keep the heat on the part? Can you tell I have never done this , or seen it done, before?

Thanks,
Dan

Silver soldering is the same as any other soldering - you heat the parts to be joined until they will melt the solder. You don't melt the solder with the torch. Paste flux (comes in a tube or tin) is applied to the joint prior to the solder. "Acid core" solder is simply a hollow tube of solder with a ribbon of paste flux inside.

Solver solder is simply a higher melting point solder formulation containing a small amount of silver. It requires higher heat to apply and makes a stronger joint. Most any industrial or A/C supply house should have it.

TOH

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 04:02:20 12/07/07)

(quoted from post at 19:57:23 12/06/07)

(quoted from post at 23:17:40 12/06/07)
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the tube was originally soldered in????

I have resoldered them with regular lead acid solder and also using solder flux which is better.

I think you could get a good holding job if you could use silver solder but I think you might run into trouble with the residual lead solder left on the fitting.

Zane

I wire brushed all of that lead solder stuff off of mine while heating it with my torch, then I brazed it.

I guarantee that it will NEVER break that brazing.

Lead acid core soldier IS for a person that does NOT know how to use a torch, flux, and do what is needed.

Radiator repair shops, or anyone else that knows how to solder, does NOT use that acid core soldier, they use solid core solder, and flux.

I did have a lot more confidence in you, Zane than that.

I still have confidence in your lift stuff.

But lead acid core solder is NOT where it is at.

You just dropped many points on my list.

Dunk, ... Zane pointed out that solid w/flux is better. Lately you been gittin' kinda jumpy onna our fren's.... it makes [u:c6538a11ce]you[/u:c6538a11ce] the one who's droppin' inna points.

Good point.

You are probably right.

I am not a fan of acid core soldier, and would never advocate it's use for anything, there are some rolls here that have been here since I was a kid, I have lived in the same house all of my life.

And as we all know, normal soldered joints on oil pickup tubes do break, and then you have to pull the oil pan to fix it, bad business, bad advice.

 

[Dan]

Thanks Dan. So I assume it would be best to hold the pickup tube upwards so the solder will flow downward with gravity and fill in the seam. Heck - I will give it a try - the worst that could happen is the solder does not seal it up and I have to take it somewhere...

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 07:27:04 12/07/07) Thanks Dan. So I assume it would be best to hold the pickup tube upwards so the solder will flow downward with gravity and fill in the seam. Heck - I will give it a try - the worst that could happen is the solder does not seal it up and I have to take it somewhere...

Dan

A properly applied solder joint (tube in socket) will flow upwards against gravity. It's called capillary action :roll: The key is enough heat to get both parts hot enough to melt the solder on their own. When you melt solder and "pour" it into a joint that won't keep it molten for a second or two you get a "cold solder joint" that doesn't hold. Or in the case of an electrical connection doesn't conduct well!

TOH

 

[Hobo,NC]

And all this time I thought you were on acid,,, don't tell you been save'n it up,,, my gosh hope I ain't around when you figger its time to use it

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 00:22:07 12/08/07) And all this time I thought you were on acid,,, don't tell you been save'n it up,,, my gosh hope I ain't around when you figger its time to use it

Hobo, You talkin to me, Zane, er Gay HorN?


Not much there to qualify that....


People say I'm no-good,
And crazy as a loon.
I get stoned in the morning,
I get drunk in the afternoon.
Kinda like my old blue tick hound,
I like to lay around in the shade,
An', I ain't got no money,
But I damn sure got it made.

'Cos I ain't askin' nobody for nothin',
If I can't get it on my own.
If you don't like the way I'm livin',
You just leave this bald-headed country boy alone.

Preacher man talkin' on the TV,
He's a-puttin' down the rock 'n' roll.
He wants me to send a donation,'Cos he's worried about my soul.
He said: "Jesus walked on the water,"And I know that is true,
But sometimes I think that preacher man,
Would like to do a little walkin', too.

But I ain't askin' nobody for nothin',
If I can't get it on my own.
You don't like the way I'm livin',
You just leave this bald-headed country boy alone.

Instrumental Break.

A poor girl wants to marry, And a rich girl wants to flirt.
A rich man goes to college,And a poor man goes to work.
A drunkard wants another drink of wine,And a politician wants a vote.
I don't want much of nothin' at all,But I will take another toke.

'Cos I ain't askin' nobody for nothin',If I can't get it on my own.
If you don't like the way I'm livin',
You just leave this bald-headed country boy alone.



I do make a good, well over 50k a year livin!!

And it ain't peddlin my information at $65 bucks a shot, on free information boards on the Internet.

I will sell you instructions, and a jig to use that “acid core” to soldier in yer points when you strip the screw in the plate on the distributor $65.


My Ole lady just got home tonight, she has been at the hospital 35 miles away for 3 days with her 80 year old Mom, who the nursing home let dehydrate.

I have had strep throat for about 10 days now.

I have been taking care of her 7 year old grand daughter that I call my kid, that I have raised since she was born, that has had strep troat also during this time, I think she brought it home from school.

My Ole lady had 10 kids fore I met her, one died in prison for I met her, and, I raised all the rest of them.

In the last 6 or 8 weeks all the rest of them have ended back living off of me.

Half of em are crack heads.

And that don't even count her crazy brother.

When yall folks start judging me, I bet not one of you is MAN enough to walk a mile in my shoes.

Jesus loves me, I should have been dead many years ago, there is a reason that I am still around, and that I can still post what I think on this board.

 

[Dunk]

Oh, yeah, anyone that don't like what I post is a SOB!!

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 00:59:48 12/08/07) Oh, yeah, anyone that don't like what I post is a SOB!!

Self made!!

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 01:16:09 12/08/07)

(quoted from post at 00:59:48 12/08/07) Oh, yeah, anyone that don't like what I post is a SOB!!

Self made!!

And I didn't even mention the check that dissapeared out of my check book after I went to bed last night, out of my desk drawer, an having to deal with the bank on that, and transfer my account to a new one.

I just want to go and ride my N tractor....

But I have about 3 or 4 vehicles in the yard that need worked on, and fixed in the AM.

Please, yall pray for me, I need it!!

 

[souNdguy]

Virtually all solders you can find for plumbing applications are silver.. and All if it is for potable water. You can also find rosin core silver solder in electrical supply houses.

Ever sweat soldered a copper water pipe? Same exact thing.

Preheat the work joint with the torch.. keep it moving to evenly heat it.. You would have pre fluxe dthe joint, and can apply more right before you apply the solder.

Onc ethe work joint is hot, get the solder out and unroll a long piece.. touch it to the joint, and move the flame back, and lead the solder.. the solder will melt and flow intot he heated joint.. and in fact will 'wick'.. the flux helps it stick and flow.

Past flux tubs are available anywhre mapp/propane torches usually are.. You can also get tube rosin flux from electronic supply houses.. either works.. though the past flux is a bit easier on a beginner... the more flux the better... Once the joint is completely wet/tinned pull the heat away and wait till the solder glazes over with a dull sheen.. that't is it cooling and setting. Silver soldering is easier than brazing mostly due to the lower work temps, and the fact that solder flows much more freely than sticky brass rods..

Brazing does have it's uses... you can't 'build up' with solder.. and brass is harder, and in applications where the heat range is near the solder melt point.. brass will be a superior choice.

soundguy

 

[Dan]

Thanks Sounder.

Dan