Tractor Won't Crank

[PMILLS]

I hope I am in the right forum. If I'm not, please excuse me - I'm a new member of the site.

I bought a place here in OK and a tractor came with the place. Its a Ford 8N, 9N 0r 2N. The old boy who sold it to me spruced the thing up, but mechanically? Who knows. I saw it run in January, so I know it can. S

Here is a two-part question:

1. How do I distinguish between the models? I do have a green coloured "Service Manual For Owners and Mechanics Model 8N and 9N". It had a 12 V battery in it that croaked in the bittter cold this winter, so I replaced it with a 12V Durastart with 540 CCA and CA of 635 @ 32F. Is this okay?

Now the final question, also in two parts:

2. The tractor will not crank. Its dead as a hammer. Nada - nothing happens when one turns the key.

Any ideas where I should start to fix this doggoned thing? Any way to make 'er run w/o a lot of hassle - like maybe crossing the starter poles with a screwdriver, or maybe a real fix like a new starter or wiring or all of the above?

Lads, I gotta mow some acreage and now. Its getting bad.

Thanks in advance for the assist!

 

[JMOR]

Answers/solutions/procedures will differ, depending on what you have, so go here & determine what you have for starting point.
http://www.oldfordtractors.com/idhistory.htm

 

[Tom N MS]

3 speed = 9N/2N might have 8N motor

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" 1. How do I distinguish between the models?"

Click on the link. John Smith's site will tell you all about the history & models.

http://www.oldfordtractors.com/idhistory.htm

" I do have a green coloured "Service Manual For Owners and Mechanics Model 8N and 9N"."

Click on the link below & check out tip # 39 for all the manuals you will need.

" 2. The tractor will not crank. Its dead as a hammer. "

Charge the battery. (see tip # 60)

You need a strong battery to:

1. Close the solenoid

2. Spin the starter

3. Engage the bendix

4. Provide voltage to the coil.

As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark. If the battery is almost totally dead, all you will hear is the solenoid clicking.

In addition to charging the battery, chances are you need new cables as well (tip # 41). And, don't forget to clean all the grounds, to include the mating area between the starter & the block.


The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition.

" Nada - nothing happens when one turns the key"

Unless some dumb PO has replaced your key switch w/ an incorrect 3 position switch, the key will NOT engage the starter. That's what the thumb switch on top of the transmission is for.

Does the starter engage when you turn the key like a car? If so, you have another set of problems.
75 Tips

 

[shane12970]

.
not trying to be smart butt ... you do know its push button start? u turn key on then push a button... should be down around the gear shift or somewhere around the gauges

 

[shane12970]

Bruce beat me to it

 

[PMILLS]

Thanks for that boys. I did see the button and tried it. No soap. Checking the other stuff out now.

Thanks to both of you - I appreciate it.

 

[PMILLS]

Thanks for that.... as I mentioned below, I did see it, checked it out, couldn't exactly figure it out - but, I did turn the key and hit the button. Tried it 3 times. Nada.

Oh well, looks like I'll have to check all the rest of the suggestions out. Of course, it would be parked in the back of the shop where there's bad light and its hotter than a depot stove. Whew! No fun... well, a little fun maybe.

 

[HCooke]

Is the trans in neutral?

 

[PMILLS]

Thanks for asking - yes, it appears to be in neutral. There is free-play in the shifter left to right, so far as I can tell it is in neutral. Seems to have 3 forward gears and a reverse.

Once again, thanks for your thoughts.

 

[PMILLS]

Okay, here's what I finally figured out:

1. The serial number took forwever to find. This, because its been painted over with the thickest red paint ever made. I had to take the paint off to read it. Still, I am unsure of the number. [b:f3e4737a22] It is stamped on in a "wavy-gravy" manner, but I think its correct. It is: N9N9800.[/b:f3e4737a22] From the resources you and others provided I learned that it is likely a 9N.

I think it was all gray to begin with - might be wrong. I don't think so, however. Paint now is like an early model, but correct? Nah... .

2. Tranny seems to have 3 forward gears and reverse.

3. The starter key has two positions.

4. The tranny is in neutral.

5. It has a brand new (bought yesterday) battery at the Farm Supply store. CA at 32F is 635, CCA at 0F is 540. Its a 12 V, and that's what was on the tractor from the outset. Guess somebody changed it over.

6. Batty cables are very suspect - bad condition. The wires are large gauge, but the connectors are corroded and the POS is actually broken, making for a poor connection to POS.

I bent and beat those into submission just to get 'em tight on the post6. Carburator is leaking gasoline - not very much, but some. It will have to be repaired pronto.

That's about what I know. Fluid levels are fine.

STILL WONT CRANK THO

P. Wmancatcher

 

[PMILLS]

JAMOR, just listed what I'm after in terms of gen. info to the last spot on the blog. Thanks you very much for your assistance. Now just need find out where the real problem lies and get it to run.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Tip 76 learn how to use a voltmeter... It does not nnalert any other tips but it may keep you from disassembling your tractor to maybe find the root cause of your issue...

 

[PMILLS]

Thank you - gret suggestion. Took mine out and found somebody smashed it when i moved into this place back in Feb. Great, huh?

I'll get a new one and get after it tomorrow - see if any juice is flowing anywhere.

 

[PMILLS]

BTW, just want to thank you Bruce for the hard work yuo have done on the "75 Tips". This is precisely the kind of information I need, going forward. Very nice work!

I.

By nature I am very analytical, careful, and I detest half-a#@**&@ work. There has evidently been a lot of that on this tractor. It Looks to be 1942 production 9N, having serial No. N9N98800.

I"ve been reading through the "TIPS" and hope to have most of them committed to memory by tomorrow. That way, I can work on this rascal and avoid bothing you guys constantly.

I don"t want to consume too much of your time, but I have made these observations and I"m asking myself a few more questions:

1. The carb is leaking - not badly, but enough that it scares that heck out of me. Should I undertake to rebuild this part myself or send it to a pro-shop for rebuild?

2. When turning the two-position ignition key, when - precisely - do I push the starter button? It is located right next to the shift lever. Maybe I"m using the wrong sequence.

3. This tractor sat in my shop for months in bitter, bitter cold. You mention the loss of residual magnetism vis-a-vis the generator. The battery died some time back. So... I pulled it. Bought a new battery yesterday. So, it has been setting for almost 4 months with no battery.

I am thinking here of TIP #23:

" In this vein, you write: "If you ever do any work on the charging system on your N, (remove the battery, disconnect the generator, etc.), you should re-polarize the generator just in case the generator loses its residual magnetism when the battery is removed from the circuit." "... with the engine off, use a set of metal pliers to momentarily jump across the cutout; when it sparks, it is polarized."

I"ve used this process on starters many times to start a dead truck. I take it that this tip DOES apply in my case. Should I do this as soon as I have hit on the other issues and obtain a new voltmeter?

Thank you once again Bruce - and EVERYONE here who took time out of their day to help. You boys remind me of guys around here - real, down-to earth. I appreciate every one of you. As time goes by, I hope I can help others too - I am a retired gunsmith with very good metalworking, metalfinishing and general manual skills.

Thanks Again

Its supposed to rain tomorrow - cooler weather for me to troubleshoot this further!

 

[Bruce (VA)]

You're welcome. Glad you found the tips helpful.

" The carb is leaking - not badly, but enough that it scares that heck out of me. Should I undertake to rebuild this part myself or send it to a pro-shop for rebuild?"

As a gunsmith, you will have no problems rebuilding the carb. do a search on "carb rebuild jmor" Gary & Jesse did a great tutorial on the subject.

But.......

How much time & money do you want to invest to rebuild one carb? By the time you get a quality kit & the solvent, you're in for at least $60. My local shop (last time I had one done) was $80.

I just have carbs rebuilt by:

Automotive Manufacturers Inc
2400 N Lombardy St Richmond, VA 23220
(804) 321-6861

They do mail order work. And they also rebuild clutches, pressure plates, water pumps, alternators, generators, starters & reline brakes.

"When turning the two-position ignition key, when - precisely - do I push the starter button? It is located right next to the shift lever. Maybe I"m using the wrong sequence"

The two circuits are separate. The ignition switch, if it is OEM, has only two wires & just completes the circuit from the battery to the coil. The thumb switch, if it is OEM, is not electrical. It's mechanical. When you push it in, it manually closes the circuit between the starter and battery.

So just turn the key on & press the thumb switch.

" This tractor sat in my shop for months in bitter, bitter cold. You mention the loss of residual magnetism vis-a-vis the generator. The battery died some time back. So... I pulled it. Bought a new battery yesterday. So, it has been setting for almost 4 months with no battery."

That's not your problem. All polarization does is allow the generator to charge. Chances are very good you don't have a generator; you probably have an alternator, right? Find out before you try tip 23 on an alternator. If you try to polarize an alternator, you will let the smoke out.

" I"ve used this process on starters many times to start a dead truck."

Nope, not the same thing. You were jumping the solenoid to start a dead truck......not polarizing a generator (tip # 23)

So........

Buy a voltmeter.

Buy a can of starting fluid.

Buy a battery charger if you don't have one & charge the battery.

Replace the battery cables & clean all the grounds.

Post back w/ results or more questions.
75 Tips

 

[PMILLS]

Once again - thanks in advance for everyone's assist - esp. Bruce.

Here are results thus far:

1. Got lucky and found a farm-supply very close by with a huge 9N parts inventory as well as many complete 8,9 & 2 Ford tractors (and many others as well) for resto or parts, as appropriate. More importantly, the owner is a veteran of maybe 50 yrs with these old tractors and he is most helpful - like you guys.

A. The tractor is equipped with a 6v generator.

B. There was no 12v conversion ever done. The previous owner just stuck a 12v battery on the tray and hooked it up. What is more, the "new" 12v battery I put in its place turned out to be almost 100% dead. I tried to charge it to no avail. Within 45 min. it was puking-out gobs of acidic water. Not good. It goes back for a refund.

C. I obtained the correct ground strap and cables to replace the old worn ones.

D. I found that the wiring, in general, is in bad shape. I will check the ga. and replace the bad ones that I notice as I go. Someone detailed the tractor and then painted it, disguising problems in the process rather than dealing with them.


E. I am picking-up the correct 6v battery tomorrow morning.

Am I correct in thinking that a 12v would crank it, but then die an early death as a result of being hooked-up to a 6v generator setup that cannot support a 12v?

F. While the tractor was cosmetically "restored" (in a sense), I see now that MANY problems were overlooked - leaking carb, frayed and worn wires everywhere, an oil leak, etc... . So, I'm going to take it down to the last screw and spring and rebuild it properly. First, I've got to get it running and mow. Pronto. ASAP.

I. In the final analysis, there are still a lot of suspects as to the root of the problem. The farm-supply owner suggested that i pull the starter and see if its fighting with the flywheel. Any tips on this procedure?

J. The fan-belt is horribly worn and about a New York minute away from breaking.

The weird thing is that the Generator is NOT squarely situated as it should be. Rather, it is canted to the right about 20-25 degrees. How is this possible? I see how it is affixed. I just don't get it. It ought to run straight and true to the other pulley - but it (the belt) is twisted slightly causing excess wear).

K. Any words of wisdom as I undertake to pull the starter and check the flywheel issue and/or on repair of this fan-belt deal and install of new belt?

L. Bought a new/old analog multimeter. Somewhere in this great site there has to be a list of all the readings at every stop in the electrical circuit. Switches, resistors, etc... . I'll bone-up on that and get a digital if need be.

So... here goes nuthin! Will appreciate any tips, tricks of the trade, speculation, advice, theories, etc... if there are any that have not already been put forward.

I can never thank you boys enough - you're the best.

P. MILLS

 

[NNP]

Before you tear apart stuff...
with a good battery in, and checking the path of the big cables from battery to starter switch to starter...and the other one to ground....
hop up in the seat and shift the shifter into a gear and then back to neutral and push the big button. nothing?
While staying in neutral!..move the shifter around some as you are pushing the big button.
That neutral safety system gets worn and sometimes on a 9N it takes a little shifter wiggle to get it all lined up.

Personally, if the wiring looks dangerous, it is,...I redo it.
When I get a 9N and just want to get it running.
The usual wiring mess gets unhooked except for the battery cables.
The big battery cables running like they should...
One wire from battery power, thru a switch, thru a ballast resistor, to the coil.
That's it to get it running.
Charging and lights get fixed later depending on what system it has.