Tractor Fluid Compatibility 134D = J20C = Multi-G?

[flyingfrogt509]

I've tried to run the rabbit trail of the 134D Tractor/Trans fluid posts specifically for my Ford 555A. It looks like very few fluids list the 134D spec on them these days except for Valvoline VV813. The Valvoline description says "Oil Composition: Conventional OE Specification: John Deere J20C, Ford New Holland FNHA-2-C-201.00(134D), Case Corporation, Kubota UDT, Case New Holland Viscosity Grade/Weight: 10W-30" You'll notice the J20C spec included. Then there is the Ambra Multi G (no longer produced that says "Multi-G 134 Fluid (NH-410B) A Multi-Purpose hydraulic / transmission fluid Multi-G 134 is a single fluid for hydraulic systems, transmissions, differentials, wet brakes and PTO clutches." I've noticed that several of the newer fluids spec Multi-G compatible such as the TRIAX Agra UTTO XL Tractor Fluid.

So the question is does 134D = J20C = Multi-G when looking for options for the 555A tranny & rear end (and hydro tank to keep it simple)

The most obvious is that is the J20C spec is good enough, many fluids list that spec compared to 134D. Ambra Multi-G seems to be out there a little less but more so than 134D spec when listed on labels.

Maybe the only way to figure this out is to call the different companies and find out for sure. Maybe someone who knows more than simply what the manual says or what they've always done might be able to chime in. Maybe this is a really stupid question and I should be tarred and feathered for asking. Hopefully this doesn't spawn yet another fluid religious war.

Full disclosure, new owner to the 555A and my old Mahindra E350DI. I'm a glut for punishment.

 

[Jim.ME]

I find 134D on Mobile Delvac Tractor Hydraulic Fluid (formerly Mobilfluid 424), Traveller Premium Universal Transmission Hydraulic Fluid, Chevron 1000 THF, Harvest King Premium Trans-Hydraulic Oil, and the list of other manufacturers goes on.

The Valvoline product is UniTrac Fluid. VV813 is the part number for the 5-gallon pail of Valvoline UniTrac.

J20C is John Deere's latest spec. It is a wet brake/clutch fluid as are the others you are looking at. Performance is similar between such fluids. As with everything, some people have reported varying results between different manufacturer's products in their equipment.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I find 134D on Mobile Delvac Tractor Hydraulic Fluid (formerly Mobilfluid 424), Traveller Premium Universal Transmission Hydraulic Fluid, Chevron 1000 THF, Harvest King Premium Trans-Hydraulic Oil, and the list of other manufacturers goes on.

The Valvoline product is UniTrac Fluid. VV813 is the part number for the 5-gallon pail of Valvoline UniTrac.

J20C is John Deere's latest spec. It is a wet brake/clutch fluid as are the others you are looking at. Performance is similar between such fluids. As with everything, some people have reported varying results between different manufacturer's products in their equipment.

Ford M2C-134D (Multi-G) and John Deere J20C (Hygard) are basically equivalent specifications.

J20C is pretty much the guiding specification for all of the various companies formulating traditional UTFs.

The old Ford M2C-134D specification has been superceded multiple times and the current specification is CNH MAT 3540 (Ultraction).

The shelves are full of various brands of UTF that are interchangeable with all of those specifications/brandef products.

The additive packages used to formulate these oils all come from a handful of chemical companies that specialize in that business. One of the bigger cimpanies, Lubrizol, conducted an independent in-house comparison of some of the mainstream UTF offerings. The testing was both chemical composition and bench perfotmacees tests using test rigs and procedures from various OEMs but predominantly J20C. Mag 1, Travellers Premium, and Harvest King Premium all got high marks with Harvest King actually top of the heap.

Dan

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Only problem with using cheap oil in the 555A is that it can make the brakes chatter. If you don’t want to pay dealer prices , use UTF from Rural King and add a bottle of brake additive from CNH, about $20.

 

[flyingfrogt509]

Only problem with using cheap oil in the 555A is that it can make the brakes chatter. If you don’t want to pay dealer prices , use UTF from Rural King and add a bottle of brake additive from CNH, about $20.

My biggest concern was the transmission first, brakes second, & backhoe/loader third from my understanding of where the additives are most important. I've rebuilt car transmissions before and know the importance of the correct fluid viscosity and additives and for the types of clutch plates is paramount.

My assumption was if it is good enough in the transmission, it would be good enough in the rear end for the brakes. Is that a bad assumption based on needing to a a bottle of brake additive to the rear end for the brakes?

 

[TheOldHokie]

My biggest concern was the transmission first, brakes second, & backhoe/loader third from my understanding of where the additives are most important. I've rebuilt car transmissions before and know the importance of the correct fluid viscosity and additives and for the types of clutch plates is paramount.

My assumption was if it is good enough in the transmission, it would be good enough in the rear end for the brakes. Is that a bad assumption based on needing to a a bottle of brake additive to the rear end for the brakes?

In this day and age the tests formulators use for evaluating chatter and material compatability are pretty stsndardized.

Pick a product, put it in and operate the tractor. If you are getting brake chatter pour in some additive.

Dan

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Again, specifically on the 555A, of which I have 3, the primary concern is brake noise. This is because the disks are bonded paper, and the chattering is hard on them; it is major surgery to change them when they fail.

The universal fluid can be used as-is in the hydraulic system, since it is in a separate compartment. The only place you need the additive is the brakes on the tractor. That’s another good thing about cheap oil… you don’t need to be pouring $100 /pail oil with all the brake additives into the hydraulic system just to loose it on the ground via leaking cylinders.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Again, specifically on the 555A, of which I have 3, the primary concern is brake noise. This is because the disks are bonded paper, and the chattering is hard on them; it is major surgery to change them when they fail.

The universal fluid can be used as-is in the hydraulic system, since it is in a separate compartment. The only place you need the additive is the brakes on the tractor. That’s another good thing about cheap oil… you don’t need to be pouring $100 /pail oil with all the brake additives into the hydraulic system just to loose it on the ground via leaking cylinders.

Other than the crappy so called "yellow bucket 303" oils ALL of these modern oils contain anti-chatter/anti-squeal friction modifiers. There are plenty of other reasons why the 303 oils should be avoided like the plague. I see no reason to dose them before testing them. You may actually do more harm than good.

BTW - one of the main causes of brake chatter is water contamination.

Dan

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Other than the crappy so called "yellow bucket 303" oils ALL of these modern oils contain anti-chatter/anti-squeal friction modifiers. There are plenty of other reasons why the 303 oils should be avoided like the plague. I see no reason to dose them before testing them. You may actually do more harm than good.

BTW - one of the main causes of brake chatter is water contamination.

Dan

True, run it and see before adding, but there are a number of mfr’s that have the claim of all the necessary nutrients for brake chatter… imagine my surprise after changing the oil in my 555C , at 70$ a pail, and the brakes started squawking; previously never made a peep since we bought it in ‘89.

As far as water contamination, maybe, we never had it. All our Fords squawked at one time or another, and the phosphoric acid always cured it.

 

[Sean in PA]

Again, specifically on the 555A, of which I have 3, the primary concern is brake noise. This is because the disks are bonded paper, and the chattering is hard on them; it is major surgery to change them when they fail.

The universal fluid can be used as-is in the hydraulic system, since it is in a separate compartment. The only place you need the additive is the brakes on the tractor. That’s another good thing about cheap oil… you don’t need to be pouring $100 /pail oil with all the brake additives into the hydraulic system just to loose it on the ground via leaking cylinders.

The only place you need the additive is the brakes on the tractor.

That is true if it has a manual transmission, but if it has the torque converter trans, the clutch packs in the reverser at the front of hte transmission also need the friction modifiers.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

That is true if it has a manual transmission, but if it has the torque converter trans, the clutch packs in the reverser at the front of hte transmission also need the friction modifiers.

That stuff is so good, I tried it in the D4H, when hot the directional clutches would start groaning when shifting. There is something definitely wrong with that trans, can light a cigarette off the dipstick, but those clutches quieted down.

 

[flyingfrogt509]

Again, specifically on the 555A, of which I have 3, the primary concern is brake noise. This is because the disks are bonded paper, and the chattering is hard on them; it is major surgery to change them when they fail.

The universal fluid can be used as-is in the hydraulic system, since it is in a separate compartment. The only place you need the additive is the brakes on the tractor. That’s another good thing about cheap oil… you don’t need to be pouring $100 /pail oil with all the brake additives into the hydraulic system just to loose it on the ground via leaking cylinders.

Since you have 3 Ford 555A(s) can I simply ask you specifically what you use in all three compartments? (bucket hydro circuit, tranny, & rear end) I think I'd rather rely on your experience than hope that I figure out if a cheaper oil is working or not and then mess up the tranny or brakes. I don't mind spending the what looks like $130 per 5gal bucket of the Valvoline VV813 in the tranny & rear end if it keeps me out of trouble.

Learning a lot from this thread, thanks.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Mobile Delvac tractor hydraulic fluid meets your specs. $75 a 5g bucket...

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Since you have 3 Ford 555A(s) can I simply ask you specifically what you use in all three compartments? (bucket hydro circuit, tranny, & rear end) I think I'd rather rely on your experience than hope that I figure out if a cheaper oil is working or not and then mess up the tranny or brakes. I don't mind spending the what looks like $130 per 5gal bucket of the Valvoline VV813 in the tranny & rear end if it keeps me out of trouble.

Learning a lot from this thread, thanks.

If you’re cool with that, by all means use it.

I would just be cautious about dumping that expensive oil in the hydraulic system, depending on how much your machine leaks. But if it’s pretty oil-tight, then use it for the whole thing.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Mobile Delvac tractor hydraulic fluid meets your specs. $75 a 5g bucket...

Beat me to it. No need to spend that much for bsdically the Shell name.

Mobil Delvac THF is the current name for what used to be called Mobilfluid 424. It has a llong and proven record.

Dan

 

[Tom in Mo.]

I use the Valvoline in my hydro/wet brake machines. I bought a 5 gallon pail of Kubota UTF once and on the label it said manufactured by Valvoline so that was good enough for me.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I use the Valvoline in my hydro/wet brake machines. I bought a 5 gallon pail of Kubota UTF once and on the label it said manufactured by Valvoline so that was good enough for me.

Valvoline blends lots of different oils for lots of different OEMs. AFAIK Valvoline does not have a branded product thst matches the properties of Kubota SUDT2. Valvoline VV813 is roughly equivalent to the older Kubota UDT formulation.

Dan

 

[Tom in Mo.]

Valvoline blends lots of different oils for lots of different OEMs. AFAIK Valvoline does not have a branded product thst matches the properties of Kubota SUDT2. Valvoline VV813 is roughly equivalent to the older Kubota UDT formulation.

Dan

That's fine. I didn't say SUDT2. I said Kubota UDT (misspelled) and it performs as it should.

 

[TheOldHokie]

That's fine. I didn't say SUDT2. I said Kubota UDT and it performs as it should.

Well actually you said UTF which is why I commented. I have no doubt it performs just fine in your Kubota HST and have made that point many times in the endless UDT/SUDT2 debates on the orange tractor forum. There dozens of brands that can easily substitute for UDT. Not so much for SUDT2.

Dan

 

[Brandon.lykins]

Only problem with using cheap oil in the 555A is that it can make the brakes chatter. If you don’t want to pay dealer prices , use UTF from Rural King and add a bottle of brake additive from CNH, about $20.

What Brake additive do you recommend and how much? I use 16.3 Gallons in my trans/rearend