Vicker vain pump growling

[pfeathers]

I finally have the tractor together. Fresh iso46 hydraulic fluid. No leaks but the vicker vane pump growls very loudly. It popped off the head on one of the 4 bolts that hold the pump together.

Are these pumps serviceable? Any thoughts about the growling. Tractor actually works pretty good and I am surprised as it has been apart for a few years.

This post was edited by pfeathers on 10/17/2021 at 09:21 pm.

 

[pfeathers]

 

[wore out]

(quoted from post at 20:10:22 10/17/21) I finally have the tractor together. Fresh iso46 hydraulic fluid. No leaks but the vicker vain pump growls very loudly. It popped off the head on one of the 4 bolts that hold the pump together.

Are these pumps serviceable? Any thoughts about the growling. Tractor actually works pretty good and I am surprised as it has been apart for a few years.

This is an "open center" system and the pump shouldn't be making noise/building pressure unless one of the valves on the loader is being operated or something is "plumbed" wrong.

DOUBT it's a pump problem. Something is not right after the pump causing it to operate under extreme pressure and destroy itself.

 

[pfeathers]

All controls seem to function properly. Plumbing has not changed.
[video play=false:12a03380d3]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/videos/mvvideo83332.mov[/video:12a03380d3]

 

[HarryVanderpool]

These pumps are serviceable.
The vanes are installed with rotation in mind.
Not being sure of the application of the pumps previous installation puts the rotation in question.
IF rotation is reversed, vanes need to be turned 180 degrees.
There should be no excess noise from the pump.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 23:10:22 10/17/21) I finally have the tractor together. Fresh iso46 hydraulic fluid. No leaks but the vicker vane pump growls very loudly. It popped off the head on one of the 4 bolts that hold the pump together.

Are these pumps serviceable? Any thoughts about the growling. Tractor actually works pretty good and I am surprised as it has been apart for a few years.

This post was edited by pfeathers on 10/17/2021 at 09:21 pm.

Check for a restricted oil supply. If the pump is bad I would not waste time or money on it. Replace it with a new $125 gear pump.

Dan

 

[pfeathers]

This is not a new installation. The loader and pump came with the tractor. I have seen other 8ns with davis loaders with a similar
pump layout. The pump and associated plumbing and filter container was not taken apart by me.

Given the particular plumbing on the pump, it can only be installed one way. In fact the filter reservoir sits on its side, I tried
to figure out how to mount the pump with the filter upright and it just can't be done given the space it sits in and the plumbing on
the pump (return line and pressure line). The only thing that has changed is that I went with a baxter paper filer (MF 671 163 M91
cross reference from Davis Parts Book) as I could not find the old sock filter.

The bolt that sheared off, I could have an explanation. I noticed when I was cleaning up the pump that one bolt was new, at least
compared to the other 3. It could be that the bolt was over torqued by previous owner. It could be that he put the innards in
backwards. If the innards were put in backwards would the pump even work? The loader operates well, it is just noisy.

I am going to have to take it apart to get that sheared bolt replaced. How do I know the direction of the innards of the pump?

 

[shaun wallace]

That bolt may spin out with lh drillbit. If diassemble orings will need replaced, Direction of rotation is arrow on edge of center section.

 

[pfeathers]

(quoted from post at 15:13:20 10/18/21) That bolt may spin out with lh drillbit. If diassemble orings will need replaced, Direction of rotation is arrow on edge of center section.

Arrow direction on pump is correct, clockwise facing the front of the tractor. The bolt was easy, there was enough sticking out that I was able to tap it in the out direction until I could grab it with my fingernails.

The pump is leaking at the shaft so I guess I am going to tear it apart. I suspect its a noisy bearing.

This post was edited by pfeathers on 10/18/2021 at 04:54 pm.

 

[pfeathers]

I have been making some phone calls about the vickers vane pump (v210-5-1B-12 S13-LH) and the news is not good. First the pump is obsolete and the
cartridge kits as well. I can probably find bearings and seals, have not disassembled yet. According to spencerfluidpower in Kent WA, an aftermarket
pump is not available. A new vane pump would cost in excess of $600.

Has anyone else replace the pump on their Davis loader? TheOldHokie mentions going with a gear pump. Anybody done that and can supply some direction, parts etc?

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 15:28:49 10/19/21) I have been making some phone calls about the vickers vane pump (v210-5-1B-12 S13-LH) and the news is not good. First the pump is obsolete and the
cartridge kits as well. I can probably find bearings and seals, have not disassembled yet. According to spencerfluidpower in Kent WA, an aftermarket
pump is not available. A new vane pump would cost in excess of $600.

Has anyone else replace the pump on their Davis loader? TheOldHokie mentions going with a gear pump. Anybody done that and can supply some direction, parts etc?

I am not surprised by the parts situation and a big part of why I suggested just getting a new pump. I have helped people replace lots of loader pumps. Unless you need an unusually large flow rate you can get a new gear pump for $125. From there all you need do is figure out how to get it mounted in place of the old pump. What sort of shaft coupler do you currently have and what are the shaft sizes? What is the bolt pattern for the old pump? A picture of the mounting bracket would be helpful.

You will also need to ditch that ancient filter rig and install a spin on cartridge head and element. You can probably mount it right on the inlet port of the pump similar to the way the old filter was mounted.

TOH

 

[Jim WI]

A document with some dimensions. It shows flange-mounted pumps as well as others.

https://www.fluidynefp.com/LiteratureDoc.ashx?Id=142&Name=V200Series

Hmmm... They list vane and cartridge kits.

I think you can find a matching gear pump pretty easily. The important parts are: direction of rotation, pilot size (the round piece on the flange), mounting bolt spacing, shaft size and style (which can also be adapted for), and capacity (GPM). The ports where the plumbing attaches are less important as you can use adapters, but it would be best to get them to match.

My father had a 9N with a Davis loader on it. I want to say it was a model 100, but it could easily have been a 101. The original pump had been replaced with a gear pump previously, but we were able to get a replacement gear pump at Fleet Farm. ('Course, this was 30 years ago when they carried a lot more Farm stuff.)


This post was edited by Jim WI on 10/19/2021 at 05:59 pm.

 

[pfeathers]

(quoted from post at 16:56:28 10/19/21) A document with some dimensions. It shows flange-mounted pumps as well as others.

https://www.fluidynefp.com/LiteratureDoc.ashx?Id=142&Name=V200Series

Hmmm... They list vane and cartridge kits.

I think you can find a matching gear pump pretty easily. The important parts are: direction of rotation, pilot size (the round piece on the flange), mounting bolt spacing, shaft size and style (which can also be adapted for), and capacity (GPM). The ports where the plumbing attaches are less important as you can use adapters, but it would be best to get them to match.

My father had a 9N with a Davis loader on it. I want to say it was a model 100, but it could easily have been a 101. The original pump had been replaced with a gear pump previously, but we were able to get a replacement gear pump at Fleet Farm. ('Course, this was 30 years ago when they carried a lot more Farm stuff.)


This post was edited by Jim WI on 10/19/2021 at 05:59 pm.

I will call them, but not going to hold my breath. I talked to several suppliers of vickrs Eaton vane pumps and the kit for my pump is obsolete. Now they could and would sell me a new version of the vickers 210 vane but it is well over $600.

 

[pfeathers]

My pump is rated at 5 gpm. The shaft coupler is 3 inch 4
bolts. Shaft size is 3/4. Pump shaft length is 2 1/2-2 3/4, cant
tell exact. Pump mount bolts are vertical 4 1/8 center to
center. The bracket will allow me a horizontal bolt pattern. My
hydraulic pump shaft into tractor is splined 13 long. My
bracket does allow lots of wiggle room for alignment. Photos
coming.

 

[pfeathers]

 

[pfeathers]

I guess I do not need to call them as I got a reply back from Spencer Fluid Power in Kent, WA today, they tried to source a replacement for an aftermarkent pump through Fluidyne. Fluidyne says they do not have a replacement/crossover for my configuration.

So, either a new vane pump and configuration for excess of $600 or go with a new configuration for a gear pump. I am a tight wad so I guess the gear pump is looking pretty attractive.

Thanks for the lead.

 

[tugman]

Kits are available for these pump as I found two suppliers last year but they are spendy, I will try to attach the quotes....
However toh makes a good point, I've dealt with surplus center good deals
Well can't seem to attach pdf.... motion industry's and proactive fluid power are two ,450 and 350 bucks for the whole kit but there is just a seal kit ...

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 23:01:55 10/19/21) I guess I do not need to call them as I got a reply back from Spencer Fluid Power in Kent, WA today, they tried to source a replacement for an aftermarkent pump through Fluidyne. Fluidyne says they do not have a replacement/crossover for my configuration.

So, either a new vane pump and configuration for excess of $600 or go with a new configuration for a gear pump. I am a tight wad so I guess the gear pump is looking pretty attractive.

Thanks for the lead.

I checked the Davis parts manual and they used two different 2 bolt vane pumps - one was 5 GPM and the other was 8 GPM. The vane pumps were superceded with larger displacement gear pumps.

Your main issue in fitting a replacement gear pump will be the shaft coupler. The original pump has a 3/4" shaft and modern SAE-A gear pumps are 5/8" so you will need a new coupler flange to match the new pump.

If you send me the OD and bolt circle dimensions of the old flange I will send you a brand new 10 GPM gear pump and matching coupler flange ready to holt up for $175 + $15 shipping. All you will have to do is fit it to the mounting flange on the loader. I will toss in an SAE-A weld on mounting plate for the pump to help with that.

I will go out on a limb and guesstimate a partial rebuild of your old pump will be double that and I think you will be hard pressed to match let alone beat my offer.

TOH

 

[Jim WI]

You might be able to find cheaper than what TOH is offering, but it will be just that, cheap. TOH has a good reputation for his knowledge and quality. I'd go with his offer.

 

[tugman]

Yah, what Jim sez .

 

[pfeathers]

(quoted from post at 03:04:13 10/20/21) Kits are available for these pump as I found two suppliers last year but they are spendy, I will try to attach the quotes....
However toh makes a good point, I've dealt with surplus center good deals
Well can't seem to attach pdf.... motion industry's and proactive fluid power are two ,450 and 350 bucks for the whole kit but there is just a seal kit ...

Contacted both. My pump is obsolete an no parts available. Reconditioned replacement is $765.

 

[pfeathers]

TheOldHokie, is there a way to contact you off the forum?

 

[pfeathers]

Latest picture, road testing, adjusting breaks. I never would have been able to get this done without all the help and expertise on this forum. Cant thank you all enough.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 20:27:49 10/20/21)
TheOldHokie, is there a way to contact you off the forum?

Call or write. I answer my cell and prefer to talk rather than write.

[email protected]
301.655.0631 (EDT)

 

[HarryVanderpool]

That's a nice looking tractor.
Before you spend a single penny, I hope you will remove and disassemble the pump first and examine.
You'll feel kind of silly if the source of the noise is up or down stream.
Hydraulics are sometimes GREAT ventriloquists.