Using diesel fuel in 3pt hydraulics

[FarmerBlair]

I have a 1968 Ford 4000 3cyl gas. When cold, the hydraulic 3pt lift does not raise until maybe 10 minutes after the tractor has been running at mid-high range rpm. If it just sits at idle, but warm, it doesn't work until I raise the rpm's up to mid-high range for at least a couple minutes Then works fine as long as I periodically lower and raise the 3pt. If I turn off the tractor and it sits for maybe 30 minutes or more, 3pt does the same thing where it won't raise for several minutes (even though still warm). Once working, the lift has plenty of power and holds up implements fine. I thought maybe the unloading valve is sticking.

I talked to a New Holland service rep and he suggested replacing the oil with kerosene or diesel fuel, and to run it maybe 30 minutes to get it warm. Then, add fresh oil after removing the kerosene/diesel wash. I asked the service rep could that hurt the hyd pump. He said no, and added that I would not be running it for prolonged period in the diesel. Has anyone done this? For the most part, a search online hasn't shown much support in doing this.

Related to that, I asked about how much to split the tractor (no loader attached) to replace the spin-on hyd filter and maybe clean the pump screen. The NH rep said it would be 2-3 days labor at about $80 per hour. I said you don't mean 8 hrs per day, and he said yes. So I laughed and said I'd try the fuel washout first.

 

[SVcummins]

Diesel fuel does a good job of cleaning out the system

 

[Check Break]

(quoted from post at 23:00:19 11/13/20)

I talked to a New Holland service rep and he suggested replacing the oil with kerosene or diesel fuel, and to run it maybe 30 minutes to get it warm. Then, add fresh oil after removing the kerosene/diesel wash.

I asked about how much to split the tractor (no loader attached) to replace the spin-on hyd filter and maybe clean the pump screen. The NH rep said it would be 2-3 days labor at about $80 per hour. I said you don't mean 8 hrs per day, and he said yes.

Why do you want to split the tractor. If you want to clean the screen, pull the top cover and have at it. The hardest part is avoiding damage to the hydraulic line above the flow control.

If your service rep needs 24 hours to split your tractor and put it back together, he smokes a lot of crack. It sounds like you have a suction leak somewhere and your pump is losing prime. Where is your pump, engine block or center housing.

If your oil has a lot of water in it, you can wash out the transmission and center housing with kerosene and a Hudson sprayer. Just spray and drain out the bottom and replace the oil. If there's no water in your oil, just drain and replace. Your service rep is why no one buys blue anymore.

 

[Majorman]

Standard Ford recommended method of cleaning the housings was to drain oil and refill
with kerosene with about half a gallon of oil mixed. Do not use diesel as diesel will
affect the rubber "O" rings and seals. Run around for about half an hour and then drain
and refill with oil. I have done it many times in my Ford service career.

Ford also recommended putting half a gallon of kerosene in tractors with piston pumps
to slightly dilute the oil and help with hydraulic flow in cold weather.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Use Mineral Spirits to clean with, any system, on your tractor. I buy in 5 gal buckets at NAPA. It is the same stuff as plain old Paint Thinner and Charcoal Lighter Fluid. Also, some fellas use a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. Mineral Spirits is petroleum based and will NOT harm any internal systems.


Tim Daley(MI)

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 07:49:29 11/14/20) Use Mineral Spirits to clean with, any system, on your tractor. I buy in 5 gal buckets at NAPA. It is the same stuff as plain old Paint Thinner and Charcoal Lighter Fluid. Also, some fellas use a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. Mineral Spirits is petroleum based and will NOT harm any internal systems.


Tim Daley(MI)

A 3 cylinder 4000 has a common sump for the hydraulics, rear axle and internal wet brakes. Plus the rear axle is a double reduction unit that has bearings in the planetary gear system that also get lubricated by the same fluid. I would not use straight mineral spirits in a system like that even for a short time just to flush it out. It could wash the lubricant off of key areas that might get damaged later before the final oil fill has had a chance to get everywhere. It might also lead to premature disintegration of the brake linings.

 

[Old Ford Mechanic]

Used fuel to clean the system many times. Won't hurt a thing to use it. Drive the tractor around a few minutes
and get the system warmed up before draining. I would not pull a plow with it in there but, it will help to flush
it out. Make sure you have the correct hydraulic oil to put back in. Some guys will put 90wt. gear lube in and it
is simply too heavy for hydraulics in cold conditions.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I would rate the unloader as a prime suspect... I doubt a flush is gonna be your fix : (...

Labor it is what it is $80 is cheap by todays standards NO I am not defending him as it always turns out to be a project on older anything...

 

[FarmerBlair]

Check Break:
[Why do you want to split the tractor. If you want to clean the screen, pull the top cover and have at it.]
I have had the top cover off. The filter is at the back near the bottom of the housing. I've tried; there is no way of getting to it without splitting the tractor. The manual says to have Ford replace the filter when when splitting to service the pump or other issues. I tried cleaning the screen as best as I could with diesel fuel, but there is only about an inch between screen and housing so I couldn't do a very thorough job of it.

[Where is your pump, engine block or center housing.] Pump is in housing under topcover.

[If your oil has a lot of water in it, you can wash out the transmission]. When I bought the tractor about a year ago, I have cleaned surfaces in the housing as best I could with diesel fuel with the topcover off. There was some water in the oil, but not too bad. Then flushed a couple times with it running with some fresh oil. I never ran it with the diesel it in though. Thanks for your idea for using the sprayer!

 

[sotxbill]

I see this mostly where the pump is worn out and cant pull a vacuum. But can be a leak on the suction side. I'm not sure your working on the right thing... just my 2 cents...

 

[FarmerBlair]

Thanks for all your replies. Combining your ideas, I thought I'd first try running diesel fuel with half gallon hyd oil mixed in through the system for 30 minutes. Dean's point on the other systems sharing the oil sump has me be a bit more conservative on running straight fuel or kerosene through the system. If that doesn't help, I may try straight diesel.

Question: Rather than taking the waste washout fuelil mix somewhere for disposal, is there any problem with just screening and adding it to the fuel in my 3cyl diesel Ford 3500?

 

[shaun wallace]

Whitch transmission does it have? 8 speed or Select o Speed. If selecto has engine driven pump whitch has bad seal. They do have to be split to get suction screen out. Should only take a day to do.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 08:40:46 11/14/20) Used fuel to clean the system many times. Won't hurt a thing to use it. Drive the tractor around a few minutes
and get the system warmed up before draining. I would not pull a plow with it in there but, it will help to flush
it out. Make sure you have the correct hydraulic oil to put back in. Some guys will put 90wt. gear lube in and it
is simply too heavy for hydraulics in cold conditions.

Again, the 3 cylinder 4000 has internal wet brakes and you MUST use a UTF fluid that is made for use with wet brakes and/or clutches or the brake material will deteriorate rapidly. Do not use 90 wt. gear oil or "hydraulic oil". It must say on the label that it is designed for use with wet brakes and/or clutches.

 

[FarmerBlair]

Sotxbill,

[I see this mostly where the pump is worn out and cant pull a vacuum. But can be a leak on the suction side.]

Thing is, the lift seems strong lifting heavy implements, and responds very quickly to moving the lift sector lever. That is, once it gets past the non-responsive period when not being used for a while. Maybe that's no indication of whether a pump is wearing out, I don't know.

Also, and this may have no bearing, but before I got the tractor it had a forklift attached to the rear of the tractor for years, and maybe since it was new. So the hydraulic 3pt was rarely if ever used (I had to add upper/lower lift arms and related stuff separately).

 

[FarmerBlair]

Sorry Sean, I mistakenly gave Dean credit for your reply about the other systems sharing the oil sump!

 

[FarmerBlair]

Shaun,
[Whitch transmission does it have? 8 speed or Select o Speed.]
It is an 8 speed.

 

[Destroked 450]

You said it had a fork lift on it and the 3 point hadn't been used for several years.
With that in mind I'd say the control valve is sticking, I've had that issue before, lift takes a while to respond after it sets, once it starts working it's fine until you shut it off again.
Pulled the lift top and cleaned the control valve, also checked linkage adjustment, lift worked great after the lift top was reinstalled.
If the lift top hasn't been off in a while or you have no history of it being worked it would be a good time to replace the lift piston o-ring while the top is off.

 

[sotxbill]

(quoted from post at 04:50:17 11/14/20) Standard Ford recommended method of cleaning the housings was to drain oil and refill
with kerosene with about half a gallon of oil mixed. Do not use diesel as diesel will
affect the rubber "O" rings and seals. Run around for about half an hour and then drain
and refill with oil. I have done it many times in my Ford service career.

Ford also recommended putting half a gallon of kerosene in tractors with piston pumps
to slightly dilute the oil and help with hydraulic flow in cold weather.

funny as the kerosine is number 1 diesel in some cases, jet fuel, or distilled off just a bit higher than number 2 diesel?????

 

[FarmerBlair]

Thanks Destroked on your suggestion about the control valve sticking. Cleaning that part may be the next thing to try if flushing the system does not improve the situation. Can't say I would look forward to pulling off that topcover again though... HEAVY! And, you can't just lift it straight up without damaging something.

 

[riveroadrat]

X2 on the unloading valve.