Vermeer 605C baler

[burnsg2003]

Are these balers any good. I know they are old but I have a neighbor that has it just used last summer. Been looking for baler most are out of my price range. What should the baler be worth. Any comments or advice appreciated

 

[paul]

The 605F started the open throat baler design, and works reasonably well. I ran one for years. I see them go $600-1600.

The older designs like the C I have not been around, but they are the older closed throat, which is much more fussy on the moisture and consistency of the material being baled. From all I hear and read. I see those going a few hundred to 600 bucks, I would think a while about buying one of these older designs.

Paul

 

[DanielW]

You want to stick to the F series or later. The older closed-throat series like the C just aren't worth the trouble, and typically sell for scrap price (or less). Vermeer's F and G series are quite capable (as far as older round balers go) , and usually available pretty cheap. I bought a 504G 4x5 as a backup baler a couple of years ago for $1000, and it does a dandy job.

 

[Texasmark]

What's the difference physically between the open and closed throat balers.....how do you tell the difference? I had a Hesston 5560 I think I recall the number correctly and it was very hard to get a bale started. Sold it and bought a JD 530 and it was a walk in the park. Was curious but didn't know how to tell the difference, and wasn't sure if throat opening was the difference. The belts were 4" on the Hesston and 7" on the JD, not knowing if that had anything to do with it. The JD did make a really nice bale.

 

[DRussell]

What's the difference physically between the open and closed throat balers.....how do you tell the difference? I had a Hesston 5560 I think I recall the number correctly and it was very hard to get a bale started. Sold it and bought a JD 530 and it was a walk in the park. Was curious but didn't know how to tell the difference, and wasn't sure if throat opening was the difference. The belts were 4" on the Hesston and 7" on the JD, not knowing if that had anything to do with it. The JD did make a really nice bale.

Wider belts, no gap between the belts and a tread design (usually a chevron style) on the belts all help with starting a bale and making a nicer looking bale.

The open throat vs closed throat design is more a difference of capacity, i.e., an open throat machine can more easily take a larger windrow as I understand them.

Used to have a neighbor with a very old round baler, I believe a Hesston, but not positive. Think ancient design, one of the first ones built. It had very narrow 3 or 4 inch belts and large gaps between the belts. He torched off all the metal guides that kept the belts straight and replaced the belts with modern wide belts with a chevron design and not more than a half inch of gap between the belts. Those new belts made a different machine out of it. With the narrow belts he would fight and fight to start a bale. With the new belts, he never had a problem starting a bale. The machine still made a loosish bale compared to a modern machine, and it still didn't have the capacity of a modern machine, but it would start a bale rolling without any problem.

 

[DanielW]

Closed throat feeds the windrow up through a reduced/compression area before going into the chamber, whereas open throat puts it (more or less) directly into the bale chamber. Most closed throat designs had a floor belt that would transfer the windrow back into the bale chamber. There's a night and day difference between an open and closed throat, both in terms of overall design and how well they operate.

If you're looking at the older open-throat Vermeers like the F and G series, you should note a lot of folks also complained of bale starting issues with them (though not as bad as closed-throat balers). 99.9% of complaints on the F and G series were due to incorrect setup and adjustment. Those F and G series have a 'starter roll' with flaps above the pickup that helps feed the product into the bale chamber. Keeping the proper distance adjustment between teeth and the starter roll flaps (and distance between windguard and teeth) was critical. Folks who had issues with those F and G series generally followed the same pattern: When they set the pickup height for their tractor drawbar, they adjusted the reel height rather than the baler drawbar (on these Vermeers you adjusted the drawbar, not the reel - unlike most balers). When they adjusted the reel height, the distance between the teeth and starter flaps was incorrect, and the starter roll would kick hay back out. To solve this, they removed flaps from the starter roll. Then it would start bales, but occasionally build up hay behind the windguard because the starter flaps didn't feed it in to the chamber consistently. To solve this, they removed the windguard hold-down, which prevented it building up behind the windguard, but made is so hay would ride up over the pickup when starting a bale. By the time they were done with it, they wouldn't' start a bale worth a dang, and it would be 1000 times worse if the hay was even slightly damp, so those balers got a false reputation of only working in extremely dry hay.

When adjusted properly, those older Vermeer open-throat F and G series started bales just fine(ish). They'd even bale wet hay. Massey re-badged those earlier Vermeer open-throats as their own balers, and even offered their own roll scraper kit for making wet bales (just like the roll scraper option Deere offers for wet/silage balers).

 

[Tx Jim]

JD closed throat rd balers models 500,410 & 510 had rubber & metal rollers(see photo below) that hay must pas through IE be compressed before entering bale forming chamber. Those balers were very picky when it came to hay moisture over 15%. Also if grass burrs were present the burrs would stick to rubber compression roller & catch twine causing it to wrap on compression roller instead of the bundle of hay in the bale chamber. I would really hate to have to operate a closed throat rd baler again!!

 

[paul]

Closed throat feeds the windrow up through a reduced/compression area before going into the chamber, whereas open throat puts it (more or less) directly into the bale chamber. Most closed throat designs had a floor belt that would transfer the windrow back into the bale chamber. There's a night and day difference between an open and closed throat, both in terms of overall design and how well they operate.

If you're looking at the older open-throat Vermeers like the F and G series, you should note a lot of folks also complained of bale starting issues with them (though not as bad as closed-throat balers). 99.9% of complaints on the F and G series were due to incorrect setup and adjustment. Those F and G series have a 'starter roll' above the pickup that helps feed the product into the bale chamber. Keeping the proper distance adjustment between teeth and the starter roll (and distance between windguard and teeth) was critical. Folks who had issues with those F and G series generally followed the same pattern: When they set the pickup height for their tractor drawbar, they adjusted the reel height rather than the baler drawbar (on these Vermeers you adjusted the drawbar, not the reel - unlike most balers). When they adjusted the reel height, the distance between the teeth and starter flaps was incorrect, and the starter roll would kick hay back out. To solve this, they removed flaps from the starter roll. Then it would start bales, but occasionally build up hay behind the windguard because the starter flaps didn't feed it in to the chamber consistently. To solve this, they removed the windguard hold-down, which prevented it building up behind the windguard, but made is so hay would ride up over the pickup when starting a bale. By the time they were done with it, they wouldn't' start a bale worth a dang, and it would be 1000 times worse if the hay was even slightly damp, so those balers got a false reputation of only working in extremely dry hay.

When adjusted properly, those older Vermeer open-throat F and G series started bales just fine(ish). They'd even bale wet hay. Massey re-badged those earlier Vermeer open-throats as their own balers, and even offered their own roll scraper kit for making wet bales (just like the roll scraper option Deere offers for wet/silage balers).

Two night and day differences on the 605F:

There are rubber strips, flaps, on the roller above where the hay feeds in. Those rubber strips need to be new, fresh, square, and firm. Not curled back, wore rounded.

The teeth on the pickup feed in and start the bale pretty much directly. They also need to be fresh strong straight and all there. Any missing or bent or weak teeth instantly hurt the bale starting.

As you say they are an old baler they dont start a bale easily in some conditions (very dry long hay thick windrow), but these 2 items are critical. I about couldn’t use my 605F one year, and it was all my fault.

I fixed up these 2 issues and it worked fine again.

Paul

 

[Texasmark]

Wider belts, no gap between the belts and a tread design (usually a chevron style) on the belts all help with starting a bale and making a nicer looking bale.

The open throat vs closed throat design is more a difference of capacity, i.e., an open throat machine can more easily take a larger windrow as I understand them.

Used to have a neighbor with a very old round baler, I believe a Hesston, but not positive. Think ancient design, one of the first ones built. It had very narrow 3 or 4 inch belts and large gaps between the belts. He torched off all the metal guides that kept the belts straight and replaced the belts with modern wide belts with a chevron design and not more than a half inch of gap between the belts. Those new belts made a different machine out of it. With the narrow belts he would fight and fight to start a bale. With the new belts, he never had a problem starting a bale. The machine still made a loosish bale compared to a modern machine, and it still didn't have the capacity of a modern machine, but it would start a bale rolling without any problem.

I think I recall my Hesston having wide gaps between the 4" belts. Recall when switching to the JD 530, I couldn't see the twine on the bale like the Hesston which was easy to see and helped me realize that I didn't forget to tie before ejecting the roll......which has happened on a few occasions......a few....thank goodness.