Tractor seized

[RonON]

Hello every one, I have a 1952 Ferguson TEA 2085 that has seized up. I was moving brush to a dump site with my trailer and it was working fine for 5 loads. Stopped & shut off the tractor to load up and when I tried to start it up to take the load away the tractor would not start. I am able to tow it in neutral. When I engage the starter it makes a small click but will not turn over the engine. The cable going to the starter gets warm when I engage the starter. The tractor is now negative ground and has an alternator. When I try to tow it with the tractor in gear it just drags the rear wheels in the gravel and will not turn over. I am unable to turn the engine over with the crank handle. When this originally occurred, there were no noises, clunks or other bad sounds made when I shut off the tractor. Since I didn't hear anything when I shut off the engine & the oil & other fluids are all at their proper levels, I don't think that the engine is seized but cannot determine this for sure. I tried to remove the starter but I am not able to remove it after taking out the bolts. It is firmly in place and will not budge. I tried prying it off, hitting it with a hammer & block of wood to try to loosen it but was unable to free it up or remove it. Is it possible that the starter has seized up on the ring gear? I have read that this occurs with other vehicles/engines. One site suggested putting a socket on the front nut and turning the engine counterclockwise to free up the starter. I was wondering if anyone has had this happen, how the issue was resolved and any other suggestions for resolving this problem. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ron

 

[Jim.ME]

Sounds like the starter is locked in the ring gear. Leave the bolts out of the starter, put it in high gear and rock it back and forth hard using a rear tire, that may free it. You could jack one wheel off the ground and block the other (front and rear) so the tractor doesn't move and rock the elevated tire.

 

[Hdonly]

I bought a TO30 that was locked up. Engine would not budge. I finally took a hammer and prybar and wiggled the starter out. Still would not move. I pulled the flywheel inspection cover off and working back and forth with a prybar I got it free. Took a magnet on a lonf spring handle and worked it down to the bottom of the housing working through the starter hole. Got the pieces from the starter gear and the broken nose cone out. The pieces had the flywheel jammed tight. New starter and the engine now runs.

Thought I better add that I didn't beat Hades out of the starte. Just used the hammer hit the starter lightly while I worked it around with the prybar.

This post was edited by Hdonly on 05/17/2023 at 09:22 am.

 

[John Deere D]

Hi...
Every Internal combustion engine has their own hidden bite you in the rearrrrrr.

One of my TEA 20's had a FLY WEIGHTS from the Governor fall off.....JAMMED between the Timing Chain and Crankshaft Sprocket..NEVER knew the weight had Jammed until I tried an engine start a week after I had it last running..Weight fell of drive plate after I had shut engine down

Place socket on the front Cap screw that holds / secures pulley (on Crankshaft)...
Try turning the engine over both CCW and CW.

Bob..

 

[John Deere D]

Info if Timing chain and associated parts are to be replaced
Bob...Owner TEA-20's.

Info I compiled when REPLACING Crank sprocket ,Cam sprocket and Timing Chain.
(1) 85 MM Bore Engine:

(2) Front Lip Oil Seal National /Federal Mogul Lip Seal # 472164V A SMALL amount of BLUE Silicone was placed around the inside bore of the front timing chain cover before Lip seal was installed:

(3) I installed a repair SLEEVE on the front drive Pulley, make DURA SLEEVE # 99175. The sealing area were the LIP SEAL makes contact was slightly grooved. Dura Sleeve specs. 1.745>1.753 Diam. # 68 Rockwell Hardness:

(4) On installation the Governor plunger shall be reseeded tight against the Flyweights and no weights shall be loose or hanging down:

(5) A small amount (only enough to make the surface shiny) of engine oil was added to the shaft of the governor PLUNGER as well as the timing chain:

(6)There are / was NO timing Marks on the NEW Sprockets. You may wish to line the timing marks up (facing each other) before you remove the sprockets:

(7)Place the old sprocket (CAM SPROCKET) on top of the new sprockets and accurately scribe the new sprockets as to the timing marks. There are FOUR holes in the hub of the CAM SPROCKET. Keep turning the old sprocket until the four holes and all teeth line up. These holes are slightly off set. I used several SHOULDERED cap screws to ensure I had the new and old sprockets properly aligned. You may have to flip the old sprocket over...see right up:

(8) It's good practice to measure the thickness of the hub of the old crankshaft sprocket and the new crankshaft sprocket as the teeth on the two sprockets should align for both proper operation and longevity.(there were shims between the old Crankshaft sprocket and the shoulder portion of the crankshaft):

Cheers
Bob..

 

[Ericp351]

1st. pull spark plugs and check fluids. Sounds like you are 90 per cent sure that trouble is starter related/ mechanical at time chain or ring gear. That leaves 10%- don't get bit if a cylinder is wet, et cetera.

 

[John Deere D]

12 Volt stater as 12 volt from factory......
OR
6 volt starter as 6 volt from factory.....

6 Volt starters (factor originals) engage on the FORWARD side of the FLYWHEEL/Ring Gear...

12 Volt starter (factor originals) engage Flywheel/Ring Gear from aft side of flywheel....

Bob...Owner several TEA-20's..(Parts Tractors)....and all have had the Governor flyweights leave the backing
plate and drop in between the crankshaft sprocket and the timing chain after engine was shut down..

 

[RonON]

Bob the starter is an original 12V starter. I have tried to rock the tractor with the bolts left in but was unsuccessful at resolving the issue. I don't think that a socket will fit on the crank nut due to limited space between the nut and the tractor frame in the front. Could fit a wrench so I'll try that. After taking out the bolts holding the starter in place & prying on the starter, I had a hard time lining up the bolts again to get them in. I'll try the rocking again with the bolts out then if not fixed will look at the governor weights as suggested by Bob. I'll keep plugging away at it and see what happens. Any other suggestions are welcome.
Thanks for the responses,
Ron

 

[Duner Wi]

RonON , Figure out how to remove the starter first.

 

[John Deere D]

The ORIGINAL Made in England Ferguson TEA-20 12 VOLT FACTORY starter engages the RING GEAR on the AFT of the FLY WHEEL....

NOT like the 6 volt starter.....engages the ring gear on the front of the forward face of the Fly Wheel.

The Ferguson TEA-20 12 Volt starter has to be moved away from the RING GEAR peripheral,then removed.

 

[RonON]

Bob the starter is an original 12V starter. I have tried to rock the tractor with the bolts left in but was unsuccessful at resolving the issue. I don't think that a socket will fit on the crank nut due to limited space between the nut and the tractor frame in the front. Could fit a wrench so I'll try that. After taking out the bolts holding the starter in place & prying on the starter, I had a hard time lining up the bolts again to get them in. I'll try the rocking again with the bolts out then if not fixed will look at the governor weights as suggested by Bob. I'll keep plugging away at it and see what happens. Any other suggestions are welcome.
Thanks for the responses,
Ron

 

[John Deere D]

Engage the PTO....

Turn PTO shaft CW and then CCW....

Bob...

 

[Leroy]

Did you see it register any oil pressure when you were using it before shutting it off? If the oil pump had just failed and before it would have started knocking just shutting it off and setting could have locked up crank. I know nothing on that model tractor. Mine was a T0-30

 

[RonON]

Well, finally got the old girl into the barn and took a good look at it. I had tried rocking it in both direction while in gear, no positive results. Today, I engaged the PTO, put an old extension on the PTO, tightened a pipe wrench on the extension with a longer piece of pipe on the wrench handle and as Bob suggested, turned the PTO CW and the CCW. No results, but on the second try with a little more force it let loose on the CW direction. The starter was now free and came out easily as it had always done before. Not sure if the starter will need to be looked at but the gear that meshes with the ring gear is s bit bashed up at the inner side. Not sure if it will return to its original position after it is engaged so will take it in to get it checked. Any suggestions regarding how to tell if the starter is still working properly would be appreciated. Thanks for all of the help so far.
Ron

 

[J.Wondergem]

I'd take the starter to a rebuilder and have them go thru it and put a new drive on it.

 

[John Deere D]

RonON ......Seems to be AWL..........?

 

[rotorwing90]

John Deere D/Bob-

Please forgive my hijacking of this thread but I believe I have a situation similar to this thread. To wit: 1965 MT 2135 industrial tractor with Z134 engine. I purchased non operatingin fact first MF I ve ever operated/ownedplenty of similar 8N s and 9N s, JD s and Farmall s.

Engine seized when purchased. I ve unseized engine to the point of being able to rotate it 5-10 degrees. Then it hits what I can best describe as a "hard stop", like when a piston stop tool is used or when a dropped or bent valve happens. I ve pulled the head and no bent valves or foreign objects found in any of the cylinders.

My thoughts at this point: the hard stop is not from the bottom end (crank, main & rod bearings, journals) since the engine rotates it s 5-10 degrees with minimal effort. I m thinking something connected to the cam shaft: camshaft lifters, oil pump, governor, distributor gear (I just pulled the distributor-gear is intact).

Why I m piggybacking on this thread: when you had your governor failure(s), were you able to rotate the engine or was there a "hard stop"?

Thanks.

Dennis in the Texas Panhandle

 

[rotorwing90]

I wish to do a follow up on my query on this thread: I was able to get the engine of my MF 2135 with the Continental Z134 engine to rotate. It is now rotating the full 360 degrees. The culprit? There was some corrosion in the top of the four cylinders that was acting as the "hard stop". I dismissed it as not substantial enough. But I went ahead and removed it and viola! The engine now rotates.