Vintage crawler vs Mini Ex

[veedub]

I’m dreaming on adding another piece of equipment to my property. Currently I have a small Italian articulating tractor late 80s/early 90s vintage (Pasquali) cool little tractor, stout and stable, parts and info are a bear to acquire. 1986 Case 1845c skid loader. I love this thing near bulletproof simple and robust. I used to have a Ferguson to-35 with the gas engine, I miss that tractor dead simple to work on and easy to get parts for. I traded it for a diesel Ferguson of similar vintage with a blown rear end that had been parted out to be basically just the engine and main frame. This runs my 1960s Foley Belsaw as a stationary powerplant. I also have a pair of oxen if that counts as traction equipment, they never fail to start but they use a lot of fuel even when parked.

Anyway I have been trying to find the money to buy a mini excavator probably in the 7500-10,000lb range. I have a decent amount of seat time in a mini and know them pretty well, and what a machine of this size is capable of. Most of what is putting in roads in my woods. I have done plenty of bench cuts and road building with a mini. I do have access to one belonging to a friend it’s always a hassle to get it here and he always ends up wanting it back sooner than he said he would but I do have access to it in a pinch. I also have a front hoe for the case which is limited in what it can do but for digging a small hole such as to bury a dog or for a short trench it beats the heck out of a shovel.

I have never run a crawler/dozer but since they are seemingly designed for road work I was just thinking about one as an option. I also love vintage simple machinery. I have seen several Oliver oc-4 as well as the smaller Deere crawlers available recently in my area for a fraction of what I could get a halfway decent mini for. I don’t mind tinkering in fact I enjoy it (except when equipment is down in the middle of a big job you didn’t have time for already)

The land in question is reasonably steep, quite wet, often muddy, and clay in many areas. I have about 20 acres overall. There are several old skidder roads from logging that was probably done 40 years ago. Basically tire rut roads you can follow when the leaves are off the trees. They need much improvement to be passable but it’s a basis for some of the road network. Other areas would be working from scratch. There will be lots of trees to deal with mostly under 8”-10” but some larger. I have dug and popped many stumps with a mini but never tried to pop one out with a crawler/dozer.

I want to try to dry out some of the wetter areas of the property and will be adding some swales and berms on contour. Possibly some ponds. (Ponds dont necessarily need to be dug (ie; with a mini) but could be a dam on the low side)

So the question is for what I want to do what would be the better asset to my property? How well suited is a smaller crawler like this to road building on contour on a side slope. With the mini I usually dig from the high side, drop on the low side and create a bench as I go packing with the bucket and tracks and dozering with the blade. With a crawler I’d be doing it all with the blade which in my head seems much slower and more tedious but as I have never done it I’m not sure.

On these old crawlers does the blade angle as well as tilt? That’s always the biggest drawback to me with the mini. The blade is fixed (on any machine I have ever run anyway) being able to angle it would be great but being able to tilt for crown might be even more useful.

Oh there’s also some areas I’d like to clear and convert to pasture. Leaving the larger maples but clearing most of the rest of the trees. (These are mostly smaller mixed hardwoods with a few larger ash and pines mixed in)

Someone please school me on the capability of a small vintage dozer/crawler. Thanks.

 

[Farmall m farmer]

I love old equipment and for the fun of owning a old dozer but I think a mini would be a lot better all around machine I will say a mini would be better than a Oliver o-c4 crawler but a big dozer like a d6 don’t know

 

[TomA in CA]

Take a look at the OC4. Most had commercial blades that would tilt. I had an HG (OC3) that I found quite useful. I have D4s one with angle that is a pain to tilt. One with tilt only. I seldom use the angle. I recently got a one ton mini. I like it and find it useful.

 

[rrlund]

Even the big farmers around here are finding that large excavators are more useful than a dozer. Those small dozers are pretty much useless when it comes right down to it. A neighbor always wanted one, bought one and said his narrow front Farmall M with a loader would do more work. I had a D2 Cat here briefly, I have to agree with him.

 

[Steve in VA]

I love old equipment and for the fun of owning a old dozer but I think a mini would be a lot better all around machine I will say a mini would be better than a Oliver o-c4 crawler but a big dozer like a d6 don’t know

Ah, the dilemma; the love of old iron or the advantage of evolution. I have a CAT 301.5 mini and love it. Would i take an old dozer? In a heartbeat. But, for moving dirt, I have a D3 with 6 way blade and that is a joy to run.

 

[moresmoke]

Your skidsteer will out work an OC4 or any of the green Deeres. For removing stumps with any amount of efficiency you want at least a D5 Cat or bigger equivalent. And that depends on the trees.

A set of over the tire tracks on your skid steer will give you as much productivity as an older cheap dozer for less cost. Keep in mind the undercarriage on a dozer is worth multiples of what the whole machine is. Newer dozers with a 6 way power blade let anyone operate half decent, a manual blade takes years of experience to master and not spend all your time fiddling with adjustments.

I have a Deere 40C, I keep it because it was my grandfather’s. Its primary purpose is to push up the burn pile since I don’t have to worry about nails. I use it occasionally to level ground, but all the heavy work is done with my loader backhoe. And I was lucky that the undercarriage was nearly new when retired. I’m also lucky that my other grandfather taught me how to run a dozer. He learned building airfields during WW2 with a D8.

 

[marloweg]

old dozers are a money pit and John Deere is at the top of the list get a mini

 

[Mcrafty1]

I have a Cat 307 which is not really a mini and not really a full size, They call it a Midi, it has a straight blade It weighs 17,000ibs without the thumb which I added on, so around 18,000lbs. I also have a JD450E dozer with a 6 way blade. I do earthwork commercially, mostly residential and camp lots/ driveways. The excavator is used everyday, it does everything the full size ex's do (within reason) albeit not as fast. It will run circles around a dozer for my type of work. Handling trees/removing the stumps it shines. If you will be moving many stumps and use a dozer you'll want at least a 650 Deere size machine. JMHO

 

[JOCCO]

Others are correct and some small excavators have a blade. Research carefully and do not get one that is to small. I would add today pass by back hoes or tractor mounted ones.

 

[JOCCO]

I have a Cat 307 which is not really a mini and not really a full size, They call it a Midi, it has a straight blade It weighs 17,000ibs without the thumb which I added on, so around 18,000lbs. I also have a JD450E dozer with a 6 way blade. I do earthwork commercially, mostly residential and camp lots/ driveways. The excavator is used everyday, it does everything the full size ex's do (within reason) albeit not as fast. It will run circles around a dozer for my type of work. Handling trees/removing the stumps it shines. If you will be moving many stumps and use a dozer you'll want at least a 650 Deere size machine. JMHO

307 are popular seems like nice machine.

 

[JOCCO]

Even the big farmers around here are finding that large excavators are more useful than a dozer. Those small dozers are pretty much useless when it comes right down to it. A neighbor always wanted one, bought one and said his narrow front Farmall M with a loader would do more work. I had a D2 Cat here briefly, I have to agree with him.

I think times have changed and so has techniques. SO HAS THE EQUIPMENT! Yes dozers are on there way out for the most part.

 

[veedub]

Thanks for talking me back to earth guys. I’ll keep saving for the mini and maybe some day I’ll add one of the little micro crawler dozers to my fleet just because I have always wanted one but understanding their limitations. I have never run a mini without a (fixed straight) dozer blade but I wouldn’t get out without one I can’t imagine how much less capable of a machine they would be with only a bucket. I wouldn’t want one without a thumb either but that’s easy enough to add.

Someone (moresmoke) suggested OTT for the skid steer saying it would work circles around the little crawler. I did have a set of those on for a while. I wore through them and have since gone to 4 tire chains. In the slick snotty clay mud the tracks were pretty great though. They are hell on the grass and even on the gravel roads and gravel driveway or basically anywhere other than a full construction site. They weren’t exactly quick and easy to pop on or off either if I wanted to do something on a surface I was trying not to ruin. But I suppose a small dozer is probably just as hard on the ground.The real problem I found with the skid loader even with the OTT is the ground clearance is so low. It belly’s out very easy in the deep stuff.

 

[NoDakInMN]

The vintage crawlers may be half the price of a mini excavator, but what is the condition of the undercarriages? You will want one with those in good shape for your planned use. Most likely the ones you are looking at are worn, but fine for minor piddling around now and then, but your needs exceed that. Any tree that that a small dozer could take out would be probably removed far more easily with a mini excavator with a thumb attachment.

I get the idea of wanting a vintage crawler, I want one too for my place, but for pushing small amounts of dirt around and for use on some snow removal when things get icy. But I think as much fun as you might have with one, the downsides would quickly have you looking at a mini excavator again. Might as well do it right the first time and get a vintage crawler later if you still want one.

 

[Mcrafty1]

307 are popular seems like nice machine.

Easy to move around yet plenty capable to do most average earth work, great for septic work with a blade, no need to have a dozer on site. Providing that is as long as you have the tanks delivered with a boom truck to set them. At least around here, tanks are usually concrete and monolithic so they weigh about 4 to 4.5 tons, a bit too much for the 307.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

The skidsteer you have is more capable than the mini dozer would be. I would think if you can borrow the mini for any periods of time I’d save the money and use the skidsteer for most of it

Once it’s built and you are onto maintaining with a drag then the little 2 cylinder or Oliver becomes a fun option especially if there’s a first snow they are about perfect they have some weight and won’t tear up the ground.

 

[504]

I was talking to a contractor about moving dirt one day. He used to rent dozer and decided it was a lot cheaper to just hire it out. No moving, no break downs, he keeps his Bob Cat running. I think I get more done at the end of the day with the mini than the dozer. I can borrow a mini but I just need to be ready when it’s available and not when I want it. But free is free. And it has heating and air

 

[JOCCO]

Easy to move around yet plenty capable to do most average earth work, great for septic work with a blade, no need to have a dozer on site. Providing that is as long as you have the tanks delivered with a boom truck to set them. At least around here, tanks are usually concrete and monolithic so they weigh about 4 to 4.5 tons, a bit too much for the 307.

Yes sir but I have had great luck with 992 Deere Kobelco 320 etc! A 400 class is nice too

 

[JOCCO]

Thanks for talking me back to earth guys. I’ll keep saving for the mini and maybe some day I’ll add one of the little micro crawler dozers to my fleet just because I have always wanted one but understanding their limitations. I have never run a mini without a (fixed straight) dozer blade but I wouldn’t get out without one I can’t imagine how much less capable of a machine they would be with only a bucket. I wouldn’t want one without a thumb either but that’s easy enough to add.

Someone (moresmoke) suggested OTT for the skid steer saying it would work circles around the little crawler. I did have a set of those on for a while. I wore through them and have since gone to 4 tire chains. In the slick snotty clay mud the tracks were pretty great though. They are hell on the grass and even on the gravel roads and gravel driveway or basically anywhere other than a full construction site. They weren’t exactly quick and easy to pop on or off either if I wanted to do something on a surface I was trying not to ruin. But I suppose a small dozer is probably just as hard on the ground.The real problem I found with the skid loader even with the OTT is the ground clearance is so low. It belly’s out very easy in the deep stuff.

I am not reading everything in detail but if its going to your property and stay there you might get a little bigger one like deere 70 or 190 Kobelco 100 size. They will eat those minnies.

 

[Steven Allen]

Even the big farmers around here are finding that large excavators are more useful than a dozer. Those small dozers are pretty much useless when it comes right down to it. A neighbor always wanted one, bought one and said his narrow front Farmall M with a loader would do more work. I had a D2 Cat here briefly, I have to agree with him.

Amazing how much work was done with those useless dozers. Too bad those outfits that used them weren't aware that the dozers were incapable of any work.

 

[rrlund]

Amazing how much work was done with those useless dozers. Too bad those outfits that used them weren't aware that the dozers were incapable of any work.

A mule that could pull a quarter mile of barbed wire through tall grass was pretty impressive too.